Tariffs Won’t Reindustrialize America

[cavalier973]

It’s always fun to see someone promote government interventionism and then speak unfavorably about communism.

If the government is qualified to tell me what and with whom I can trade, then it’s qualified to tell me where to work, how much I can earn, where I can live, and how much I can eat. For the good of the nation, of course.

 

[acptulsa]

It’s always fun to see someone promote government interventionism and then speak unfavorably about communism.

This has been the fundamental hypocrisy of the GOP since Herbert Hoover, and Swordy has it bad.

 

[PAF]

How is this going to lead the government to do the five different things you just listed, bot?

In other words, are you programmed to answer a question? Or does your programming only allow you to change the subject?

Not only that, but the bots list is flawed:

1.) Liquidate the mal-investment

That would entail ridding the fed gov.

2.) Cut the taxes and regulations

After the worlds biggest tax has ruined us?

3.) Ending foreign aid as we know it

Does that include or exclude Israel, who just received even more money as of late?

4.) Competing currencies by renegotiating the removal of trade barriers through Bi-lateral agreements create real market competition

Bilateral, when government is involved?

5.) Cutting wasteful spending through modernization of the government work force and improving efficiency

Cutting spending, via modernization of the government?

Doing so will be revolutionary it will release us from entangling economic strangleholds, and unleash the power our economic engine has that no other country has: The American dream

Without making rational sense of 1 through 5, I can't make sense of that last statement.

 

[nikcers]

How is this going to lead the government to do the five different things you just listed, bot?

In other words, are you programmed to answer a question? Or does your programming only allow you to change the subject?

We all have difficulty doing a thousand things at once so we tend to tackle a huge project one piece at a time.

The first steps included establishing energy independence and then energy dominance.

The second step was winning the AI race.

The global competition against major powers had to be won on those two fronts first.

The US is doing trade negotiations with 100s of countries, they are securing the shipping lanes we need for trade, and rewriting the global rules for trade.

The USA is poised to lead the new world order the revolution will not be televised.

 

[Madison320]

The US isn’t competing with China.

Trade is not zero-sum.

The problem for American manufacturing isn’t the low cost of labor for overseas workers. Someone who earns $50 an hour can be a better bargain than someone making $5 an hour, based on relative productivity.

The problem is the FedGov spending and regulation, strangling the ability of companies to earn profits. Someone who might consider starting a factory declines after counting the cost, and realizing that he would make less money than he would by remaining employed by his current company.

The tariffs won’t drive the large companies out of business, but rather the smaller firms that are operating on the margin. The owners of these smaller firms will eventually realize that being your own boss isn’t worth the hassle of dealing with government, so they will close down, sell out, and move on. Less competition usually means higher prices and lower quality.

Trump isn’t doing tariffs for economic reasons, but for political reasons. If he really wants to restore American manufacturing, he would first cut Federal spending to the bone. He’s got DOGE doing a little trimming here and there, with some dramatics (like shutting down the Department of Education), but he needs to reduce Federal spending by trillions.

I think the problem is that, since Congress refuses to use good accounting, it is extremely difficult to find out where the money is going.

Cutting Federal spending is politically unpopular. Tariffs are (for Trump’s base, at least) extremely popular, because of the misunderstandings people have about trade.

I totally agree and I've heard that labor cost only averages something like 30% of the total cost to run a business. Back around the 1950s the US had the highest wages and made the best stuff at the lowest price.

One big reason China makes more stuff than us is that their owners get to keep more of the profits than we do. Capitalism, the unknown ideal.

 

[Swordsmyth]

It’s always fun to see someone promote government interventionism and then speak unfavorably about communism.

If the government is qualified to tell me what and with whom I can trade, then it’s qualified to tell me where to work, how much I can earn, where I can live, and how much I can eat. For the good of the nation, of course.

Government's job is to intervene against foreigners on behalf the American people.
Ask the founders who ran the government entirely on tariffs and deliberately used them to build and protect American industry so we could be independent.

And communism involves a lot more than "any government action about anything ever".

Foreign trade is different than the domestic economy, globalist, if we do not build and maintain our own industrial base we will be conquered economically, politically, culturally, or militarily, then we will be subjected to global communism.

You don't get to sell my birthright for a mess of pottage, if you want to sell yours you can move somewhere else to do it.

 

[Swordsmyth]

I totally agree and I've heard that labor cost only averages something like 30% of the total cost to run a business. Back around the 1950s the US had the highest wages and made the best stuff at the lowest price.

One big reason China makes more stuff than us is that their owners get to keep more of the profits than we do. Capitalism, the unknown ideal.

In China the "owners" are the state and the party, either directly, or indirectly.
It's a mix of fascism and communism.
It's been propped up on robbing the rest of the world, us in particular, and their own people, but it's all headed for collapse rapidly at this point.

 

[PAF]

One big reason China makes more stuff than us is that their owners get to keep more of the profits than we do. Capitalism, the unknown ideal.

Ron Paul had an entire Liberty Report episode where he stated that China was becoming more capitalistic than the U.S.

What U.S. people and our Propagandist Government does best is "shift the blame". Oh, and Swordy too.

