Teenager killed by neighborhood watch captain

[Anti Federalist]

It simply isn't that black and white. There are literally thousands of possible mitigating or aggravating circumstances involved in every situation like this. Again, we do not know the intimate details of this one, so I'm not going to be manipulated by elements that make their meals doing just that.

The facts thus presented so far, are almost word for word the analogy that I posted.

In that case, or one similar, under Florida law, you would not be justified in using deadly force.

That was from an ex cop turned prosecutor and firearms instructor.

Take it for what it's worth.

And now, I'm taking my own advice and backing out of this thread like I said I was going to 100 posts ago.

 

[onlyrp]

1. My motivation is irrelevant. The fact are a guy killed an unarmed teenager in cold blood and got away with it. We should all agree that is fucked up.

2. If the races were reversed (which I don't think would happen) I would still agree that it was fucked up and justice should be done.

No, your motivations are irrelevant when they're YOUR motivations, if I had any, you'd not take it nicely.

As if it's shocking to anybody that ghettos regularly tolerate gangsters shooting innocent children and nobody even calls the police, "snitching" is frowned on and a crime on its own (thanks to self government and localization). It's nice of you to agree it's fucked up if the races were reversed, sadly most Americans do not.

 

[TheNewYorker]

The police obviously have proof that the man was justified in shooting Trayvon or he would be in jail. The police look for any reason whatsoever to lock someone up and extort money from them. They must have DNA evidence or something showing that Trayvon attacked the guy before he got shot by him.

 

[onlyrp]

The police obviously have proof that the man was justified in shooting Trayvon or he would be in jail. The police look for any reason whatsoever to lock someone up and extort money from them. They must have DNA evidence or something showing that Trayvon attacked the guy before he got shot by him.

Yeah, now people are complaining that the police are not tyrannical or incriminating enough :/

 

[BamaAla]

The facts thus presented so far, are almost word for word the analogy that I posted.

In that case, or one similar, under Florida law, you would not be justified in using deadly force.

That was from an ex cop turned prosecutor and firearms instructor.

Take it for what it's worth.

And now, I'm taking my own advice and backing out of this thread like I said I was going to 100 posts ago.

You are citing the very thing I did earlier in the thread; albeit, we are citing them for different reasons. Most cops and EVERY prosecutor are the same; they want the arrest and the conviction and neither of those things are terribly difficult to come by. Your instructor was speaking as a guy that would seek a conviction (for justice or to bolster his stats is irrelevant,) as a guy who had most likely prosecuted similar cases. The fact that the police didn't make an arrest and the attorney's office didn't seek a conviction weighs heavily on my thought process. The police did an investigation and presented their findings to the attorney's office and they chose not to file charges; that is a very big deal in any shooting especially one that involves a minor. There had to be significant circumstances surrounding this case that made the attorney think this was a loser. Again, there may be new facts that surface that change minds, but this far out all I expect is hearsay and emotionally charged embellishment.

 

[MelissaWV]

Yeah, now people are complaining that the police are not tyrannical or incriminating enough :/

The opposite. The very definition of tyranny is when the verdict is given by the police without anything else going into it. This applies when the police judge you guilty and shoot/tase you, but it also applies when they decide to believe someone acted 100% in self-defense just on their word... as a cop-loving neighborhood watch guy.

The police did an investigation and presented their findings to the attorney's office and they chose not to file charges; that is a very big deal in any shooting especially one that involves a minor. There had to be significant circumstances surrounding this case that made the attorney think this was a loser.

Please familiarize yourself with "Stand Your Ground."

The police made a decision to believe the man acted in self-defense. There was no attorney involved in that decision. Based on the police decision, Zimmerman was not arrested.

 

[AME3]

people are killing one another every night, left and right, young and old, black and white and the media rakes it in as they pimp the spin boom shakalaka boom

Oh yeah they're getting slaughtered by the thousands and the press is ignoring it!

 

[r3volution]

You posted:



That's all well and good, but I'm still not sure people are understanding what's wrong with that.

It does not matter, if this happened after the fact of Zimmermann calling and reporting this.

You cannot legally justify use of deadly force if you actively go and pursue trouble and that then results in a situation where you have to use deadly force.

i frankly dont give a shit . fuck martin and fuck zimmerman . im 99% sure that both of these guys were douche bags that happened to run into each other and the media got it all wrong to serve there own self interests . im personally more concerned with governments that kill millions on a yearly basis . so go ahead and and take the bait people and divide over these 2 yoyos because the idiot box told you too . please dont respond to this .

 

[MelissaWV]

The "idiot box" did not tell me to care about this. I actually recall a similar case that we discussed on the forums, only it involved the "ding dong ditch" prank and an off-duty cop chasing down the alleged culprit.

Anyhow, if we're to discuss personal freedom, rule of law, and the application of justice as theories... it also pays to discuss them in practice.

None of us stopped being concerned about the "bigger picture." You're just being a snarky holier-than-thou jerk because you've decided what's worth talking about, and what isn't, but can't seem to take your own medicine.

Oh and "don't respond to this."

 

[BamaAla]

Please familiarize yourself with "Stand Your Ground."

