Standard military attire?

[Dequeant]

To the original poster, look up UnderArmor military or something. They have the brown undershirts with the bonus of sweat wicking. They're superior to the cheapie Fruit of the Loom undershirts.

Yea, until you get burned with the shirt on, and rather than just take the shirt off, they have to cut your top layers of skin off........then you'll never go with out the froot of the loom again.

Also, when it comes to the killing that gets done, everyone knows.....

Air Force > Navy > Marines > Boy Scouts > Girl Scouts > Army

Also........about those shirts. They're 100% polyester, which means a tendency to build up static..........not the best thing to be wearing when working with massive amounts of electrically initiated explosives. The Air Force doesn't let any airmen who work with explosives wear them for this reason.

 

[Shink]

Multiple branches of the Armed Forces wouldn't be as much fun without intraservice rivalries.

FWIW, I always took the rivalry in the spirit of "sportsmanship" rather than trying to assert a reality of superiority - IE that debate was always more in the spirit of the Army-Navy football game than actual combat superiority (nevermind that the subject is always centered on combat effectiveness); and your 'not superior' comment struck me a lot like a backhanded stab, which is why I commented. I can see that you simply meant to comment on the superiority of the pattern while asserting that you don't believe that the Marines are any better than the Army, but the phrasing, I think, left that interpretation up to the reader.

Anyway, my major beef with MARPAT utilities, is that after what, 6-7 years in use they still haven't been released to Military Surplus? You have to get knock-offs, or go the the flea market and get them used.

But there is something to be said for flea market MilSurp booths -- about 3 months ago I went to the flea market and got an entire MOPP suit for $20 in near brand-new condition, still leeching charcoal on your skin when you wear it. You can't beat that!

I'll say this about the 'rivalry:' Marines have a history to be proud of (for the most part, of course), I think all branches should have more in depth basic training, and that knuckleheadedness is indeed a virtue in some combat scenarios. To scare the piss out of the enemy even when greatly outnumbered is impressive and a pure asset.

The Army I refer to revolves around only the combat-oriented sections. I have no respect for POGs in the general Army (Rangers, on the other hand, make badasses of even the cooks, as do Marines). I know for a fact that my training was superior to infantry Marines I came across. I have been in cooperative missions with them, and they seemed to be lost (in the urban setting, mind you). My Air Force friend went to Israel to train Marines on some urban assault tactics (which worries me, because I know Smith doesn't have the same level of urban training as I, either), and when fired upon, he saw an NCO (E-7, I believe) Marine run screaming. That is worrisome, and is reminiscent of the Iraqi National Guard troops that accompanied my unit on some patrols in Baghdad. They would actually run while shooting AKs backwards over their heads when fired upon. It is in this regard, the modern combat setting, rather than the Vietnam stuff the Marines thrive on, that I believe the Army can lay some claim to tactical superiority. I can also point out that Marines are leaving Iraq (which could be seen as a tapout) of their own volition. LOL, anyway---both branches are still improperly stuck in the 'we'll fight in the woods and mud' mindset, but overall are similar, in infantry terms.

As for surplus stuff....as much hatred as I have developed for the military 'thing' since being in, some of the stuff would be quite useful to keep on hand. I wouldn't list a MOPP suit on my priority list, but a gasmask would be good. Too many nightmarish memories of times in MOPP suits. I remember scarring my bleeding face and being totally unable to see and people passing out from dangerous heat/dehydration levels ....blech, no MOPP suit for me, even if the 'Thrax is on the loose. My prized surplus possession is my Marine digital pattern woobie. I remember some people in my barracks being jealous, and my Platoon Sergeant complimenting it and wanting to know where the fuck I got it. I also have a very large wooded camo pattern tarp with bungie cords. Sounds like shelter for the upcoming shit hits the fan episodes. Other than that, I still have 2 or 3 duffle bags loaded with the military stuff they don't want when you get out, plus a few extras.

 

[Shink]

Yea, until you get burned with the shirt on, and rather than just take the shirt off, they have to cut your top layers of skin off........then you'll never go with out the froot of the loom again.

Also, when it comes to the killing that gets done, everyone knows.....

Air Force > Navy > Marines > Boy Scouts > Girl Scouts > Army

Also........about those shirts. They're 100% polyester, which means a tendency to build up static..........not the best thing to be wearing when working with massive amounts of electrically initiated explosives. The Air Force doesn't let any airmen who work with explosives wear them for this reason.

I'll take that as a bad joke rather than try to find out where you live.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Yea, until you get burned with the shirt on, and rather than just take the shirt off, they have to cut your top layers of skin off........then you'll never go with out the froot of the loom again.

Also, when it comes to the killing that gets done, everyone knows.....

