Take Down the Ron Paul Sign(??)

[redzone]

My brother called me today and he said that he had a call from the zoning officer. The zoning officer told him he had to take down his Ron Paul yard sign....(?)
He couldn't believe his ears and asked me to post here for advice. The officer said that he couldn't have it up 30 days prior to an election. My brother lives in Johnstown, Pa. He wanted more of an explanation and has a meeting with the officer tomorrow to find out what's going on.
I told him that someone must have complained about the sign.

Advice? Doesn't he have some property rights!

Thanks.

 

[steph3n]

take a copy of the 1st amendment with you along with some other court cases where cities lose

 

[pinkmandy]

There's a similar law here for PUBLIC property...not private, though. Unless he lives in a subdivision w/covenants banning the signs I don't see how this would be legal.

 

[Bilgefisher]

Be respectful. These are guys just doing their job. You will get much farther being polite.

 

[jonahtrainer]

There have been several threads (good draft letter there for the officer) about this harassment here. I'd recommend finding one of the old threads, getting several of the cites and taking them to the meeting. So long as the officer understands that all similar ordinances have been struck unconstitutional and your brother is willing to challenge it and has several organizations to contact I bet he will back down. The law is not on the officer's side.

 

[JimInNY]

He has the 1st amendment and the Pennsylvania Constitution on his side. It now depends on how far he is willing to go in the fight.

 

[hillbilly]

Be respectful. These are guys just doing their job. You will get much farther being polite.

Ain't that the truth?

Plus most of 'us' are way smarter than 'them'....... feel sorry for the poor uninformed cop who is only doing what he's told by other not-so-smart seniors. This is a great opportunity to educate him/her/them nicely.

I can say this because my hubby's a deputy. One of the very few smart ones.

 

[redzone]

Ain't that the truth?

Plus most of 'us' are way smarter than 'them'....... feel sorry for the poor uninformed cop who is only doing what he's told by other not-so-smart seniors. This is a great opportunity to educate him/her/them nicely.

I can say this because my hubby's a deputy. One of the very few smart ones.

He wasn't contacted by the police (cop). It was a call from a zoning officer. He owns his house and has about 1acre. I guess it depends on how the zoning laws are written, but I would think the 1st amendement would trump that!

 

[hillbilly]

He wasn't contacted by the police (cop). It was a call from a zoning officer. He owns his house and has about 1acre. I guess it depends on how the zoning laws are written, but I would think the 1st amendement would trump that!

Well then it's private property....unless he lives in some nazi housing development..... his options are much fewer if he does.

Hell, why not recruit the zoning officer? I love opportunities like this, what can I say? I'm goofy.

 

[mcgraw_wv]

How far does he live from an Election area? I bet that's what it is about.

 

[Dutch_in_Hanoi]

First try reasoning with the man. If that doesn't work: put up a second sign and one more for every call/visit after that.

 

[redzone]

How far does he live from an Election area? I bet that's what it is about.

That I do not know. He has a meeting with the zoning officer to get to the bottom of this.

 

[redzone]

First try reasoning with the man. If that doesn't work: put up a second sign and one more for every call/visit after that.

He used to have the sign in his bay window (on the inside of the house). He finally decided to put it in his yard and the zoning officer called. I told him to bring it back inside. You can still see it really well because his home sits close to the street.

 

[Dutch_in_Hanoi]

He used to have the sign in his bay window (on the inside of the house). He finally decided to put it in his yard and the zoning officer called. I told him to bring it back inside. You can still see it really well because his home sits close to the street.

Well. that could be the backup plan then. Let's just wait and see how his meeting with the zoning officer goes, if your Brother is well informed before he goes in he might be able to convey his view (and rights). If not he can still move the sign back to the window and add a second one in front of another window just to annoy him

 

[zakkubin]

Don't let him take it down.
cite this supreme court case ruling:
City of Ladue v. Gilleo (1994)

"“Displaying a sign from one’s own residence often carries a message quite distinct from placing the sign someplace else, or conveying the same text or picture by other means. … Residential signs are an unusually cheap and convenient form of communication. Especially for persons of modest means or limited mobility, a yard or window sign may have no practical substitute. … Even for the affluent, the added costs in money or time of taking out a newspaper advertisement, handing out leaflets on the street, or standing in front of one’s house with a handheld sign may make the difference between participating and not participating in some public debate.”

http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/faclibrary/case.aspx?case=Ladue_v_Gilleo


Lower courts refer to this when they strike down petty city ordinances.

