Stubborn Christians???

[thehittgirl]

Don't sweat it, just learn from the experience and try again in a different and better way. Know the just war theory. War is an ABSOLUTE last resort. If people want to bomb Iran without even talking to them first that is pretty wrong and makes us the agressor. Iran said they would sign a no nuke treaty if Israel did too.

Know Romans 13. The law of our land is the Constitution and must be followed, Bush et al is not the law or the true rule. Know the Constitution. Hand out a copy to people, you can buy pocket Constitutions cheap.

Know the evils of our foreign policy. Sanctions killing hundreds of thousand of innocent people. Is that pro life? Our tax dollars are used to support countries that persecute people, especially Christians

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_religious_freedom_in_Saudi_Arabia
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/07/28/saudi.arms/index.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/05/07/iraq/main2766003.shtml
http://www.worthynews.com/christian...s-could-face-death-penalty-for-leaving-islam/

Be a teacher. Ask people to explain in detail things like "Iran is a threat". there is usually nothing to back it up. Have people read Dr. Paul's a foreign policy of freedom.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_hCKZmkF0VU

In the end I am going to put my faith in the principles of the Bible, the Constitution, and the founding fathers. Not the politicians, bureaucrats, and media who lie to us and serve nothing but themselves.

"Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God" (Matthew 5:9).

I had mentioned those who are pro war can't be pro life. It just made them angry.

 

[thehittgirl]

The Israelites were specifically ordered not to seek a king because they were under the rule of law, God's law, and were administer it locally, and not look to man for justice. Also, they were not to look to man for their protection from other wicked nations, but to God himself. They also were not supposed to go about willy-nilly attacking other nation's or stationing troops all over the world and going into debt to do it. They were to live out the covenant God gave them and to be an example to the world.

This is basically what Dr. Paul teaches. When Israel went for "big government" i.e. a king , they were warned what they would get i.e. high taxes, standing armies, enslavement to the ruling class, being led into wickedness and all the rest of it. Big government is just a copout for hypocrites who don't want to live out the covenant themselves in their local communities. We want the gays out of marriage, but the churches don't have much respect for marriage anymore either they way people tend to move around between spouses these days. etc

I also refer to things like the communist manifesto which has a nice little 10 point summary in i t on the ideas of godless collectivism: they include readily recognizable items such as "free" govt. schools, progressive income tax (IRS), central banking (Fed), the death tax , and centralization of the control of communications (note our spying system) and the economy.

The other thing is trying to get people to have a realistic view of how the world really works. Basically we have the corporate one world slave state being put into place and we're just being used by the one-worlders to knock each other off so they can clean up the remnants. They are trying to reduce the world's population and control the resources and if they can't get everyone on the china 1 child policy, they are willing to resort to war.

Do they know about the military bases going in in Iraq? Do they know a bout the 4,000 children dying every month from diarheaa and other wasting 3rd world diseases? Do they know about the taxi drivers who get shot in the throat chancing into a patrol that just got carbombed or Iraqi women who go shopping and happen into a road block with bad radio communication and get shot in the face? This happens by the 1000s every year ... the videos are all over the place. Do they know about the false flag bombing the British special forces tried to pull in Basra a couple years ago where 2 Brits got caught with a car full of explosives? etc etc etc

Snipped for brevity...I hope it's ok but I'd like to copy and paste this. Great explanations...thank you.

 

[thehittgirl]

I've talked with several close Christian friends who shocked me when they implied that they believe all this mess, and far worse to come, was intended by God to bring about the end times for his return.

Additionally, they have no problem with mandatory implanted RFID chips (mark of the beast), even if they would themselves resist it, as that would further prove their belief that the return is near.

I don't think a slim jim will work here.


.

So you can sympathize then. It's so frustrating.

 

[thehittgirl]

Coming from a heavily Christian background, a lot of Christians, if you think about it, have something in common with some of our anarchist friends who hang around these parts...

Both want the bloody revolution.

Christians are eager for the second coming of Christ and see Armageddon and World War as a necessary step to fulfilling the Biblical prophecy. They really believe we are living in the end times, and all this talk of nuclear holocaust and spritual battle (with Islam. that's as good an antichrist as any) feeds into that. They secretly and fervently WANT a war. Now. Then they can see Jesus coming through the clouds to rapture them. It will be a beautiful sight and brings tears of joy to their eyes just to envision it.

There's unfortunately not much you can do with that line of thinking except maybe see if the person will identify that that is their underlying view of the situation, maybe ask "what if you're wrong and Bush is playing you for a chump? Actually if this is the end times would god need Bush's help to bring it about, and do you see the battle of Armageddon in actual physical battle terms, or spiritual terms, because Jesus was a spiritual leader, not a military one..."

Those kinds of questions... then talk about free will and economics, and how charity is a better way to take care of the poor than government wealth redistribution, and Jesus' example because you might find common ground with them there. You might.

Our anarchist friends have given up on the idea of changing the system from within and are ready for the bloody revolution to ensue.

I see both lines of thinking as scary. Just calm down and vote Ron Paul.