The police made a decision to believe the man acted in self-defense. There was no attorney involved in that decision. Based on the police decision, Zimmerman was not arrested.

Not at all. The police would have carried out their investigation and filed a report with the public attorney's office who would make a decision to prosecute, not prosecute, or assemble a grand jury.

 

[MelissaWV]

Not at all. The police would have carried out their investigation and filed a report with the public attorney's office who would make a decision to prosecute, not prosecute, or assemble a grand jury.

There is a grand jury assembling. He was not, however, arrested. No one can really seem to find him now.

 

[MelissaWV]

While the uproar continues over why George Zimmerman has not been arrested, soon the citizens of Seminole County will have their say as to whether or not he should be charged for killing Trayvon Martin in Sanford.

A grand jury composed of area residents will convene April 10 and hear from prosecutors, police and maybe even Zimmerman himself as they decide what to do.

Florida International University College of Law Professor Phyllis Kotey says it is “very unusual when you have criminal charges, especially of this nature, where there has not been at least an initial arrest.”

Kotey, who spent more than two decades as a prosecutor and judge, says what has happened with Zimmerman is not standard practice.

...

 

[BamaAla]

There is a grand jury assembling. He was not, however, arrested. No one can really seem to find him now.

I finally googled this story. There is a grand jury to convene in April under a new prosecutor; rest assured, there will be a trial. Looks like we will get to the bottom of this.

 

[cartemj06]

Given that Zimmerman had 100 pounds on the teen, and a gun, he probably figured it was going to be quick work and he'd be a hero (cop wannabe is already a label that's all over the news). Again, speculation, but I see it as possible that Zimmerman grabs the kid's hoodie and pulls him back to keep him from escaping. This might have been accompanied by some choice words, if Zimmerman's attitude on the 9-1-1 call is any indicator. Now, MAYBE he turned around with a "you stay right there; I'm on the phone with the cops" and he turned back towards his vehicle. That seems rather unlikely given that he thought the teen was such a danger. It sounds much more like an attempt to separate the actions, which would lend more credence to a self-defense claim. What I find more likely is that a kid who was already being followed, and possibly got called a name, decided that some fat jerk was not going to get away with that, and socked him in the nose. Zimmerman's nose was broken. With that kind of injury it's very likely they did go down and start fighting. What they haven't really released, or at least the news has not mentioned, is how far apart they were when the gun actually went off. Were they struggling on the ground? Did the teen get up and run away? Did he get up and gloatingly stand there?

The "violent assault" included a bloody nose, a little blood on the back of the head, and a cut. All of those injuries would be explained by the purely speculative account above, yet it would be easy to wedge the eye witness account in there. He did not appear to see the shooting. He saw the two fighting, then in a little bit he saw a corpse.

If the cops showed up and decided not to arrest the person who followed, fought with, then shot your child, you'd probably be a little mad, too.

This is what I am saying... right here, there isn't anything perfect about this story and its all muddled up. This story posted here by an anonymous poeter on a forum makes more sense than any MSM story I have seen so far. All I am saying is there is WAY more to this story than we are getting and as it goes the devil is in the details.

 

[Anti Federalist]

i frankly dont give a shit . fuck martin and fuck zimmerman . im 99% sure that both of these guys were douche bags that happened to run into each other and the media got it all wrong to serve there own self interests . im personally more concerned with governments that kill millions on a yearly basis . so go ahead and and take the bait people and divide over these 2 yoyos because the idiot box told you too . please dont respond to this .

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?368825-Trayvon-Martin

 

[Anti Federalist]

The "idiot box" did not tell me to care about this. I actually recall a similar case that we discussed on the forums, only it involved the "ding dong ditch" prank and an off-duty cop chasing down the alleged culprit.

I posted that story IIRC, gonna go see if I can find it.

 

[MelissaWV]

I finally googled this story. There is a grand jury to convene in April under a new prosecutor; rest assured, there will be a trial. Looks like we will get to the bottom of this.

Correct. However, usually while people are "waiting to get to the bottom" of a killing, there's an arrest. Perhaps with the circumstances, his bail would have been pretty low (nothing's come forward to suggest he has a history of actually shooting people), and we'd be in this spot anyhow, but the process is just out of whack here.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Correct. However, usually while people are "waiting to get to the bottom" of a killing, there's an arrest. Perhaps with the circumstances, his bail would have been pretty low (nothing's come forward to suggest he has a history of actually shooting people), and we'd be in this spot anyhow, but the process is just out of whack here.

Yes, and a bail hearing and arraignment.

I stand by my initial assessment.

This guy was an FOC and that's why they looked the other way.

Oh and the Ding Dong Ditch thread.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...by-off-duty-cop-for-quot-ding-dong-ditch-quot

 

[BamaAla]

Correct. However, usually while people are "waiting to get to the bottom" of a killing, there's an arrest. Perhaps with the circumstances, his bail would have been pretty low (nothing's come forward to suggest he has a history of actually shooting people), and we'd be in this spot anyhow, but the process is just out of whack here.

Not if the police and prosecutor believed that he was justified. It's all academic at this point; a man off the street could get a grand jury to return a true bill.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Racial politics. Otherwise, this would just be another story of someone getting shot that would get the most intense (and likely only) scrutiny right here on this forum.