Spain fears break-up as Catalonia votes

[Vanilluxe]

Secession makes the other EU states nervous because they have their own regions that could take it up. Bretony and Corsica in France, the Po region of Italy, Flanders in Belgium.

Don't forget South Tyrol of Italy where there are lots of Germans there who wants it to go to Austria and then there is Scotland where they are holding a referendum in 2014.

 

[Origanalist]

Secession makes the other EU states nervous because they have their own regions that could take it up. Bretony and Corsica in France, the Po region of Italy, Flanders in Belgium.

Of course, nothing will fuck up a good statists day like serious talk about Secession.

 

[Smart3]

There's an independence movement or autonomy movement or unification movement in every single European country. That's what happens when bloodshed/conquest determines the borders of countries rather than individual peoples.

and let's not forget the Kurds, Assyrians, southern Arabs of Iran, etc in the Middle East, or the hundreds of possible new African nations, or better yet - a free and independent QUEBEC!

 

[Vanilluxe]

There's an independence movement or autonomy movement or unification movement in every single European country. That's what happens when bloodshed/conquest determines the borders of countries rather than individual peoples.

and let's not forget the Kurds, Assyrians, southern Arabs of Iran, etc in the Middle East, or the hundreds of possible new African nations, or better yet - a free and independent QUEBEC!

My French professor supports independence for Quebec.

 

[angelatc]

...Catalonia would have to gain admission [to the EU], joining the queue of a list of new European nations seeking membership, and the process would likely be blocked by a vengeful Spain.

What the hell is wrong with people? "I want my small country to be run by a large group of other countries! Hurrah!"

(the queue of a list? Editor, puhleez!)

 

[Smart3]

What the hell is wrong with people? "I want my small country to be run by a large group of other countries! Hurrah!"

(the queue of a list? Editor, puhleez!)

Leaving the EU isn't part of any independence movement in Europe AFAIK. The independence parties actually are the most pro-EU parties, just look at the SNP in Scotland.

 

[Henry Rogue]

That's one way to shrink the size of government, shrink the size of the country. Keep dividing it up till it's the size of a county or smaller.

 

[Origanalist]

Have they stated that they wish to join the E U if successful?

 

[Acala]

Love it! A string of peaceful secessions around the globe, followed by an economic crisis in the US that hobbles Federal power, and we just "might" be able to split off a few free republics from the evil empire without a civil war.

 

[osan]

Go Catalonians!

This does, however, raise interesting questions.

Would a seceded Catalonia still be party to any agreements and treaties to which Spain is?

Will and independent Catalonia bear some proportion of Spain's national debt? If not, why not? If so, why, and more importantly, how much? How is it calculated?

Were I the Catalonians, I would tell Spain to take their debt and shove it. I would tell the world bankers to fuck off.n Dangerous, but that's never stopped me before.

 

[Origanalist]

Go Catalonians!

This does, however, raise interesting questions.

Would a seceded Catalonia still be party to any agreements and treaties to which Spain is?

Will and independent Catalonia bear some proportion of Spain's national debt? If not, why not? If so, why, and more importantly, how much? How is it calculated?

Were I the Catalonians, I would tell Spain to take their debt and shove it. I would tell the world bankers to fuck off.n Dangerous, but that's never stopped me before.

I seriously want to see this happen, and watch just how the whole thing plays out. I wish them all success and hope they proceed wisely.

 

[Acala]

Go Catalonians!

This does, however, raise interesting questions.

Would a seceded Catalonia still be party to any agreements and treaties to which Spain is?

Will and independent Catalonia bear some proportion of Spain's national debt? If not, why not? If so, why, and more importantly, how much? How is it calculated?

Were I the Catalonians, I would tell Spain to take their debt and shove it. I would tell the world bankers to fuck off.n Dangerous, but that's never stopped me before.

I would say that they would not be party to any treaties and would not owe any of the debt. Unless, of course, they agree to it as one of the terms of secession. Why? Because Spain's debt is in the form of Spanish government notes. It is the treasurer of Spain's signature on those documents, not the treasurer of Catalonia. If Spain dissolved, that might be another matter.

 

[TXcarlosTX]

Ive been posting about this for a long time. This like many things has futbol in its blood.

Im a Barcelona fan because they want to secede from Spain.

Real Madrid vs Barcelona is the biggest single viewed sporting game.