You know what makes me mad about that though? It's like they're trying to control what is to come. A Christian is supposed to run on God's timing. I really don't care for John Hagee. He's a prime example of one who wants war for Armageddon.

 

[Meatwasp]

This is changing the subject some what. But I really worry when Ron gets elected who can stop the Neocons from jumping on board and ruining the whole thing?
I am sure they seek power anywhere.
Will Christians allow this to happen?

 

[tfelice]

I wouldn't blame it on dispensationalism, per se. As a former dispensationalist, the pastor who taught me, and who I still very much respect, never for a moment thought there was anything humanity could do to force God's hand. He taught me that things will work out the way God intends and that my goal was to spread the gospel. I can only hope that reasonable positions like that will ultimately prevail.

Agreed. But I will say the mindset that was referenced earlier certainly comes out more from the Dispensationalists that from the other eschatological positions.

 

[Perry]

I'm a Christian myself, so this is by no means an attack.

I think I tried too hard, or something...I'm so passionate that I looked angry. I tried to convert Christian friends, at least if anything to see how wrong this war is. Unfortunately, they associate my feelings with Ron's and it drove them away. They also thought I came across as thinking I was better than they are. UGH. So I am going to stop trying at least for now.

I am just wondering has anyone successfully talked sense into pro war Christians?

I was close to one of them, and I feel like I've lost her.

Even the elect will be deceived...

 

[Ozwest]

Aren't Christians in America broadly divided into 2 factions?

 

[tfelice]

Aren't Christians in America broadly divided into 2 factions?

To a point yes. Those would be Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism.

 

[jb4ronpaul]

remember when Jesus sends out the Apostles, he instructs them to talk to people, and if they do not respond shake the dust from your feet and move on.

 

[Man from La Mancha]

To a point yes. Those would be Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism.

Is that anything like Shi`ahs & Sunnis?

.

 

[Ozwest]

To a point yes. Those would be Covenant Theology and Dispensationalism.

Now you're messing with me hehe. What I mean is people who study the scriptures and people who have the scriptures interpreted for them.

 

[libertygrl]

I had mentioned those who are pro war can't be pro life. It just made them angry.

The truth hurts! I think that's why some have trouble with Ron Paul. He just tells it like it is.

 

[thehittgirl]

The truth hurts! I think that's why some have trouble with Ron Paul. He just tells it like it is.

Yes! I have to remind myself of that.

 

[libertygrl]

Forgot to ask - When I discuss the war and why it's wrong to be there, some people respond that it doesn't matter why we went in. It only matters that we are there now and we just can't "cut and run." What about the poor Iraqi people who we promised to help? Do you want us to just run out on them? Do you want that on your conscience?

I can't say that I disagree with them entirely. I know the war is a complete fraud, but we've made a huge mess out of those peoples lives over there. I know Ron Paul says that if we were to leave, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will make things worse for them. But what if it does? What if the insurgents take over the government? Will we at least do something humanitarily? It is afterall, out fault.

 

[Phenom24]

Hittgirl -

I'm a Christian as well, and in conversations with church members I've learned two things:

1) Attacking or going on any type of offensive will get you responses like "You sound like a liberal" - so that's a no-win situation.

2) Now Christians seem so eager NOT TO LOSE, just tell them they need to vote for Ron when he gets the nomination so HILLARY WON'T GET ELECTED. They usually go for that.

But in all seriousness, the thing that I have been thinking about the most is:

"If Bill O'Reilly or Mark Levin said the Bible was a bunch of lies, would you believe them? No, of course not, because you know the FACTS. So why do you automatically assume that everything the newscaster says is completely honest? You do realize that Rupert Murdoch has donated to Hillary Clinton's campaign, right?"

One other thing is that when I was growing up my Pastor always said "Chew up the meat and spit out the bones" and I think many Christians are doing the opposite.. Just letting Hannity & Co. fill their brains with crap without even a thought of "Is this the truth?"

Pray for them - you'll quickly find out who the thinkers are vs. the sheep.

Go get 'em.

 

[weatherbill]

I'm finding alot of my fellow christians don't even want to know what's going on. It amazes me how much they use scripture to be idle bench warmers. They also make the mistake of taking past elections and being synical about all politics, when this election is special becasue we have a righteous man running that can make real change. They are not discerning the difference! It grieves me that the sheeple are so sheeple! I wish they would be thinking christians.
I was so encouraged to meet with my local ronpaul meetup.com group for the first time the other day. it was a breath of fresh air to finally meet Christian brethren who veleived what i beleived. For too long, i;ve been in this one chat room of dumbed down christians who just want to live idle and care free and can't discern this election.
So what I'm now concentrating on is strategic spread of Ron Paul's name.... Name recognition is key. We are gonna start flyering out churches, gun shows, etc , busy highway exit signs, and just do mass spread of Ron's name. We have till Feb 5th here in TN, only 3 months away for most states, so hope we all give it the best push we got to win the vote!

 

[M.Bellmore]

Hey who says hucklebees cant be useful.

