Ted Cruz: We ought to bomb ISIS back to the stone age

[Christian Liberty]

(mod edit) I'm advocating nothing more than self defense, and I'm not advocating any ground troops either. You're user name fits you very well.

The wishing you burn in Hell was over the top, but in all seriousness I think everyone who confuses defense with offense like this should be called on to repent by whatever church they are in. Unfortunately, most pastors don't know the difference either.

American churches and American Christians sicken me more and more the more I read about this stuff.

I'm trying to keep my emotions in check, but I'm really ticked right now as well. I don't want you to burn in Hell, but I'd like to see you eventually become a libertarian again. Right now there's no way you're in the same movement as me.

So I guess Rand Paul is a neocon?

I have, very reluctantly, accepted the fact that Rand is going to have to play politics to win an election. But yes, he does sound like a neocon here. Peroidically he does. Do I actually think he's a neocon? No. Do I think he's playing into their hands? Yes. And the same is true for you. Rand has a good reason, at least. You don't. And, I will point out that Thomas Massie IS better than you on this issue, so its not like its JUST ancaps...

 

[Christian Liberty]

It would be nice if we could actually have an intelligent, civil conversation over these issues, but that obviously isn't possible. I'm done debating this issue here if we can't even have a civil and constructive debate over foreign policy issues.

We shouldn't have to debate foreign policy here. And I think its downright depressing that there isn't a consensus on this. I'm willing to be somewhat nice about it in real life and on other forums, but really, its honestly just depressing me that I have to deal with neocon talking points (And yes, I know you aren't a neocon) on this forum. Everywhere else I EXPECT people to be moronic statists and I pretend to respect them some of the time, but I don't feel like I should have to do that here.

I'm acting in emotion and what I think is righteous anger. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so.

 

[Brett85]

The wishing you burn in Hell was over the top, but in all seriousness I think everyone who confuses defense with offense like this should be called on to repent by whatever church they are in.

It's not in any way "offense" when they've murdered two U.S citizens and have clearly stated their intention is to attack us.

 

[Christian Liberty]

It's not in any way "offense" when they've murdered two U.S citizens and have clearly stated their intention is to attack us.

No, words are not offense and killing civilians that happen to be in their country is not "offense."

DO you seriously think we should intervene any time a US citizen is killed in another country? Do you realize how interventionist of a position that that would lead to?

Were you ever one of us, TC? As you'll recall, I defended you when the other hardcore libertarians were attacking you, and now I'm beginning to wonder why.

 

[Brett85]

DO you seriously think we should intervene any time a US citizen is killed in another country? Do you realize how interventionist of a position that that would lead to?

No, of course not. It's just that when you combine that with everything else, ISIS is a group that poses a threat to our national security. I think it's an act of self defense to use military action when another country or group of people has declared war against you. That hasn't happened before, and I've opposed all of these previous interventions like Iraq in 2003, Vietnam, etc. I'm very much a non interventionist, regardless of what you or anyone else says. But I believe that we have the right to use military action to defend the lives and liberties of the American people, and this is one of those times.

 

[MaxHen]

It would be nice if we could actually have an intelligent, civil conversation over these issues, but that obviously isn't possible. I'm done debating this issue here if we can't even have a civil and constructive debate over foreign policy issues.

You're repeating the exact same points over and over again.

"ISIS is going to take over Iraq!"

"It's just self-defense!"

"It's necessary protect our national security!"

All of them have been refuted again and again yet you keep parroting them. I agree saying you should burn in Hell was clearly over the top but it gets frustrating when you keep repeating the exact same BS talking points over and over.

 

[devil21]

That's right, edit MY posts when I call out the shill. This forum is going to shit.

Cosmic karma is racking up against you shills. Enjoy it when it hits.

 

[Christian Liberty]

No, of course not. It's just that when you combine that with everything else, ISIS is a group that poses a threat to our national security. I think it's an act of self defense to use military action when another country or group of people has declared war against you.

Except that ISIS hasn't done ANYTHING to the US.

That hasn't happened before, and I've opposed all of these previous interventions like Iraq in 2003, Vietnam, etc.

Well, all the post-WWII interventions, at any rate. You did support intervention to stop Hitler.

