Thanks Anti-Vaxxers. You Just Brought The Measles Back to NYC.

[Deborah K]

Herd immunity?

How does that protect people who are already vaccinated? If the goal is to vaccinate everyone, herd immunity doesn't apply. Or does it?

Herd immunity (or community immunity) describes a form of immunity that occurs when the vaccination of a significant portion of a population (or herd) provides a measure of protection for individuals who have not developed immunity.[1]

 

[angelatc]

Why would the vaxxers care anyway?

Measles is a prime example of why herd immunity from vaccines is important - kids don't get this vaccine until they're around year of age. So an important part of herd immunity is that it serves to protect the most vulnerable - the unvaccinated infants - from the disease.

Whooping cough is another example. In fact, pretty much the entire reason that the whooping cough vaccine is so important in older kids is because the disease is so deadly in infants who need a series of vaccines before they're protected.

Of course there are people with allergies to the vaccines who can't get opt in and they also depend heavily on the kindness of strangers who care enough not to spread diseases around. And vaccines aren't 100% effective, so as the vaccine rate falls the number of vaccinated people getting the disease will rise.

 

[pcosmar]

Herd immunity?

Fine if you are kept animals.

I find that Elitist concept rather insulting.

 

[donnay]

Donnay, I think there are way too many mandatory vaccinations today. But, telling people they shouldn't get immunizations like polio shots and other basic ones is quite simply, nuts. Sorry, that's the way I see it.

LE, let me make something very clear. I am not telling people to do anything but educate before they vaccinate. Vaccines, in theory, made good scientific sense, but today, just looking at the ingredients, a layman can figure out that many of the ingredients are dangerous all by themselves. To allow and influx of toxics in children whose organs are not fully developed bars criminality, IMHO.

Vaccine injury is a real thing. One must do their research and weigh the issues. The fearmongering and pressures come from the CDC, FDA and the Big pHARMa. Just as every American needs to exercise and assert their rights when government consistently tramples on them, so is your right to your own body and your children well being. By acquiescing to the fearmongering and pressures, by the establishment, we continually lose our rights over our own health and our children's health. I am not willing to sacrifice my children to a host of toxins that is my personal decision based on my research.

 

[Deborah K]

I'm an anti-vaxxer. Not because I don't believe the science, because I do. I don't like all the crap they put in to preserve the vaccines, due to having to produce them en masse. And some kids DO get reactions. One of my children suffered greatly from the pertussis vaccine and had to stop the series.

And I'd like to see some evidence that the freedom movement is reflecting badly on the GOP where this is concerned.

 

[donnay]

Herd immunity?

The term herd immunity is tossed about as if it had been proven to work. But it hasn’t. The fact is that herd immunity has never been more than a concept—an idea that sounds good, but has little basis in reality.

The figures tossed around for how many must be vaccinated for herd immunity to take effect have never been established. Now and again, attempts are made to establish a figure using statistics and math. However, no amount of math or statistical manipulation can add up to a valid figure when all that underlies the calculations is assumptions. The intention of those pressing the idea of herd immunity becomes quite clear as you note that the percentage being quoted has grown larger and larger with time, now often approaching 100%, but with no accompanying explanation.

http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/20...ehind-herd-immunity-and-an-extension-to-gmos/

Is Herd Immunity Real?

In the original description of herd immunity, the protection to the population at large occurred only if people contracted the infections naturally. The reason for this is that naturally-acquired immunity lasts for a lifetime. The vaccine proponents quickly latched onto this concept and applied it to vaccine-induced immunity. But, there was one major problem – vaccine-induced immunity lasted for only a relatively short period, from 2 to 10 years at most, and then this applies only to humoral immunity. This is why they began, silently, to suggest boosters for most vaccines, even the common childhood infections such as chickenpox, measles, mumps, and rubella.

Then they discovered an even greater problem, the boosters were lasting for only 2 years or less. This is why we are now seeing mandates that youth entering colleges have multiple vaccines, even those which they insisted gave lifelong immunity, such as the MMR. The same is being suggested for full-grown adults. Ironically, no one in the media or medical field is asking what is going on. They just accept that it must be done.

That vaccine-induced herd immunity is mostly myth can be proven quite simply. When I was in medical school, we were taught that all of the childhood vaccines lasted a lifetime. This thinking existed for over 70 years. It was not until relatively recently that it was discovered that most of these vaccines lost their effectiveness 2 to 10 years after being given. What this means is that at least half the population, that is the baby boomers, have had no vaccine-induced immunity against any of these diseases for which they had been vaccinated very early in life. In essence, at least 50% or more of the population was unprotected for decades.

