Spanking

[heavenlyboy34]

whats up green bunchie?

if you ever do have kids, please post an update after the child moves out.

If RPF is still around then, I will.

 

[QCB79]

It really depends on the kid, some just don't care what you do to discipline them they still dont give up. I have a daughter and although I normally don't spank her, I will if the situation warrants it. Now my daughter is pretty well behaved, every once in awhile she gets a time out or the tv get shut off for a little while and usually the only thing I have to discipline her about is copping an attitude.

I've dated women with kids that were totally out of control, I remember one in particular, her kid was almost unbearable and she didnt care if you spanked her, it didnt phase her one bit.
I remember one day this kid, she was like 4 at the time, actually got in my face when i was sitting in a chair and she points her finger in my face and starts to try and tell me off. I moved her hand out of my face and told her she needs to learn soem manners and her mom tried to put her in time out. all she did was slide off the couch kicking and screaming at the top of her lungs. she would scream until she choked and turned blue.

My brother and I were both spanked when we were growing up and we both turned out ok. We also learned not to disrespect our parents or there were consequences. I have noticed a trend over the past generation, ever since the anti-spanking, coddle your kids to death people came along. The majority of kids have zero respect for anyone or anything, i've seen them get up in their parents face screaming and they all seem to have this attitude of I can do what I want and theres nothing you can do about it.


Could just be coincidence but my generation (x) didnt have that kind of disrespect that I see now.

 

[Conza88]

spare the rod, spoil the child

already stated.

"The problem with fundamentalists insisting on a literal interpretation of the Bible is that the meaning of words change. A prime example is 'Spare the rod, spoil the child.'

A rod was a stick used by shepherds to guide their sheep to go in the desired direction. Shepherds did not use it to beat their sheep. The proper translation of the saying is 'Give your child guidance, or they will go astray.' It does not mean 'Beat the shit out of your child or he will become rotten' as many fundamentalist parents seem to believe."

Yeaaaaaaah uhhhh..

My opinion about it is balance. Discipline until the child is able to fully control themselves, or at least able to reason - however primitive.. i.e out and about. I would ALWAYS say WHY they did what they did was wrong. Otherwise how will they learn.

The parents are responsible for their children.

No kids... so yeah, take it with a grain of salt.

I think one point of topic; for reasoning with them - you have too DUMB it down... small words, small sentences, a story, a parable, an example.... - HOW would YOU feel if someone did that too you? Try develop a sense of empathy in them.

But they also need to get some physical hits (sport, etc..) don't cuddle them or over protect them... let them run wild imo.

I also think a lot of parents get jealous of the fun their kids have.. or it is envy. There is no pressure, everything provided for them, not a care in the world. Mum and dad have to pay the mortgage, stress at work, etc etc.. it would seem a fair few parents take out some of that stress on the kids or family.

I remember thinking... "all we're doing is having fun." And I remember writing down my thoughts, as to some guidelines I should remember for when I become an ADULT, so I can address kids in the proper way - or at least REMEMBER what it was like to be one.. lol think I was about 8. Anyway, that list is long gone... wld be cool if I found it, doubt it though.

It's probably a fine line... the kids reasoning is "all we're doing is jumping up and down on the bed"... They don't make the logical connection, it could break - so mum and dad would then have to pay for it, which would set them back in savings, or whatever (if they are doing it tough)

The fine line is - do you tell that to your kid, mom and dad are struggling with payments, if you break the bed - we can't afford to go to the movies... LOL, of course not - way to ruin a kids ignorant bliss. They have no control over the situation, so why heap the worry on them.

If anything that is FAR more cruel, than simply saying "Because mommy said so" - and a smack on the ass, as a reminder.

Physical abuse which is TEMPORARY (pain for 10 minutes?) or the knowledge that mom and dad are struggling in some way... That lasts more than 10 minutes, thats for sure.. months even.
*shurgs*

 

[asimplegirl]

I agree with spanking- not abuse, but spanking. That being said, it should not be your first and foremost go to punishment IMHO, but if you do that, it's not my business.

 

[Anti Federalist]

"Other"

It's none of your, or government's, business how I raise my children.

 

[Working Poor]

I think a thump on the rump to a small child to get their attention is okay and only on the area where the diaper has the most padding and if they don't where diapers than they are old enough to listen and be talked to.. If your children won't listen to you it is your fault and to beat them because you don't know how to be parent sucks and you are wrong.

But, never is a belt,paddle, or object to be used. This spare the rod stuff is taken out of context. The "rod" is a Shepard's tool used to keep the sheep from falling off the side of cliffs, to guide them, and pull them back out of harms way. I think "spare the rod" is like a metaphor is not to used for beating children with....So to me it means guide your children and keep them from falling off cliffs.

My kids are really cool too....