Air Force > Navy > Marines > Boy Scouts > Girl Scouts > Army

Um, kills logged on Playstations don't count, brother.

Also........about those shirts. They're 100% polyester, which means a tendency to build up static..........not the best thing to be wearing when working with massive amounts of electrically initiated explosives. The Air Force doesn't let any airmen who work with explosives wear them for this reason.

Whereas when you spend a week in the field and the only complex electronics you have on hand are your squad radio and the Gunny's NVG's, it's nice to not feel gooey moments after a GI shower.

I have to agree though about the melting fibers, not that it makes that much of a difference in the long run though - beyond the t-shirts and the utilities, about 90% of everything else is polymer based, and when the cotton burns away the rest just melts onto the skin anyway. And if all that heat and fire start cooking off the rounds in your ammo pouch, well, it's probably game over anyway.

Oh yeah, the USAF wouldn't really know what to do with an ammo pouch would they?

 

[Shink]

Um, kills logged on Playstations don't count, brother.



Whereas when you spend a week in the field and the only complex electronics you have on hand are your squad radio and the Gunny's NVG's, it's nice to not feel gooey moments after a GI shower.

I have to agree though about the melting fibers, not that it makes that much of a difference in the long run though - beyond the t-shirts and the utilities, about 90% of everything else is polymer based, and when the cotton burns away the rest just melts onto the skin anyway. And if all that heat and fire start cooking off the rounds in your ammo pouch, well, it's probably game over anyway.

Oh yeah, the USAF wouldn't really know what to do with an ammo pouch would they?

LOL!!!! Fuckin' hilarious!

I concur.

 

[Brown Sapper]

ME TOO!!! All I need in life is a fresh pair of socks, some baby wipes and my woobie (woodland) to keep me happy.

 

[Shink]

ME TOO!!! All I need in life is a fresh pair of socks, some baby wipes and my woobie (woodland) to keep me happy.

Fuck yeah. Hell, the socks don't even need to be fresh, just dry. Funny how baby wipes became god in the Army, too. I feel like an old man at 23, lol.

 

[tajitj]

Join the Army. They will show you real fast.

 

[SeanEdwards]

I've read numerous places that silk is a superior clothing material for combat situations, because the silk fibers do not rip apart and become lodged in the body in the event of a puncturing wound. The silk may tear, but it generally can be pulled out of the wound without leaving fragments inside that can be a source of infection.

So, I'm wondering do BDU's exist with similar properties? Either by using silk, or some other fabric that mimics this feature of silk. Anyone heard of that?

 

[GunnyFreedom]

And these new socks the Army got (and later the Marines) are a godsend. the X-Static socks with the silver fibers? They never had them when I was in, but i found them later. Probably explains why Shink doesn't need them fresh as much as Brown Sapper -- the X-Static socks (with the silver fibers) stay 'fresh' for something like a friggin MONTH of wearing them!

The silver-fiber socks are a new technology, and it is really HUGE for field uniforms. It (seriously) puts Shink and Sapper in totally different universes.

 

[Shink]

And these new socks the Army got (and later the Marines) are a godsend. the X-Static socks with the silver fibers? They never had them when I was in, but i found them later. Probably explains why Shink doesn't need them fresh as much as Brown Sapper -- the X-Static socks (with the silver fibers) stay 'fresh' for something like a friggin MONTH of wearing them!

The silver-fiber socks are a new technology, and it is really HUGE for field uniforms. It (seriously) puts Shink and Sapper in totally different universes.

Well, I've had to use the old black socks, too. As a matter of fact, I preferred them to the newer green ones for normal wear (not counting field). I've had plenty days with crispy black socks, trust me. When your socks crunch when you move, you know you've been in the field for too long.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

I've read numerous places that silk is a superior clothing material for combat situations, because the silk fibers do not rip apart and become lodged in the body in the event of a puncturing wound. The silk may tear, but it generally can be pulled out of the wound without leaving fragments inside that can be a source of infection.

So, I'm wondering do BDU's exist with similar properties? Either by using silk, or some other fabric that mimics this feature of silk. Anyone heard of that?

Well, problem is that silk breaks down pretty fast in the wash, and has durability issues with the dyeing process. Also, if I am not mistaken, silk lights up like the friggin SUN on IR.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Well, I've had to use the old black socks, too. As a matter of fact, I preferred them to the newer green ones for normal wear (not counting field). I've had plenty days with crispy black socks, trust me. When your socks crunch when you move, you know you've been in the field for too long.

We used to have green non-silver-fiber socks instead of black boot socks. same thing as your black socks though. The silver fiber socks are a lot less itchy, and they just don't get nasty.