I just found this GREAT RESOURCE through Citizenlink. THIS IS FANTASTIC!!
GUIDELINES for POLITICAL ACTIVITIES by CHURCHES and PASTORS. This is put out by the James Madison Center for Free Speech, funded by a grant from the Alliance Defense Fund.

So much of the evangelical support for Huck has been hamstrung by the lack of accurate information and the fear of the law and the IRS. THIS DOCUMENT ADDRESSES THESE ISSUES, specifically as it pertains to pastors and churches.

http://www.citizenlink.org/images/ivotevalues/docs/whatslegal.pdf
(Note: I contacted Mr. Bopp today, and he confirmed that the March 2006 version is updated and current.)

This is a must read for all 501(c)(3) organizations. There was a small table highlighting a few points, but I'm sorry, I couldn't get it to load on this page. But, here are just a few examples:

ACTIVITY
Endorse a canidate for political office? CHURCH: NO PASTOR: Yes

Allow candidates to speak on church
premises? CHURCH: Yes PASTOR: N/A

Rent list of church members to candidate
for fundraising purposes (at fair market
value)? CHURCH: Yes PASTOR: N/A

Distribute Voter Guides CHURCH: Yes PASTOR: Yes

Engage in voter registration, voter identification, get out the votet, voter education ? CHURCH: Yes PASTOR: Yes

(sorry, the examples are a bit cramped & confusing..)

Sorry, I couldn't figure out how to load the table on the page, but if you are specifically interested in it, I do have it posted on my blog: http://christiansforhuckabeemobilize.blogspot.com/2007/10/501c3-christians-equip-yourselves.html

But the table in it's entirety, is also included in the body of the entire 11 page article at the Citizenlink link above.

Friends, this is a great tool to help inform and encourage pastors, churches and non-profit organizations to get involved, to let their voices be heard, and to help mobilize the Evangelical Christian vote.

For those interested, here is the first page of the document, "GUIDELINES for POLITICAL ACTIVITIES by CHURCHES and PASTORS."

LET'S CIRCULATE THIS!!!

James Madison Center for Free Speech
GUIDELINES for March 2006
POLITICAL ACTIVITIES
by CHURCHES AND PASTORS
_________________________
by James Bopp, Jr. General Counsel
James Madison Center for Free Speech
in association with the Alliance Defense Fund

As the 2006 elections approach, and various groups begin again their intimidation tactics in an effort to silence churches and pastors about the great social and moral issues of our time,
churches and pastors need clear guidelines for permissible political activities. In response to that need, the James Madison Center for Free Speech and the Alliance Defense Fund are providing these guidelines3 and will respond free of charge to inquiries by churches, pastors, and priests on permissible political activities through informal e-mails, telephone advice and legal opinion letters.* The Alliance Defense Fund has provided a grant to the James Madison Center for Free Speech for this purpose.

These guidelines summarize the requirements of the Federal Election Campaign Act and

James Madison Center for Free Speech, 1 South 6th Street, Terre Haute, IN 47807, voice
812-232-2434, fax 812-235-3685, www.jamesmadisoncenter.org e-mail
[email protected].

Alliance Defense Fund, 15333 North Prima Road, Suite 165, Scottsdale, AZ 85260,
www.alliancedefensefund.org.

The James Madison Center for Free Speech encourages you to copy and share these
guidelines with anyone who may benefit from their use.

*Requests for a formal opinion letter involving substantial legal research are not covered
by the grant. If a request falls into this category, the requesting pastor or priest will be notified assoon as possible so that appropriate arrangements may be made to answer this request.

Here' more info from Liberty Counsel:

http://www.lc.org/resources/pastors_churches_politics.htm
http://lc.org/index.cfm?PID=15257

 

[ryan benitez]

Yes! I have to remind myself of that.

I think it is best to focus on people who have been turned away by politics and pull them back into the party with Ron Paul. You can also use Rudy as an example that the neo-cons are really just ex-democrats, in Rudys case literally.

 

[M.Bellmore]

I could use a few comments on the article I am crafting:

Why won’t Christian leaders endorse a candidate?

As the whole debate among the evangelical Christian leaders raged, a theme began to unfold; the Christian leadership will not endorse a candidate. They choose to sit on the sidelines, throw mud, complain, but do nothing about the situation. They stamp their feet like spoiled children, have their secret meetings, and say, “If Giuliani is the republican candidate, we will go third party.” Why will they not get behind a strong traditional Christian candidate, even though he is not one of the so-called “front-runners”. Is it because they cannot do so because of 501C(3) laws? No! It is perfectly legal for a pastor to personally endorse a candidate, but the church cannot. However, not all pastors are unwilling to back the only candidate that personifies all of the conservative Christian values, including Constantine's Just War Theory. If the Just War theory had been applied we would not have entered the Iraq War. Pastor Chuck Baldwin fully supports Dr. Ron Paul, writes articles supporting traditional values, and speaks at Ron Paul events. I encourage the rest of the Christian leadership across the nation to follow suit before it is too late to do anything but complain about the results in 2008.