 

[driller80545]

My sons wanted spankings. Every time I said "if you do that, I will spank you", they did it and then I spanked them. Always hurt me more than them. But they inherited the hard headedness and it has served them well (as it did me) in their adult lives.

 

[asimplegirl]

I think a thump on the rump to a small child to get their attention is okay and only on the area where the diaper has the most padding and if they don't where diapers than they are old enough to listen and be talked to.. If your children won't listen to you it is your fault and to beat them because you don't know how to be parent sucks and you are wrong.

But, never is a belt,paddle, or object to be used. This spare the rod stuff is taken out of context. The "rod" is a Shepard's tool used to keep the sheep from falling off the side of cliffs, to guide them, and pull them back out of harms way. I think "spare the rod" is like a metaphor is not to used for beating children with....So to me it means guide your children and keep them from falling off cliffs.

My kids are really cool too....

Once again, we differ on child rearing. I will spank my child with what ever I determine to be used, as long as I am not beating them, there is no reason for anyone else to care. Secondly, Children of the age to be "talked to" are also more prone to not listening and doing what they want, so they also deserve to be spanked if they do something bad enough. Thirdly, what the hell could a child in a DIAPER do that is bad enough to be "spanked" anyway? I mean I spanking a child out of diapers is out of the question, but a child who cannot even speak is completely acceptable?

If your children won't listen to you it is your fault and to beat them because you don't know how to be parent sucks and you are wrong.

Again, not always. I will give you a few years, your child is obviously too young to have other influences such as grandparents, other children, and parents of friends.

Edited to say, I see that you have said in another thread that you have raised MANY kids.... Anyway, just as I said there, sometimes the kids are just ass goblins...even when growing up in a completely healthy loving environment...you cannot always blame the parents of the child.

 

[Time for Change]

I know you don't really think that people who believe in spanking are out there beating the hell out of their kids with a shepherd's rod?
I assume you are just goofing around.

So to me it means guide your children and keep them from falling off cliffs.

Well said!!

Most of the answers here make perfect sense...a swat to get their attention, a couple swats to reinforce a previous warning, but not a flat out beating.

Remember...we are talking about our own children here...part of us.
THose precious little people that love the hell out of us no matter how shitty the day at work went.

THis is not directed at any specific individual in this thread...just a generalization...
If you don't have kids and are simply resentful of past spankings, you don't really have a dog in this fight because you don't have the experience of a parent in the given situation.

A normal parent is not going to beat their own child senseless, or hit them with hard objects out of rage...
It is the rare few that probably should not have reproduced in the first place that are usually guilty of really hurting their kids...many times not their own kids either...step kids.
Most importantly...it is those few numbskulls that the proven crooked media will plaster all over the thought programming and control box (known as TV) and dramatically report til the cows come home until all the sheep think like they are supposed to think.

It is sickening to know there are adults out there with no control or rational thinking abilities, but they exist none-the-less.
People do stupid shit all the time and it is NOT just related to being harsh on the kids.
Outlaw stupidity while outlawing discipline and the stupid people will remain oblivious to the legalities regardless of the legislation.

What I am attempting to say is... parenting falls well within individual responsibility.
The parents are responsible for the calibration of their own child's moral compass.
Teaching the child to use their own judgment with an understanding of the fact that there may be consequences involved with their decisions, that may include a swat on the keester (or two) sometimes helps the kid learn to think things through.

There are many benefits and shortcomings with any means of discipline...but the means of correcting the child are the responsibility and private business of the parents alone.

This is coming from a guy with 2 kids, who has deserved and received many spankings himself over the years, and has found it necessary to give a couple spankings in 18 years...so take it as you will.

Spanking is sometimes a necessary evil, an effective (occasional) leverage tool (the threat of punishment is far worse than the actual punishment sometimes) and should remain the 100% private business of the parents.

Seriously, when was it that society took the turn and said that spanking is the root of all evil and should be outlawed. Just give the kid these pills indefinitely and a game console in front of a large flat panel TV and they won’t want to get into trouble any more.

 

[asimplegirl]

Oh, my Gosh, I wish there were a thank you button.

 

[satchelmcqueen]

Once again, we differ on child rearing. I will spank my child with what ever I determine to be used, as long as I am not beating them, there is no reason for anyone else to care. Secondly, Children of the age to be "talked to" are also more prone to not listening and doing what they want, so they also deserve to be spanked if they do something bad enough. Thirdly, what the hell could a child in a DIAPER do that is bad enough to be "spanked" anyway? I mean I spanking a child out of diapers is out of the question, but a child who cannot even speak is completely acceptable?


Again, not always. I will give you a few years, your child is obviously too young to have other influences such as grandparents, other children, and parents of friends.