If we listen to present-day wisdom, we are all at risk of resurgent massive epidemics should the vaccination rate fall below 95%. Yet, we have all lived for at least 30 to 40 years with 50% or less of the population having vaccine protection. That is, herd immunity has not existed in this country for many decades and no resurgent epidemics have occurred. Vaccine-induced herd immunity is a lie used to frighten doctors, public-health officials, other medical personnel, and the public into accepting vaccinations.

When we examine the scientific literature, we find that for many of the vaccines protective immunity was 30 to 40%, meaning that 70% to 60% of the public has been without vaccine protection. Again, this would mean that with a 30% to 40% vaccine-effectiveness rate combined with the fact that most people lost their immune protection within 2 to 10 year of being vaccinated, most of us were without the magical 95% number needed for herd immunity. This is why vaccine defenders insist the vaccines have 95% effectiveness rates. Without the mantra of herd immunity, these public-health officials would not be able to justify forced mass vaccinations. I usually give the physicians who question my statement that herd immunity is a myth a simple example. When I was a medical student almost 40 years ago, it was taught that the tetanus vaccine would last a lifetime. Then 30 years after it had been mandated, we discovered that its protection lasted no more than 10 years. Then, I ask my doubting physician if he or she has ever seen a case of tetanus? Most have not. I then tell them to look at the yearly data on tetanus infections – one sees no rise in tetanus cases. The same can be said for measles, mumps, and other childhood infections. It was, and still is, all a myth.

The entire case for forced mass vaccination rest upon this myth and it is important that we demonstrate the falsity of this idea. Neil Z. Miller, in his latest book The Vaccine Information Manual, provides compelling evidence that herd immunity is a myth.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...-by-dr-russell-blaylock/#sthash.l3WBaSHM.dpuf

“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...-suzanne-humphries-md-3/#sthash.ERxYC1PF.dpuf

 

[angelatc]

I'm an anti-vaxxer. Not because I don't believe the science, because I do. I don't like all the crap they put in to preserve the vaccines, due to having to produce them en masse.

Well, the arm-to-arm method spreads syphilis, so I'm not sure how you think they should be produced.

I think that's what we call cognitive dissonance then. http://www.scientificamerican.com/a...g-in-heels-even-after-receiving-medical-info/

And some kids DO get reactions. One of my children suffered greatly from the pertussis vaccine and had to stop the series.

Which is why herd immunity is important. Because we don't have mandatory vaccines, you were able to stop the series without special permission from the government. Those days are rapidly coming to an end, I'm afraid.

And I'd like to see some evidence that the freedom movement is reflecting badly on the GOP where this is concerned.

The fact that the anti-vaxxers are tying themselves to the freedom movement, you mean? What evidence would you accept?

 

[angelatc]

Fine if you are kept animals.

I find that Elitist concept rather insulting.

Ok, I move that from now on we all call it "Community Immunity" so nobody avoids addressing the concept by feigning insult over being reminded that humans are actually nothing more than an intelligent species of carbon based life forms.

 

[thoughtomator]

In pure numbers, the count of people who got the vaccine but were not effectively vaccinated as a result dwarf the number of people who didn't get the vaccine at all.

So... if you're casting blame, cast it at the vaccine makers and those who administer them, because they've done a shit job.

 

[LibertyEagle]

http://gaia-health.com/gaia-blog/20...ehind-herd-immunity-and-an-extension-to-gmos/


http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...-by-dr-russell-blaylock/#sthash.l3WBaSHM.dpuf

“Herd Immunity.” The flawed science and failures of mass vaccination
http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...-suzanne-humphries-md-3/#sthash.ERxYC1PF.dpuf

Donnay, I find your sources questionable. Sorry.

 

[jkr]

stick it in your own arm

ill be sticking NOTHING in mine

 

[LibertyEagle]

I'm an anti-vaxxer. Not because I don't believe the science, because I do. I don't like all the crap they put in to preserve the vaccines, due to having to produce them en masse. And some kids DO get reactions. One of my children suffered greatly from the pertussis vaccine and had to stop the series.

Yeah, me neither, and because so many people complained, and rightly so, it's my understanding that they no longer use thimerosal as a preservative in the majority of vaccines. Even with pets you have a choice. You can pay more for the vaccine and get one without thimerosal.

And I'd like to see some evidence that the freedom movement is reflecting badly on the GOP where this is concerned.

I guess it's just like any other agenda that is tied to the liberty movement. Whether that be 9-11 Trutherism, Constitution-hating, flag burning, America-hating, etc. To the extent that those types of things get stuck to the liberty movement, you have to know it reflects on it. Now, you will have to decide whether that is a good thing or a bad thing. I know what I think.

 

[donnay]

Donnay, I find your sources questionable. Sorry.

Well LE I don't know what to tell you than to do your own research.