I once was stuck in South Carolina without spare socks and wound up wearing the things for 2 weeks solid. I mean, it wasn't like they just came out of the wash or anything, but they didn't stink, they didn't get crunchy, nothing.

Sure, I felt 'ookey' pulling them on, but it was like they never got dirty. These new silver fiber socks, I'm sorry, are the nearest thing to a durn miracle ever made by the hand of man. heh

 

[SeanEdwards]

We used to have green non-silver-fiber socks instead of black boot socks. same thing as your black socks though. The silver fiber socks are a lot less itchy, and they just don't get nasty.

I once was stuck in South Carolina without spare socks and wound up wearing the things for 2 weeks solid. I mean, it wasn't like they just came out of the wash or anything, but they didn't stink, they didn't get crunchy, nothing.

Sure, I felt 'ookey' pulling them on, but it was like they never got dirty. These new silver fiber socks, I'm sorry, are the nearest thing to a durn miracle ever made by the hand of man. heh

Are those socks made with the actual element silver? Or are you just calling them silver because that's their color?

I've heard that silver has unusual anti-microbial properties, and I'm wondering if this might be an example of that property at work.

 

[Dequeant]

So who honestly believes the Marines do half as much damage to an enemy military as the Air Force? I mean, granted, we don't jump in ditches and lob grenades.....that's why we have marines. I mean, you can't hold an area without boots on the ground. I realize that, and anyone who disagrees is stupid.

However, when it comes to purely defeating an enemy military, the Marines have not been nearly as significant as the Air Force for a very, very, very long time. The Marines didn't deter the Russia from nuking the U.S., the Marines shooting at them come a very distant second on the "list of fears" of our enemies behind the thought of a group of American Aircraft strafing them. I know the marines have aircraft, but in the big scheme of things, they're support aircraft at best.

The Air Force or Navy is now the first ones in a battle, not marines. As evidenced by just about every conflict in the last 20 years, Marines only go in after the Air Force or Navy has damaged an enemy to about 30% effectiveness. I mean, two of the biggest cities in Afghanistan were taken by a single Airman with a radio and a laser pointer.......that's tough to top.

Now, while I can appreciate inter-service rivalries, there are certain truths that denying is simply an obvious attempt at wishing it were true..... These are that there will always need to be boots on the ground, and hen
ce always an Army or Marine infantry force, and also that modern warfare between nations is a war of air superiority........whoever has it wins, whoever doesn't loses.

The whole piece of cake way of life the Air Force provides is simply a bonus of being in the most effective military organization in the history of humanity.

WTFPWNED

On the main highway, aircraft bombed the front and rear of the massive vehicle column, trapping the convoy, and leaving sitting targets for later strikes. When visited by journalists the main highway had been reduced to a long uninterrupted line of destroyed, damaged, and abandoned vehicles, sometimes called the Mile of Death. The wreckage predominantly consisted of stolen civilian vehicles (such as cars, trucks, and buses) which were manned by Iraqi Army conscripts and allied Palestinian militiamen aligned to the PLO.

 

[GunnyFreedom]

Are those socks made with the actual element silver? Or are you just calling them silver because that's their color?

I've heard that silver has unusual anti-microbial properties, and I'm wondering if this might be an example of that property at work.

It is the actual element of silver; and you can't really see it unless you look really really closely, some of the fibers actually shine like silver.

 

[Shink]

So who honestly believes the Marines do half as much damage to an enemy military as the Air Force? I mean, granted, we don't jump in ditches and lob grenades.....that's why we have marines. I mean, you can't hold an area without boots on the ground. I realize that, and anyone who disagrees is stupid.

However, when it comes to purely defeating an enemy military, the Marines have not been nearly as significant as the Air Force for a very, very, very long time. The Marines didn't deter the Russia from nuking the U.S., the Marines shooting at them come a very distant second on the "list of fears" of our enemies behind the thought of a group of American Aircraft strafing them. I know the marines have aircraft, but in the big scheme of things, they're support aircraft at best.

The Air Force or Navy is now the first ones in a battle, not marines. As evidenced by just about every conflict in the last 20 years, Marines only go in after the Air Force or Navy has damaged an enemy to about 30% effectiveness. I mean, two of the biggest cities in Afghanistan were taken by a single Airman with a radio and a laser pointer.......that's tough to top.

Now, while I can appreciate inter-service rivalries, there are certain truths that denying is simply an obvious attempt at wishing it were true..... These are that there will always need to be boots on the ground, and hen
ce always an Army or Marine infantry force, and also that modern warfare between nations is a war of air superiority........whoever has it wins, whoever doesn't loses.

The whole piece of cake way of life the Air Force provides is simply a bonus of being in the most effective military organization in the history of humanity.