I'm very much a non interventionist, regardless of what you or anyone else says. But I believe that we have the right to use military action to defend the lives and liberties of the American people, and this is one of those times.

What you are espousing here is not non-interventionism. I'll just leave it at that.

 

[Christian Liberty]

That's right, edit MY posts when I call out the shill. This forum is going to shit.

First they came for the religion forum, and I didn't care because I wasn't religious.

Then this

 

[Brett85]

That's right, edit MY posts when I call out the shill. This forum is going to shit.

You should've been banned, not simply had your insane, hateful comment edited.

 

[Brett85]

Except that ISIS hasn't done ANYTHING to the US.

So you're of the belief that the beheadings of two Americans didn't actually happen? Or what exactly?

 

[Christian Liberty]

You should've been banned, not simply had your insane, hateful comment edited.

And you guys should be banned for advocating war on a Ron Paul site. or at the least you should be ashamed. Have you ever even considered why Ron Paul opposed it?

So you're of the belief that the beheadings of two Americans didn't actually happen? Or what exactly?

They may have happened, but that doesn't qualify as "doing something to the US." Even you agreed that killing citizens isn't a justification for intervention.

 

[devil21]

You should've been banned, not simply had your insane, hateful comment edited.

People like me actually contribute positively to this forum and movement by upholding the principles that this forum, and this MOVEMENT, was founded upon. Non-interventionism. The golden rule. Blowback avoidance and not kissing banker's asses. I have EARNED a long leash. You have not.

If anyone needs to be banned it's you and the rest of your predev shill puppet buddies here clogging up this forum with lies and fakery.

 

[Christian Liberty]

People like me actually contribute positively to this forum and movement by upholding the principles that this forum, and this MOVEMENT, was founded upon. Non-interventionism. The golden rule. Blowback avoidance and not kissing banker's asses. I have EARNED a long leash. You have not.

If anyone needs to be banned it's you and the rest of your predev shill puppet buddies here clogging up this forum with lies and fakery.

I wish you hadn't posted the "hell" comment as it makes us look bad, but I think you had the right to say it. And you're right that the kind of things that are being advocated here are disgusting. I'm ticked off to.

Makes me feel stupid for starting a thread here awhile ago about tolerance of interventionists, when we can't even agree that interventionism is wrong. Some of the people I've ranted against here are turning out to be people that are actually here.

Unfortunate.

 

[presence]

So you're of the belief that the beheadings of two Americans didn't actually happen? Or what exactly?

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/wag+the+dog.html

To 'wag the dog' means to purposely divert attention from what would otherwise be of greater importance, to something else of lesser significance. By doing so, the lesser-significant event is catapulted into the limelight, drowning proper attention to what was originally the more important issue.

Bringing the troops home
Cease and Desist Empire Building
Defend our Borders
18 Trillion in Debt

vs

CIA-Hollywoodesqe supposed "beheading" of 2 journalists and twitter threats made by lightly armed goat herders in the desert on the back side of the planet.

 

[TheTexan]

It's not in any way "offense" when they've murdered two U.S citizens and have clearly stated their intention is to attack us.

The terrorist in the most recent video might disagree. He said something more along the lines of "cease attacking us, or we will continue to attack you".

Whatever the case, we can't be seen as giving in to the terrorists. That would make us look bad. They should really have made a video that said "keep bombing our children, or we will continue to attack you." That at least would have allowed us to stop attacking them, and still save face.

 

[Brett85]

And you guys should be banned for advocating war on a Ron Paul site. or at the least you should be ashamed. Have you ever even considered why Ron Paul opposed it?

Then I guess Ron Paul would be banned from his own site for supporting the war in Afghanistan.

 

[devil21]

Then I guess Ron Paul would be banned from his own site for supporting the war in Afghanistan.

You can't stop lying, can you?

 

[Christian Liberty]

Then I guess Ron Paul would be banned from his own site for supporting the war in Afghanistan.

Ron Paul stupidly VOTED for the war in Afghanistan, but what he actually SUPPORTED was letters of marque and reprisal which was the constitutionally correct way to deal with terrorists.

 

[Brett85]

Ron Paul stupidly VOTED for the war in Afghanistan.

Ok, so Ron Paul should be kicked off of Ron Paul forums if he ever decides to post here.