Edited to say, I see that you have said in another thread that you have raised MANY kids.... Anyway, just as I said there, sometimes the kids are just ass goblins...even when growing up in a completely healthy loving environment...you cannot always blame the parents of the child.

i dont know how old you are, but did you ever get whipped with the Hot Wheels race track section? (straight piece?) man did that get my attention!

 

[Mini-Me]

If you discipline your first child well enough, the mere threat of punishment will work on his/her younger siblings. For instance, my parents used to tell my little sisters that if they misbehaved, they'd give them a white napkin, a wooden block, and a knife, and force them to slice off a joint of their pinky finger themselves, wrap it in the napkin, and present to my dad as a gift. Apparently, they never really took the threat seriously, and they just laughed it off, until one day the older one got in so much trouble that my parents decided to give her the shock of her life. They sat her down on the couch, wheeled a large box from their closet into the living room on a dolly, and released me from my Skinner box to meet them for the first time. Once they saw my hands, they never disobeyed my parents again. Today, I'm a free man, but I type with my knuckles, and I'm not a fan of authoritarian parenting. I guess I turned out alright, though.

Seriously though, this is an interesting discussion. My own experience tells me that spankings are pretty useless for the most part, but I'm a pretty unusual case...I was spanked a few times when I was a toddler for silly offenses, but I never was spanked as punishment after that. I doubt the spankings had the intended effect anyway, because I couldn't have possibly done anything all that dangerous or morally wrong anyway that I should have known better about (the worst thing I did that earned a spanking was probably when I ruined and almost entirely unravelled one of my favorite socks during naptime, trying to get rid of a loose string, and then blamed it on my imaginary friend ). I was also hit a couple times or so in a flash of anger for no particularly good reason, but that obviously wasn't discipline, so that doesn't count. Throughout most of my early childhood, time-outs were the main method of punishment. I can remember sitting in time-out and tracing the designs on the chair, but I can't really remember what I ever did to get it...odds are I was probably just getting out of hand and needed to cool down or something. Later on in my childhood, groundings were the main method of punishment. Those didn't really work all that well, though...even though I was a pretty good kid and adults always loved me, I was stubborn as hell, and the one and only way to make me change my behavior was to convincingly explain to me why my behavior was wrong, hurtful, etc. The problem for my parents (my dad especially) was that they could rarely ever put forth a convincing argument, because the "worst" of my behavior was pretty much talking back and arguing about the unfairness of undeserved groundings (which generally followed every report card and parent-teacher conference, since I always got in trouble for talking in class and trying to make friends...for about six years straight ). Actually, my mom even feels bad about all of the groundings now.

The point of all this: In my case, "discipline" of any kind didn't contribute much whatsoever to my manners or morals...although it certainly helped me hone my rebellious side, because I fought tooth and nail against every minor and petty injustice I was dealt, no matter how much worse the consequences would be because of it. Rather than discipline, I think there was one and only one thing that instilled a moral code and sense of decency in me: Many of the most important adults in my life took the time out of their everyday lives to teach me and help me understand how to be a good person and what it means, and my mom in particular always valued that as a trait above pretty much all else. My mom and other family members always had very high expectations of me, and they made sure I knew what they valued in people. Combined with them constantly stating their high opinion of me, I think I developed along the path I did in the initial stages because I didn't want to let them down.

I like a lot of people's posts in this thread, especially Freedom 4 all's, wizardwatson's, conza's, and Original Intent's. I'm not a parent yet, so my views might not "count," but here's my perspective:
Discipline works to make sure your children understand troglodyte-inspired concepts like authority, punishment, and reward, but that alone will only bring them up to stage one or so of Kohlberg's stages of moral development. Discipline focuses on the behavior, and it can effectively prevent poor or hurtful behavior on a temporary or even a permanent basis, but it's nowhere near enough to give a child a meaningful understanding of morality or what kind of person they should strive to be. Even though most adults behave well enough to successfully function in society and play nice with others, I feel as though very few are particularly "good people" at heart. Sure, most people are capable of love and empathy to a greater or lesser extent, but so few ever really move beyond the shallow morality of children. I don't just want my kids to grow up to be merely functional and superficially moral enough to avoid public displays of flagrant asshattery; I want them to grow up to be exceptionally moral. It's important to me that they grow up with a universal sense of empathy, a strong personal sense of justice, and firm principles. I want them to understand that doing the right thing just because it's the right thing is not only an end in and of itself, it's the single most important concept they should base their lives around.

