Survey Reveals Growing Ranks of "No Religion" Population

[Deborah K]

"The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." Summary View of the Rights of British America (1774); The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (19 Vols., 1905)

 

[ClayTrainor]

"The God who gave us life, gave us liberty at the same time; the hand of force may destroy, but cannot disjoin them." Summary View of the Rights of British America (1774); The Writings of Thomas Jefferson (19 Vols., 1905)

Right, God was an individual concept to Jefferson. Keep in mind, i pretty much agree with 90%+ of the Jefferson Bible.


Thomas Jefferson understood that Freedom of religion was more important than any individual religion, including christianity.

"Say nothing of my religion. It is known to my god and myself alone."
-- Thomas Jefferson, in a letter to John Adams, 11 January 1817

I know it will give great offense to the clergy, but the advocate of religious freedom is to expect neither peace nor forgiveness from them."
-- Thomas Jefferson, to Levi Lincoln, 1802. ME 10:305


"I am for freedom of religion, & against all maneuvres to bring about a legal ascendancy of one sect over another."
-- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Elbridge Gerry, 1799

 

[sevin]

Just because you have not experienced this personally gives you no right to correct or doubt my experience.

I don't doubt your experience, I just doubt its source is from god.

 

[PaulaGem]

Yes, but it is my private experience - you can claim no knowledge of it or its source, and you certainally have no right to change my words.

 

[TGGRV]

Yes, but you see, that's not how this country was founded. We were founded on religious principles. I would argue that since we have succumbed to the agenda of the progressives, which includes secular humanism, it has become our downfall and will result in our demise.

I don't see any religious principles, besides mentioning that people are created in the image of a Creator and so on. Rights are manifestations of human nature, they're not given by anyone.

Read the Old Testament and tell me how it's compatible.

heavenlyboy34, observation doesn't refer to witnessing something unfold. You have to use the terms in the way they're used by the scientific community.

to observe - detect: discover or determine the existence, presence, or fact of
theory - a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of etc

And by the way, when I talked about proof of evolution, I meant proof in the common usage. Proof, from a scientific point of view, refers only to mathematics.

 

[Deborah K]

I don't see any religious principles, besides mentioning that people are created in the image of a Creator and so on. Rights are manifestations of human nature, they're not given by anyone.

Read the Old Testament and tell me how it's compatible.

heavenlyboy34, observation doesn't refer to witnessing something unfold. You have to use the terms in the way they're used by the scientific community.

to observe - detect: discover or determine the existence, presence, or fact of
theory - a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world; an organized system of accepted knowledge that applies in a variety of etc

And by the way, when I talked about proof of evolution, I meant proof in the common usage. Proof, from a scientific point of view, refers only to mathematics.

Post #38 would be my response. And I'm not talking about our country be founded on religious principles as if to mean established as a Christian nation. A lot of people get that mixed up. That is NOT my stance.

 

[Monolithic]

i wouldn't describe myself as an atheist so much as a postheist. religion was necessary when we didn't know why the sun set and the moon rose or why it rained and thundered or what those bright lights in the sky were but it belongs in a stage in human infancy.

 

[Deborah K]

i wouldn't describe myself as an atheist so much as a postheist. religion was necessary when we didn't know why the sun set and the moon rose or why it rained and thundered or what those bright lights in the sky were but it belongs in a stage in human infancy.

The Founders would beg to differ. And since the world has yet to be graced with such incredible minds as the ones that founded this nation, I would have to differ with you as well.

 

[Monolithic]

The Founders would beg to differ. And since the world has yet to be graced with such incredible minds as the ones that founded this nation, I would have to differ with you as well.

"The Founders" are not infallible. Washington and others owned slaves too you know.

 

[Deborah K]

"The Founders" are not infallible. Washington and others owned slaves too you know.

Yeah the old 'slaveowner' excuse. Dismiss the founders and their religious beliefs out of hand because they were slaveowners. You ARE aware of course that you're being anachronistic right?

And who said anything about them being infallible?

 

[TGGRV]

Post #38 would be my response. And I'm not talking about our country be founded on religious principles as if to mean established as a Christian nation. A lot of people get that mixed up. That is NOT my stance.

So what you are trying to say is that some Christian values are found in the US Constitution. I agree with that stance. This doesn't mean that the country is founded on religious principles. If you read the Old Testament, the US Constitution is the complete opposite of it.

Lev 21:9 anyone? Or all kinds of passages like that?

 

[Monolithic]

Yeah the old 'slaveowner' excuse. Dismiss the founders and their religious beliefs out of hand because they were slaveowners. You ARE aware of course that you're being anachronistic right?

And who said anything about them being infallible?

Not really no, 230 years ago many people thought slavery was ok, 230 years ago many people thought religion had all the answers.

We eventually understand that things are wrong, fix the wrongs, and move on.

 

[Bman]

YouTube - Atheist live in the safest states!

 

[Eric Arthur Blair]

I use to be an atheist but I'm an agnostic now, largely because I came to the understanding that Evolution is bullshit, we have no idea how we got here.

 

[Deborah K]

So what you are trying to say is that some Christian values are found in the US Constitution. I agree with that stance. This doesn't mean that the country is founded on religious principles. If you read the Old Testament, the US Constitution is the complete opposite of it.

Lev 21:9 anyone? Or all kinds of passages like that?

Well first off, I distinguish the Old Testament from the New. The OT represents the old covenant. The NT - Christ in particular - ushers in the new covenant. It's all well and good to quote the Bible but it misses the point. Our founders writings were steeped in religious principles and it translated into our founding documents.

I'm not saying that you're being this way, but I don't get why people have such a tough time accepting that fact.

 

[Deborah K]

Not really no, 230 years ago many people thought slavery was ok, 230 years ago many people thought religion had all the answers.

We eventually understand that things are wrong, fix the wrongs, and move on.

I'm not contending that the founders believed that religion had all the answers.

 

[Bman]

I'm not saying that you're being this way, but I don't get why people have such a tough time accepting that fact.

Because, people try to use it to validate their religious rhetoric, and the constitution is not about any particular religion.

 

[Deborah K]

YouTube - Atheist live in the safest states!

Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[Bman]

Correlation does not imply causation.

Certainly doesn't, but it is food for thought.

 

[Deborah K]

Because, people try to use it to validate their religious rhetoric, and the constitution is not about any particular religion.

Anyone who says it is, is either disingenuous or misguided.