The American Conservative Goes All-Out Crazy in Its Denunciation of Judge Napolitano

[Coolidge/Dawes '24]

I know plenty of Catholics who disagree with the Pope.

Judge Napolitano, Adam Shaw, and Reverend Robert Sirico of the Acton Institute are most certainly among them.

 

[Christian Liberty]

Why would a website called "The American Conservative" have a socialist columnist who advocates socialist/big government principles in his editorials? That just seems completely ridiculous. I wish there were an actual paleo-conservative group on the internet.

LewRockwell.com has some paleocons, although I think most of the people who post there are market anarchists. There's also, of course, tons of stuff by Ron Paul, who is libertarian but not anarchist.

What does a personal statement by the Pope have to do with the infallibility of the Church when it comes to the Faith?

It doesn't. The thing is though, the Catholic Church doesn't say that he's wrong. The Catholic Church, to my understanding, holds that taxation is legitimate. Am I wrong about this point? Does the Catholic Church condemn taxation?

And how is taxation NOT a moral issue?

Perhaps because the Pope said nothing about taxation? Or because the Pope didn't actually denounce capitalism, but instead was talking about consumerism and corruption?

I don't think Judge Napolitano has anything against the Catholic Church, being Catholic. I'd tend to trust him on these lines.

 

[Brett85]

They already deleted my first comment. We'll see if they delete my second comment. This group is just a joke. This group is just going to make anyone who supports a non interventionist foreign policy look like a liberal/progressive.

 

[Coolidge/Dawes '24]

They already deleted my first comment. We'll see if they delete my second comment. This group is just a joke. This group is just going to make anyone who supports a non interventionist foreign policy look like a liberal/progressive.

Seriously? If that's the case, I think I'm officially done with The American Conservative. If you're looking for a reliable paleoconservative website that also publishes the likes of Pat Buchanan, I would suggest VDARE. Lew Rockwell's publication is also pretty solid, though they're sometimes too capricious even for my tastes (in the sense of alliances, not necessarily the substance of their arguments). I really like the Ron Paul Institute and TomWoods.com, as well. Oh, and don't forget Chronicles. They're awesome!

 

[Christian Liberty]

LRC has a lot of different contributers. I'll never agree with everybody on everything, but I agree with most of what I read there.

 

[Brett85]

Seriously? If that's the case, I think I'm officially done with The American Conservative. If you're looking for a reliable paleoconservative website that also publishes the likes of Pat Buchanan, I would suggest VDARE. Lew Rockwell's publication is also pretty solid, though they're sometimes too capricious even for my tastes (in the sense of alliances, not necessarily the substance of their arguments). I really like the Ron Paul Institute and TomWoods.com, as well. Oh, and don't forget Chronicles. They're awesome!

Groups like Cato and Reason get criticized a lot by people here, but even on those sites you would never read an article like this.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

The fact that theft apparently isn't an issue of "faith and morals" is yet more proof the RCC is not the "One True Church."

Mind you, my church doesn't get this right either, so I'm not saying that this absolutely discredits them as a "legitimate" church (I discount them as such for other reasons.) But the fact of the matter is, this is proof that they are not infallible. This was a blatant mistake right there. As smart as he is, I'm somewhat surprised that Judge Napolitano hasn't thought about this. Or maybe he has.

Although Catholics believe in Papal Infallibility (incorrectly, IMO), I'm not sure that poor judgement by a particular pope makes or breaks the Church. It certainly doesn't invalidate the RCC as a True Faith.

As eduardo pointed out (I just noticed), the pope was talking about fascism, corporatism, and variants of these when he said "unfettered capitalism". He was absolutely correct, too. RP and most libertarians oppose this sort of "unfettered capitalism". Remember, laissez-faire is not libertinism.

 

[angelatc]

I still haz sugarz...just in moderation, at the right times, and in conjunction with lots of dietary fiber. (I am love dark chocolate!...Fruitcake is nom nom )

OMG - someone else who likes fruitcake? And not the kind that comes in a can from the department store, either....

 

[angelatc]

Groups like Cato and Reason get criticized a lot by people here, but even on those sites you would never read an article like this.

No but there we get to read what a nutter than Ron Paul is.

 

[Ender]

Although Catholics believe in Papal Infallibility (incorrectly, IMO), I'm not sure that poor judgement by a particular pope makes or breaks the Church. It certainly doesn't invalidate the RCC as a True Faith.

As eduardo pointed out (I just noticed), the pope was talking about fascism, corporatism, and variants of these when he said "unfettered capitalism". He was absolutely correct, too. RP and most libertarians oppose this sort of "unfettered capitalism". Remember, laissez-faire is not libertinism.

Exactly.

Also- most leaders of various churches believe in an altruistic state where we actually live the 2 Great Commandments:

Love God with all your might, mind and strength; Love your brother as yourself.

Many "conservatives" like to translate this to marxism/communism/whateverism- but it is none of these. It is a call to live on a higher plain and to do good all of one's days.

 

[Brett85]

Really, I didn't realize how bad this website was until today. This is an actual comment on this article, a comment that someone wrote on a "conservative" website.