Obviously, discipline alone isn't going to achieve all that, but I'm sure it will become necessary to get things under control on occasion and to stress consequences for actions. I don't foresee any spankings though, unless my kids do something that's dangerous to themselves or to others (as someone else said, if they ever do something that absolutely must not be tolerated under any circumstances, I'd have no choice but to send an immediate message that I mean serious business). On the whole, I don't see how they're any more effective at stopping/preventing poor behavior than using other kinds of discipline or deterrents, and they certainly don't teach any kind of moral lesson...especially if they're done in anger, which really sends the wrong message. Making spankings illegal may be downright insanity, but it still doesn't mean any kind of physical punishment is a particularly good idea. I know a whole family of quite successful people who "turned out just fine" by all appearances after an upbringing filled with corporal punishment and "strong discipline," but beneath the surface, at least half of them are shockingly cruel, abusive, and evil people. Besides, spankings wouldn't be very consistent with everything I want to teach my kids anyway, and I'm sure they'd eventually call me on it. When it's necessary to discipline them for acting out of line, I'll probably opt for rescinding privileges and putting them in time-out to make them cool off. If they commit some particular offense against another person (like hitting each other, biting each other, etc.), I'm sure I can come up with some creative form of justice that will force them to make full amends with their victim.

Bottom line: Discipline affects behavior, but to make your child into a good person, I think you need to work on a deeper level, and not just following some "incident" either. When discipline does become necessary though, I don't really see the point of spankings other than proving your physical dominance and ruling by fear, and any kind of corporal punishment might do more harm than good.

 

[Working Poor]

Nothing teaches a child like as well as the example you set for them.

Children learn what they live.

If your child is running to the street and a car is coming and you already know they don't listen to you is screaming at them to stop going to make them stop? I hope so....but you might ought to go get them and pull them to safety.

 

[asimplegirl]

no, mine does not run out into the street...tried once but got a good 'ole case of the red ass real quick, has yet to try it again. He will actually stop far from the street.


As I said, I think you can do what works for your kids, as long as you aren't beating them... and setting an example is ALWAYS needed.

and, no, I never got a spankin' or woopin' down here with that track, lol, but have had it with a few strange things, including one of those huge flat lego land pieces. That crap hurt. And a water hose. And a wooden spoon. And a comb. And flyswatter (talk about pain)...I have had it plenty. lol.

 

[Original_Intent]

I'm always willing to sit down and talk to my kids - without precondition. However, I do not think it would be appropriate to talk about taking anything off the table.

 

[asimplegirl]

yeah, sure talking is cool..as I said before spanking should not be your first response unless it something that merits that type of punishment. But you had better believe that belt gets used in this house..has only had to happen about four times in 6 years, though, so I would say it works pretty well until they forget that old feeling and need a reminder ....then just the threat works out.. "I am going to get your daddy" usually is answered with "nuh-uh don't, I will stop". Works out pretty well, and I don't feel bad about that either.

 

[Working Poor]

When I saw that my children were not listening to me I would pick them up if they were small enough and if not I would go hug them.

Another thing I wish to say about whippings and pulling children by their limbs.... as a person who does work with physical therapist I can attest that many people who have shoulder and hip displacement is due to the use of physical discipline and suffer life long pain because of it. I have seen many children who's limbs have been dislocated due to parents picking them up by one arm and swatting them on the butt. This happen even in the most loving homes.

I cannot tell you how many adults tell me in the course of treatment that they remember being picked up by the arms or hit too hard in the rear. The body has memory too and when treating pain it can often be pin pointed back to times when parents have used physical punishment.

If possible never pick your children up by one arm as this can very likely damage the shoulder, wrist and elbow joints. Always support the neck of a child who cannot yet sit up on their own when you pick them up.

Often children don't know that their shoulder or hip is not supposed to hurt.

 

[asimplegirl]

When I saw that my children were not listening to me I would pick them up if they were small enough and if not I would go hug them

I just nearly pissed myself... thanks for the laughs.

The body has memory too and when treating pain it can often be pin pointed back to times when parents have used physical punishment.

Hang on. What? Yes, my shoulders often times recall their bad childhoods. Many nights I lie awake with them pestering me. The cry out, "hey, pssst, i am injured.... my ch-ch-childhooooood"



BTW, this is about spanking, not abuse, which would include the ripping off of limbs, and lips, and such, lol.

 

[TinyMachines]

My fiance and I were discussing it last night. We both lived in terror from our fathers because they were the one's who administered the discipline. We never knew what we would do wrong that would set them to spanking. Mine were all explained as to why I got them, but that didn't stop my constantly living in fear of pain. That memory still sticks with me and it's pretty scary sometimes. I don't think anyone should have that pain forced on them by their own family. It's pretty sinister.

 

[asimplegirl]

well, he have a total of two rules, so I would say that it is pretty understandable what the reason for a spanking are in our house. It is not the first resort, and it is not done to the extend of crippling a child. The punk knows exactly what he is getting in trouble for before getting spanked, and not by us telling him- he is asked. He sees an issue we can discuss it, and if he did not know he was doing anything wrong he can go on with a warning. As I said four times in 6 years isn't that much.