See - Curry v. Prince George’s County (1999) ( federal court in Maryland) - They struck down a time limit of 45 days for political signs.

“There is no distinction to be made between the political campaign signs in the present case and the ‘cause’ sign in City of Ladue,” the court wrote. “When political campaign signs are posted on private residences, they merit the same special solicitude and protection established for cause signs in City of Ladue.”

Arlington County Republican Committee v. Arlington County (1993)

Eliminated a two sign limit.

“the two-sign limit infringes on this speech by preventing homeowners from expressing support for more than two candidates when there are numerous contested elections.”

Supreme Court of Ohio ruled in City of Painesville Building Department v. Dworken & Bernstein Co. (2000)

Had this to say about mandatory removal of signs in certain period of time:

“Although the Supreme Court has not considered the issue, the overwhelming majority of courts that have reviewed sign ordinances imposing durational limits for temporary political signs tied to a specific election date have found them to be unconstitutional,”

As long as the sign is not breaking some small rule like distance from road or size he is protected via 1st Amendment.

 

[fitch303]

Keep the sign up, once these issues get to court most of the time the judge strikes down the local law.
In Cincinnati we had this happen twice and both times the local law was walked over.


"Earlier this month, officials in the Cincinnati suburb of Mariemont backed off their effort to limit yard signs. It’s a long way out of our line of sight, but still the news there holds some value for local officials in their quest to legislate a nice view.
The village of Mariemont passed an ordinance limiting the display of signs in residential yards, The Cincinnati Enquirer reported. It came down to meaning one sign could be displayed in a yard, and only 30 days before an election. Village officials decided against fighting a lawsuit filed in U.S. District Court.
The teaching moment is this: Mayor Dan Policastro told the Cincinnati newspaper that, if somebody wanted to keep a campaign sign out all year, other residents would just have to live with it.
Or, of course, you could go talk to your neighbor about the signs. You might even ask him to take them down, if they bother you that much.
A little self-responsibility goes a long way, particularly when constitutional issues get in the way of government prettying up the neighborhood for you."

Also

"In October, the ACLU won federal court cases against two Cincinnati suburbs, Indian Hill and Mariemont, over the cities' political yard-sign bans. A federal judge issued temporary restraining orders allowing residents to display political yard signs throughout the remainder of the election season.

In 1994, the U.S. Supreme Court struck down a similar ordinance in Missouri, making it unlikely that a ban on political signs could survive a First Amendment challenge in the courts."

I'm telling you, local officials know they have overstepped their boundries, thats why most of the time they just drop the local law before it goes to court.

 

[libertarian4321]

He wasn't contacted by the police (cop). It was a call from a zoning officer. He owns his house and has about 1acre. I guess it depends on how the zoning laws are written, but I would think the 1st amendement would trump that!

He should ask the "zoning officer" to send him a copy of the applicable law that says he can't post a political sign on PRIVATE PROPERTY.

It will probably be the last he hears from the guy...

 

[redzone]

He should ask the "zoning officer" to send him a copy of the applicable law that says he can't post a political sign on PRIVATE PROPERTY.

It will probably be the last he hears from the guy...

Alright.
Thanks to everyone here for the support and helpful advice. I've passed this thread link on to my brother. Hopefully he'll have some news for me that I can share here.

He also told me that there is a democratic state senator that lives down the street about 2 blocks. He has a feeling that is who complained and therefore the subsequent call from the zoning officer.

I find it all very ridiculous.

 

[SovereignMN]

In most cases when a local ordinance like this is challenged it gets shot down. The reason being is that the government can't discriminate speech. If they allow your neighbor to put up a "for sale" sign in his yard then they have to allow you to advertise your political opinion. Local ordinances CAN limit you to a certain size or number of signs.

 

[Cinci4RP]

Keep the sign up, once these issues get to court most of the time the judge strikes down the local law.
In Cincinnati we had this happen twice and both times the local law was walked over.

Cincinnati? My two have been right in front of the Childrens Hospital Parking garage for 3 months with no problems at all. I know there is a big one right where MLK starts after crossing Central parkway, but I haven't seen many others within the city.