Football Rivalries-Barcelona v Real Madrid
http://youtu.be/q1rI2i433q0


The next "El Clasico" will be CRAZY!!!

 

[Zippyjuan]

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/int?guid=20121126/eecee2d5-dd86-4bce-870d-da37ac301197

Independence drive falters for Spain's Catalonia
From Associated Press
November 26, 2012 2:53 PM EST
MADRID (AP) — Voters in Spain's Catalonia region favored the right to decide on possible independence but split their ballots between fractious parties, making the prospect of secession less likely than ever.

Artur Mas, leader of the northeastern region's ruling center-right coalition, had sought an absolute majority in Sunday's vote to get a mandate for an independence referendum that the central government says would be unconstitutional. But his Convergence and Union party lost seats while a fierce rival, the pro-independence Republican Left of Catalonia, made big gains.

Mas told reporters Monday night he would not resign, was still committed to pushing for a referendum that he thinks will happen within four years and would try in the coming weeks to cobble together a coalition majority.

"We detected a sociological change in Catalonia supporting sovereignty," he said. "The people have spoken and now the situation is clearer and more complicated."

Spain's central government in Madrid predicted Monday that the result will mark the end of a secession vote drive that has distracted authorities who are trying to prevent Spain from being forced into a bailout.

While the two Catalonian parties share the goal of holding the referendum, they are far apart on almost everything else and analysts said it would be very difficult for them to form an alliance.

More at link.

 

[Origanalist]

http://enews.earthlink.net/article/int?guid=20121126/eecee2d5-dd86-4bce-870d-da37ac301197


More at link.

Freedom is messy.

 

[CharlesTX]

Ive been posting about this for a long time. This like many things has futbol in its blood.

Im a Barcelona fan because they want to secede from Spain.

Real Madrid vs Barcelona is the biggest single viewed sporting game.

Football Rivalries-Barcelona v Real Madrid
http://youtu.be/q1rI2i433q0


The next "El Clasico" will be CRAZY!!!

That's funny. I'm a Real Madrid fan, not because of politics, but because I've been a fan since I was young. But I've always supported the Catalonians and the Basque for that matter, for their right to independence.

 

[Demigod]

Who would guess that Texans are the ones that watch football the most

In any case Juventus all the way to the grave.

 

[osan]

I would say that they would not be party to any treaties and would not owe any of the debt. Unless, of course, they agree to it as one of the terms of secession. Why? Because Spain's debt is in the form of Spanish government notes. It is the treasurer of Spain's signature on those documents, not the treasurer of Catalonia. If Spain dissolved, that might be another matter.

I'd tell them to get bent about the debt part.

This leads me to the next question: were Spain to break into, say, half a dozen autonomous states or what have you, where would their debt go? I suspect their creditors would be left holding the basket... for a while. I do suppose, however, that they would resort to the same old thing to which they have always turned: war. OTOH, I wonder if that would work under such a circumstance.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

My French professor supports independence for Quebec.

That last independence vote was rigged... Quebec should of been independent from her majesty's masters long ago. It all depends on the tactical and strategic value by the NWO.

Here's a little refresher course on Australia... in 1985 they made a movie that touched on it called, Falcon & the Snowman.

 

[compromise]

This "independence" they speak of is a joke. Regardless of what they do, both main political parties are EU-controlled and will remain part of the EU federation which arguably (at this point) is a country in its own right. The EU is an extremely oppressive, liberal-socialist dictatorship. Spain's problems are not entirely Spain's fault - a lot of it is the fault of crazy federalists in Brussels and Strasbourg constantly pushing for more bailouts, who will remain in power whether Catalonia is in Spain or not.

The EU has two presidents. One is an unelected dictator, Herman Van Rompuy. The other is someone indirectly elected by the European Parliament, the former Maoist revolutionary José Barroso, who in 2009 when he was elected, was the only candidate on the ballot. Barroso has a cabinet of "Commissioners", all unelected, that have the sole power to make new European Union law. Members of the elected European Parliament cannot make EU law at all. Barroso's VP and foreign affairs representative is a woman, Catherine Ashton, who has never held any elected office in her life, who was previously involved in a scandal in which she received money from the USSR via the British Communist Party.

The EU is a tyranny, and it is no wonder that the people of Greece, Spain and Portugal, where rockets and molotovs are being fired at police, are taking up arms against it.