 

[cavalier973]

*My* heritage is one of limited government and expanded individual liberty—a heritage that has been slowly eroded by the very institution that certain people say is going to fix everything by imposing limits on individual liberty.

People distrust the wrong entities.

 

[nikcers]

In China the "owners" are the state and the party, either directly, or indirectly.
It's a mix of fascism and communism.
It's been propped up on robbing the rest of the world, us in particular, and their own people, but it's all headed for collapse rapidly at this point.

China was taking over the world through their soft power and influence campaigns and programs like the belt and road without firing a shot.

We were going to be under a system of global communism with Chinese characteristics.

Their control over the entire world without firing a shot was what most people said was a sure thing when Trump got involved in politics in 2011.

Remember Kamala Harris in the 2020 debates said China won the trade war. She would have just rolled over and kissed their ring.

 

[nikcers]

Trump said he would do this back in April of 2011

 

[acptulsa]

People distrust the wrong entities.

Ain't that the truth? Do-gooderism and god complexes drove the creation of the regulatory nightmare which is the main thing keeping us from producing our own. And do-gooderism and god complexes are behind this ridiculous belief that we can change consumer and producer behavior by imposing this, without taking to time and trouble to fix the real problem.

And that's why you can't tell most Republicans from Democrats without a program.

 

[Snowball]

Give me a freaking break. These people are ignorant ideologues.

If they were even a little bit right, then the CPI wouldn't be up THREE FOLD in the years since we lifted tariffs on China.

How did that happen, free trade cultists? You built the Chinese Middle Class and turned them into a Superpower.

Your policies DEVASTATED US blue collar workers and local, regional retailers COLLAPSED under the weight of imported cheap crap
for Wal Mart and Target.

Consumer Price Index Data from 1913 to 2025

The Consumer Price Index (CPI-U) is provided by the U.S. Department of Labor Bureau of Labor Statistic and is used to measure inflation. The CPI is calculated and released monthly and powers this site's always-current Inflation Calculator, among other things. The government agency last updated...

www.usinflationcalculator.com

 

[acptulsa]

If they were even a little bit right, then the CPI wouldn't be up THREE FOLD in the years since we lifted tariffs on China.

Sure it would.

How did that happen, free trade cultists?

Simple supply and demand.

Money supply goes up, and the value of the stuff goes down. Simple. Reliable as clockwork. Obvious.

Throw in a little bird flu b.s. and voilà!

 

[cavalier973]

“China selling us things at low prices causes prices to rise generally” is a strange position.

Inflation is always a monetary phenomenon. It is the government, with its profligate spending, along with the Federal Reserve, with its inflationary monetary policy, that causes inflation.

 

[Snowball]

Sure it would.



Simple supply and demand.

Money supply goes up, and the value of the stuff goes down. Simple. Reliable as clockwork. Obvious.

that's my point. it had nothing to with tariffs. what's most important is actually the years before vast expansion in the money supply.
before 2000 and before QE. So, it wasn't tariffs but it still happened. Their argument is an invalid red herring.

China Tariff Rates 1992-2025 | MacroTrends

Weighted mean applied tariff is the average of effectively applied rates weighted by the product import shares corresponding to each partner country. Data are classified using the Harmonized System of trade at the six- or eight-digit level. Tariff line data were matched to Standard International...

www.macrotrends.net

 

[unknown]

1.) Liquidate the mal-investment

2.) Cut the taxes and regulations

3.) Ending foreign aid as we know it

4.) Competing currencies by renegotiating the removal of trade barriers through Bi-lateral agreements create real market competition

5.) Cutting wasteful spending through modernization of the government work force and improving efficiency

Doing so will be revolutionary it will release us from entangling economic strangleholds, and unleash the power our economic engine has that no other country has: The American dream

95% of the catastrophic decline of America is due to our own (hijacked) government's actions or inaction , not China, Russia or anyone else.

The same will remain true when our economy implodes via massive debt and spending.

 

[CCTelander]

*My* heritage is one of limited government and expanded individual liberty—a heritage that has been slowly eroded by the very institution that certain people say is going to fix everything by imposing limits on individual liberty.

People distrust the wrong entities.

.

In many cases, Swordy for example, it seems pretty obvious that who they distrust is not the issue. It’s more that they’re not really after liberty at all. What they really want is power, to punish as many of the people they don’t like as they can, and to force the rest to live according to their (the power seekers’) subjective preferences under threat of government violence. Nice guys. True paragons of Justice and virtue.

 

[TheTexan]

.

In many cases, Swordy for example, it seems pretty obvious that who they distrust is not the issue. It’s more that they’re not really after liberty at all. What they really want is power, to punish as many of the people they don’t like as they can, and to force the rest to live according to their (the power seekers’) subjective preferences under threat of government violence. Nice guys. True paragons of Justice and virtue.

As long as he respects the right of secession I don't see the problem.

And if you claim he doesn't, I would kindly request a source for such a claim.

 

[CCTelander]

As long as he respects the right of secession I don't see the problem.

And if you claim he doesn't, I would kindly request a source for such a claim.

.

Believe what you want.

But for your own sake, keep your eyes and ears open.