Teenager killed by neighborhood watch captain

[truelies]

and in that case an eye will be kept on you until a regular cop arrives and if in the interval you choose to become violent you might well find that you have made a life altering mistake.

 

[smhbbag]

http://www.sanfordfl.gov/investigation/docs/Zimmerman_Martin_shooting.pdf

 

[Gary4Liberty]

Yeah, now people are complaining that the police are not tyrannical or incriminating enough :/

They must be friends. Its the only way that expalins why he isnt in jail.

 

[BlackTerrel]

No, your motivations are irrelevant when they're YOUR motivations, if I had any, you'd not take it nicely.

As if it's shocking to anybody that ghettos regularly tolerate gangsters shooting innocent children and nobody even calls the police, "snitching" is frowned on and a crime on its own (thanks to self government and localization). It's nice of you to agree it's fucked up if the races were reversed, sadly most Americans do not.

What?? Most Americans think it is ok for a guy to kill an unarmed teenager because of race? Bullshit. Maybe 1% of Americans think that - not most. Maybe a lot of the Florida PD are part of that 1%.

The police obviously have proof that the man was justified in shooting Trayvon or he would be in jail. The police look for any reason whatsoever to lock someone up and extort money from them. They must have DNA evidence or something showing that Trayvon attacked the guy before he got shot by him.

Bullshit. Why did they take his word for it on the scene? Did they already have DNA evidence then? This case is a supreme fuckup by all involved.

 

[BlackTerrel]

 

[RonPaulMall]

Bullshit. Why did they take his word for it on the scene? Did they already have DNA evidence then? This case is a supreme fuckup by all involved.

Police came upon a dead body. The protocol in such a situation is not to arrest everybody within earshot of the body, but rather, to conduct an investigation to see if a crime was committed. The shooter reported to them his version of events, which if true would have indicated no crime was committed. The physical evidence and all other witnesses were consistent with the shooter's story. It is not an issue of "taking his word for it". He was the only eyewitness to the shooting. His testimony is the most crucial piece of evidence they have. Of course they are going to consider it when trying to determine what happened.

And Will Smith's analogy is a perfect example of the kind of knee jerk, unthinking analysis surrounding this case. Throwing flour on somebody is a crime. Killing someone who attacks you is not.

 

[kylejack]

He was stalking Martin after being told by the 911 dispatcher not to. He got out of his truck and followed Martin down the footpath behind the townhomes. Trayvon said "Why are you following me?" and Zimmerman replied, "Why are you here?" Then there was an altercation, someone yelling for help, and the shooting.

Zimmerman was arrested for an altercation with a police officer previously, though the charge was dropped. Zimmerman also had a restraining order taken out against him for domestic violence. Zimmerman called police 46 times since January 2011 to report suspicious activity or other things, including one time he called to report a "suspicious 7-9 year old black male."

On the 911 call for Martin, Zimmerman is heard saying, "fucking coons."

 

[RonPaulMall]

He was stalking Martin after being told by the 911 dispatcher not to.

Totally False. He was following him on a public street, which is perfectly legal. The 911 dispatcher has no authority to tell Zimmerman who he can or can not follow, and nmore to the point, never did tell him anything of the sort. Dispatcher told Zimmerman, "we don't need you" to follow Martin. As there had been a string of unsolved robberies in the area the police had done nothing to stop, we can hardly be surprised Zimmerman would be skeptical of the police force's claims of needing no assistance.

He got out of his truck and followed Martin down the footpath behind the townhomes. Trayvon said "Why are you following me?" and Zimmerman replied, "Why are you here?" Then there was an altercation, someone yelling for help, and the shooting.

This seems is true for the most part. Though you omit the part where Zimmerman claims Martin initiated the assault and witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him, and Zimmerman's own wounds consistent with his story.

Zimmerman was arrested for an altercation with a police officer previously, though the charge was dropped.

If the charges were dropped, more likely the police officer was in the wrong. Legit altercations with cops are rarely dismissed. On the flip side, everyone on this forum is familiar with the way police routinely abuse the "resisting arrest", "hindering an investigation" and "assaulting a police officer" charges. Restraining order absent any details tells us nothing.

Zimmerman called police 46 times since January 2011 to report suspicious activity or other things, including one time he called to report a "suspicious 7-9 year old black male."

As the neighborhood watch captain of a high crime area, this is surprising? And the fact he's been doing this work for so long without incident tends to support the idea he wouldn't go randomly attacking a kid in the street.

On the 911 call for Martin, Zimmerman is heard saying, "fucking coons."

Heard by whom? Al Sharpton? The 9/11 tape is inaudible at that point, and never in a million years would any sane, objective person interpret the garbled comment to be "fucking coons". "Fucking punks" is what it sounds most like.

 

[kylejack]

This seems is true for the most part. Though you omit the part where Zimmerman claims Martin initiated the assault and witness who saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him, and Zimmerman's own wounds consistent with his story.

That's because Zimmerman's story doesn't parse. He claimed he got out of his truck to look at a street sign and that's when Martin attacked him. Yet that's impossible, because the altercation happened on the footpath, behind the townhomes (as reported by the other 911 calls).

 

[RonPaulMall]

That's because Zimmerman's story doesn't parse. He claimed he got out of his truck to look at a street sign and that's when Martin attacked him. Yet that's impossible, because the altercation happened on the footpath, behind the townhomes (as reported by the other 911 calls).