WTFPWNED

A few issues with your post, and not because I was in the Marines, I was in the Army.

1. Most of the time, SOCOM-type groups are the first ANYWHERE, that's just how it is. Rumsfeld created P2OG, the CIA has paramilitary, etc. that will always be in a soon-to-be hot zone well before any conventional force is there. The war profiteers have to have the right political climate and some good ol' prodding the hornets' nest before you can send in the clowns, right? You get half a point, though, in that the Air Force may often provide the ride there.

2. Air superiority often doesn't mean shit, and you know it. Is it important, and a nice bonus? Yes. It's very important, but it does NOT auto-win a war. Did we win Vietnam with our air superiority? No. We lost because you can not permanently destroy an unconventional guerrilla force of pissed off citizens. Did we win in Iraq and Afghanistan because of air superiority? No. Same reason. Your fallacy is the common one, the thought that this is an US versus THEM war of defined enemy forces, a game of chess where once we knock down the king, all is won. If that were the case, one bomb raid, or one sniper round would end ANY war.

3. Yes, nukes are scary. If they're ever used in a fullscale war, though, I think we're all dead. Like the samurai considers the gun, I consider the nuke dishonorable, as well.

4. Fuckin' Air Force. Lucky bastards. I used to eat at the Air Force DFAC when I was in the mood for fine dining. Lol, I remember being shocked that there was nowhere for me to shuffle along and put my tray, that someone would come pick it up for me whenever I chose to be done eating. Crazy. My wife and I are kicking around the idea of joining (she's National Guard, and I'm a disabled vet, but I hear they have waivers for almost ANYTHING, and I could possibly get a brainy MOS there) it, though.

 

[SeanEdwards]

It is the actual element of silver; and you can't really see it unless you look really really closely, some of the fibers actually shine like silver.

Cool! I want some!

"My socks are made of money, bitch! LOL"

 

[GunnyFreedom]

So who honestly believes the Marines do half as much damage to an enemy military as the Air Force? I mean, granted, we don't jump in ditches and lob grenades.....that's why we have marines. I mean, you can't hold an area without boots on the ground. I realize that, and anyone who disagrees is stupid.

However, when it comes to purely defeating an enemy military, the Marines have not been nearly as significant as the Air Force for a very, very, very long time. The Marines didn't deter the Russia from nuking the U.S., the Marines shooting at them come a very distant second on the "list of fears" of our enemies behind the thought of a group of American Aircraft strafing them. I know the marines have aircraft, but in the big scheme of things, they're support aircraft at best.

The Air Force or Navy is now the first ones in a battle, not marines. As evidenced by just about every conflict in the last 20 years, Marines only go in after the Air Force or Navy has damaged an enemy to about 30% effectiveness. I mean, two of the biggest cities in Afghanistan were taken by a single Airman with a radio and a laser pointer.......that's tough to top.

Now, while I can appreciate inter-service rivalries, there are certain truths that denying is simply an obvious attempt at wishing it were true..... These are that there will always need to be boots on the ground, and hen
ce always an Army or Marine infantry force, and also that modern warfare between nations is a war of air superiority........whoever has it wins, whoever doesn't loses.

The whole piece of cake way of life the Air Force provides is simply a bonus of being in the most effective military organization in the history of humanity.

WTFPWNED

ROFL - do you really think that blowing things away from an F-15 really means anything in the long run?

The only way to win a war is with boots on the ground. You can destroy trucks all day long, but it means NOTHING until you are on the ground.

Any kid who has played Nintendo can sit back in an air conditioned office and push buttons to designate targets via satellite. It takes a warrior to get on the ground, take fire, endure for weeks or months in dreadful conditions and STILL FIGHT.

And without those boots on the ground, the USAF may as well, ditch their aircraft and go 100% UAV and guided missiles.

Sorry bud, sure the USAF holds more explosive ordinance than all the others put together, but holding ordinance does not equal winning wars. you can turn a nation into a "glass parking lot" but until you hold the ground with troops on the ground, you can not win the battle or the war.

 

[Dr.3D]

Face it, all of the branches combined are what win the war.
I'm sure the boots on the ground are much happier that the Air Force has knocked out some of the resistance. Not only that, the boots on the ground are not being fired upon by the enemy from the air.

Boots on the ground need transportation to get where the fighting is. The Air Force and Navy provide that.

Massive shelling and bombing are required to reduce the resistance before the boots on the ground arrive. This shelling and bombing are usually done by the Air Force and Navy. Yes, there are mobile artillery but it is much easier to go in one stage at a time and finally send in the boots on the ground to clean up.

At least that was the way it was 40 years ago.