The Vaccine Council this is their board of directors"

Board of Directors

Mayer Eisenstein, MD, JD, MPH
Suzanne Humphries, MD
Sherri Tenpenny, DO



Board of Advisors

Alexander Kotok, MD, PhD
Demetra Vagias, MD, ND
Harold Buttram, MD
Jayne Donegan, MBBS
Juan Manuel Martinez Mendez, MD
Kris Gaublomme, MD
Robert Davidson, MD, PhD



Director
Nick Haas


- See more at: http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/about/#sthash.MlL6f8pd.dpuf


Dr. Blaylock is a retired neurosurgeon.

 

[Cap]

So, the Pro-Vaxxer's position is "for the children". Sounds like an argument the O administration might make.

 

[pcosmar]

Ok, I move that from now on we all call it "Community Immunity" so nobody avoids addressing the concept by feigning insult over being reminded that humans are actually nothing more than an intelligent species of carbon based life forms.

I disagree. Emphatically.

Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,[a] and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”
So God created mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

 

[Tod]

A much bigger problem than people getting vaccines or not, is the problem that people think they can or should be able to force others to do what they want.

 

[juleswin]

Measles is a prime example of why herd immunity from vaccines is important - kids don't get this vaccine until they're around year of age. So an important part of herd immunity is that it serves to protect the most vulnerable - the unvaccinated infants - from the disease.

Whooping cough is another example. In fact, pretty much the entire reason that the whooping cough vaccine is so important in older kids is because the disease is so deadly in infants who need a series of vaccines before they're protected.

Of course there are people with allergies to the vaccines who can't get opt in and they also depend heavily on the kindness of strangers who care enough not to spread diseases around. And vaccines aren't 100% effective, so as the vaccine rate falls the number of vaccinated people getting the disease will rise.

Just going to say that the theory of herd immunity doesn't say that nobody will be infected once the herd immunity threshold has been reached, it just says that when there is an outbreak, that the outbreak will be contained and not lead to a pandemic or worse. Even with the problems I have with herd immunity, there is no evidence that the outbreak wasn't contained and herd immunity did not protect vulnerable portion of the community.

I truly think this will just make more people lose confidence in the effectiveness of vaccines. People should stop crying wolf every single time there is a small outbreak.

 

[Icymudpuppy]

Living in an urban ant colony is a poor survival choice. You are the first to die when plagues hit. You are the first to starve in famine. You are the first to be slaughtered wholesale in war.

Urban living is an evolutionary dead end, and tyranny consistently comes from urban centers. I am personally pleased to see the ant people dying.

 

[IBleedNavyAndOrange]

Donnay, I think there are way too many mandatory vaccinations today. But, telling people they shouldn't get immunizations like polio shots and other basic ones is quite simply, nuts. Sorry, that's the way I see it.

"How does polio spread?

Poliovirus is very contagious. The virus lives in an infected person’s throat and intestines. It spreads through contact with the feces (stool) of an infected person and through droplets from a sneeze or cough. You can get infected with polio if you have stool on your hands and you touch your mouth. Also, if you put objects, like toys, that have stool on them into your mouth, you/your baby can get infected.

An infected person may spread the virus to others immediately before and usually 1 to 2 weeks after developing symptoms.*The virus may live in an infected person’s feces for many weeks. It can contaminate food and water when people do not wash their hands."


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/fs-parents.html



It seems to me, the best way to avoid polio is to stay away from other peoples feces.

Now if I could just find the graph of polio infection going down for years, cut off that part, insert an arrow of the polio vaccine being introduced, and fail to mention the definition being changed at the same time, I could probably convince many that the magic shot saved the world.

 

[Zippyjuan]

"How does polio spread?

Poliovirus is very contagious. The virus lives in an infected person’s throat and intestines. It spreads through contact with the feces (stool) of an infected person and through droplets from a sneeze or cough. You can get infected with polio if you have stool on your hands and you touch your mouth. Also, if you put objects, like toys, that have stool on them into your mouth, you/your baby can get infected.

An infected person may spread the virus to others immediately before and usually 1 to 2 weeks after developing symptoms.*The virus may live in an infected person’s feces for many weeks. It can contaminate food and water when people do not wash their hands."


http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/polio/fs-parents.html



It seems to me, the best way to avoid polio is to stay away from other peoples feces.

Now if I could just find the graph of polio infection going down for years, cut off that part, insert an arrow of the polio vaccine being introduced, and fail to mention the definition being changed at the same time, I could probably convince many that the magic shot saved the world.

Not just you. You need everybody not to touch their own or other feces too since once they touch it, they can be a carrier and deposit the virus on surfaces they touch. Desks, doorknobs, stair rails, everything.

Oh yeah - don't breath air near anybody either. From your own post:

and through droplets from a sneeze or cough.

That can linger in the air for a long time after the person passes so just don't go where any people have gone, don't touch anything anybody else has touched- including food, breath any air, and don't touch your own poop (even accidentally)-and may be you will be safe. Or get vaccinated.