You are taking a police spokesman's paraphrasing of something Zimmerman said out of context and twisting it to fit your preconceived notions. Do you honestly think Zimmerman told the police he got out of the car to look at a sign and was immediately attacked by Martin and that's where they fought and where he shot Martin? You believe that's what he said despite the body and fight area not being next to his car? Zimmerman likely cited looking at the street sign as his rationale for getting out of the car. Then maybe while looking at the street sign he spots Martin again on the footpath. He approaches him to ask him some questions and that's when he got assaulted. The police officer was paraphrasing and summarizing. Zimmerman got of the car to check for a sign, and it was while he was out of the car that he claims he was assaulted. Just because the entirety of Zimmerman's account of the events leading up to the fight were omitted doesn't mean you can act like they weren't provided. Common sense requires us to assume they exist.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Totally False. He was following him on a public street, which is perfectly legal. The 911 dispatcher has no authority to tell Zimmerman who he can or can not follow, and more to the point, never did tell him anything of the sort. Dispatcher told Zimmerman, "we don't need you" to follow Martin. As there had been a string of unsolved robberies in the area the police had done nothing to stop, we can hardly be surprised Zimmerman would be skeptical of the police force's claims of needing no assistance.

Now you are onto something. You don't form a neighborhood watch because there is no crime. Stupid mundanes, lock yourselves in your houses where you belong and let the professionals handle things.

 

[MelissaWV]

Know what would have been weird? If someone else on Neighborhood Watch had noticed some pudgy Latino-looking dude driving slowly around in the night, apparently following some kid in a hoodie, and dialed 9-1-1, then gone out to investigate, seen him getting out of his SUV and poking around in the neighborhood, and yelled "HEY! WTF ARE YOU DOING?", prompting Zimmerman to draw his weapon, at which point the concerned citizen wound up shooting Zimmerman for creeping.

Maybe then we'd have threads popping up going "Zimmerman looked suspicious; he has an earring."

 

[BlackTerrel]

Police came upon a dead body. The protocol in such a situation is not to arrest everybody within earshot of the body, but rather, to conduct an investigation to see if a crime was committed. The shooter reported to them his version of events, which if true would have indicated no crime was committed. The physical evidence and all other witnesses were consistent with the shooter's story. It is not an issue of "taking his word for it". He was the only eyewitness to the shooting. His testimony is the most crucial piece of evidence they have. Of course they are going to consider it when trying to determine what happened.

And Will Smith's analogy is a perfect example of the kind of knee jerk, unthinking analysis surrounding this case. Throwing flour on somebody is a crime. Killing someone who attacks you is not.

So if I kill a guy in an alley and say "it was self defense" and since I am the only witness I can just walk? There will be no investigation?

I find it hard to believe that I'd be allowed the same leeway that Zimmerman was.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Know what would have been weird? If someone else on Neighborhood Watch had noticed some pudgy Latino-looking dude driving slowly around in the night, apparently following some kid in a hoodie, and dialed 9-1-1, then gone out to investigate, seen him getting out of his SUV and poking around in the neighborhood, and yelled "HEY! WTF ARE YOU DOING?", prompting Zimmerman to draw his weapon, at which point the concerned citizen wound up shooting Zimmerman for creeping.

Maybe then we'd have threads popping up going "Zimmerman looked suspicious; he has an earring."

Even better throw a cop into the mix...

 

[onlyrp]

The opposite. The very definition of tyranny is when the verdict is given by the police without anything else going into it.

So if a police believes a person on his word when he says "I didn't drink, I'm driving fine", that would be unsatisfactory to you too, correct?

 

[onlyrp]

Know what would have been weird? If someone else on Neighborhood Watch had noticed some pudgy Latino-looking dude driving slowly around in the night, apparently following some kid in a hoodie, and dialed 9-1-1, then gone out to investigate, seen him getting out of his SUV and poking around in the neighborhood, and yelled "HEY! WTF ARE YOU DOING?", prompting Zimmerman to draw his weapon, at which point the concerned citizen wound up shooting Zimmerman for creeping.

Maybe then we'd have threads popping up going "Zimmerman looked suspicious; he has an earring."

Why do you hate when citizens take matters into their own hands? Would you prefer the police be doing this watch work? Or people just never calling the police until they're actually dead?

 

[onlyrp]

Now you are onto something. You don't form a neighborhood watch because there is no crime. Stupid mundanes, lock yourselves in your houses where you belong and let the professionals handle things.

I can't tell if you're sarcastic. You're suggesting that people shouldn't use their guns and instincts, and rely on the police?

 

[lester1/2jr]

amazing how the conversation has changed from the first page of this thread to the last.

 

[Isar]

So if I kill a guy in an alley and say "it was self defense" and since I am the only witness I can just walk? There will be no investigation?

I find it hard to believe that I'd be allowed the same leeway that Zimmerman was.

who says Zimmerman is walking?

If you killed someone in an alley with no witnesses, and claimed self defense, and the immediate physical evidence suggested you were telling the truth, then yes..you WOULD "walk" until the investigation showed otherwise. Which is what happened here.

 

[RonPaulMall]

who says Zimmerman is walking?

If you killed someone in an alley with no witnesses, and claimed self defense, and the immediate physical evidence suggested you were telling the truth, then yes..you WOULD "walk" until the investigation showed otherwise. Which is what happened here.

Indeed. The problem is you set up a false premise. The Police did investigate the Zimmerman shooting. They interviewed him, and found his story credible. They examined the physical evidence, which was consistent with Zimmerman's testimony. They interviewed neighbors, most of whom were unhelpful but to the extent they could add anything, they tended to corroborate what Zimmerman said. Having no evidence that a crime was committed, the police made no arrests. That doesn't mean if evidence does turn up later they won't reconsider that position. But for now they have no cause to move forward. If you found yourself in your hypothetical alleyway situation, you'd be treated exactly the same.