"Thank You Very Much Patrick Deneen!

What American Catholics are suffering from, in their rejection of the Church’s social teaching on the evil of rabid capitalism, is a disease inflicted upon them by the late William F. Buckley when he and National Review rejected Pope John XXIII’s encyclical Mater et Magistra. Six years before “dissent” became a disease of the left with the rejection of Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae, Buckley institutionalized dissent among so-called “conservative Catholics” who followed Buckley into believing that the Pope has no business talking about economic matters.

Buckley, the old CIA operative, knew what he was doing when he divided Catholics in this country: divide and conquer. His legacy is as enduring as it is shameful. When there really was a “Catholic moment” in this country, he derailed it."

 

[heavenlyboy34]

OMG - someone else who likes fruitcake? And not the kind that comes in a can from the department store, either....

Yay, fruitcake! I suspect that people who say they don't like it have only tried badly made cakes.

 

[Brett85]

I've posted articles from "The American Conservative" on my Facebook page in the past, but I won't be doing that again in the future. This group engages in false advertising.

 

[Ronin Truth]

Yay, fruitcake! I suspect that people who say they don't like it have only tried badly made cakes.

My family trades the same canned fruit cake back and forth for Christmas for decades. It is so well preserved it will last forever.

 

[Coolidge/Dawes '24]

Really, I didn't realize how bad this website was until today. This is an actual comment on this article, a comment that someone wrote on a "conservative" website.

"Thank You Very Much Patrick Deneen!

What American Catholics are suffering from, in their rejection of the Church’s social teaching on the evil of rabid capitalism..."

I'm not usually a vulgar person but.. what the flying fuck.

 

[Coolidge/Dawes '24]

Sorry for the duplicate. >.<

 

[Lucille]

Although Catholics believe in Papal Infallibility (incorrectly, IMO), I'm not sure that poor judgement by a particular pope makes or breaks the Church. It certainly doesn't invalidate the RCC as a True Faith.

As eduardo pointed out (I just noticed), the pope was talking about fascism, corporatism, and variants of these when he said "unfettered capitalism". He was absolutely correct, too. RP and most libertarians oppose this sort of "unfettered capitalism". Remember, laissez-faire is not libertinism.

Then he should have said fascism or corporatism or even crony capitalism rather than "unfettered capitalism," because they are not the same thing.

AmConMag is going to hell. They certainly have more prog commenters than conservatives. They refused to put one of my posts up last week, probably because I use proper terminology (fascism), unlike Pope Frank.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I don't know. For the record, I wasn't trying to bring up the sola fide (The doctrine) debate again, we have plenty of threads we can do that, at this point.

But to me this is a very clear mistake on the part of the Catholic Church. I know they don't think the Pope is always infallible, but they think he can be on issues of "faith and morals." Yet, conveniently, they say taxes aren't a moral issue. The Bible, however, makes no exceptions to its "Thou shall not steal" command.

Now, this isn't a salvation issue either, so I'm not saying a true church (small c) couldn't get this wrong. I don't think a single person in my church agrees with me on this... I might have half-agreement from a few people, but I don't think a single person completely agrees with me on it. I still view it as a true church, albeit flawed. But my church doesn't claim to be the one true church, or infallible in any circumstance. Hence the difference.

Does the EO church condemn ALL theft, including taxation?

The Eastern Church condemns all theft. WRT taxation, we only accept this insofar as it serves ti glorify God-in practice, this is never (priests don't like to talk about politics in my experience, so I have to refer to Orthodox reference books on this).

In Matthew 9, Jesus calls tax collectors sinners who need to repent, which Orthdox agree with. I consider this a condemnation of taxation as theft (and the footnotes in my bible seem to verify this), but I have to dig up some more articles/essays for you. Gtg for now, but I'll get back to this later.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Then he should have said fascism or corporatism or even crony capitalism rather than "unfettered capitalism," because they are not the same thing.

AmConMag is going to hell. They certainly have more prog commenters than conservatives. They refused to put one of my posts up last week, probably because I use proper terminology (fascism), unlike Pope Frank.

I agree, but I don't think the pope specializes in modern economic and political theory. /shrugs

 

[angelatc]

Really, I didn't realize how bad this website was until today. This is an actual comment on this article, a comment that someone wrote on a "conservative" website.

"Thank You Very Much Patrick Deneen!

What American Catholics are suffering from, in their rejection of the Church’s social teaching on the evil of rabid capitalism, is a disease inflicted upon them by the late William F. Buckley when he and National Review rejected Pope John XXIII’s encyclical Mater et Magistra. Six years before “dissent” became a disease of the left with the rejection of Paul VI’s Humanae Vitae, Buckley institutionalized dissent among so-called “conservative Catholics” who followed Buckley into believing that the Pope has no business talking about economic matters.

Buckley, the old CIA operative, knew what he was doing when he divided Catholics in this country: divide and conquer. His legacy is as enduring as it is shameful. When there really was a “Catholic moment” in this country, he derailed it."

They have a large number of liberals who post in their comment section. I wouldn't let the comments get to you too much if you can help it.