Source Close to Ron Says it's Possible he Could Still be Swayed to Run 3rd Party.......

You mean like the inflation tax does? ;) Be careful what you wish for. The economy doesn't need people to be strong-armed into saving OR spending. Either one causes terrible economic imbalances.

I'm not in favor of a sales tax either though, even over what we have now. Although a progressive income tax encourages people to "eat the rich," a high sales tax is deeply regressive and crushes the poor. It's immoral that the government extorts money at all, but stealing from the poor is pretty much the lowest of the low.

A tax that encouraged spending wouldn't be a bad thing. It wouldn't be encouraging malinvestment. What it would do is make it a little more valuable to spend or invest your money than sitting on it. Money doesn't do anyone any good when its sitting under your mattress.

I don't believe anyone should pay taxes who can't afford it.
 
I want to be able to save, thank you very much.

Heck, why not just have the gov't take 100% of anything in your bank account at the end of every week? That would sure encourage spending. Ugh.

I never said you couldn't save. That's your right. But would you rather your government tax your gross wages or your net income after you made all your purchases? I know any business would chose to have their net income taxed as opposed to sales.

I was thinking of a tax rate of a few percent, not 100%.
 
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A tax that encouraged spending wouldn't be a bad thing. It wouldn't be encouraging malinvestment. What it would do is make it a little more valuable to spend or invest your money than sitting on it. Money doesn't do anyone any good when its sitting under your mattress.

I don't believe anyone should pay taxes who can't afford it.

Unless it was real money, like gold/silver coins or certificates. In that case, if you pull them out 10 years later the're worth tons more than FRN's would have been (even collecting interest).
 
Unless it was real money, like gold/silver coins or certificates. In that case, if you pull them out 10 years later the're worth tons more than FRN's would have been (even collecting interest).

Or you could invest your money in the stock market and get returns there.
 
Palin would push away a lot of Dems and Indies. I guess it would pick up conservative women and neo-teapartiers?

I'd honestly rather see a Kuchinich as a running mate, just to pull in both sides completely. I know I need to duck flying vegetables right now, but I seriously think a Paul/Kuchinich ticket would pull in a ton of Dems/Indies, whereas a Paul/Palin would push them away.

It would also be a clear statement - we are not partisan. We are post-party politics, and we're here to make a stand.

I agree with this: Palin is a poison pill, but Kucinich would be very interesting if this ever actually happened. He'd make the left a lot more comfortable with Paul, because they currently mistrust him and think he wants to throw old people off cliffs and cackle at people starving in the streets.
 
Very true. It would kind of nullify a lot of the Dem and Indie support if Palin was the VP.

What about John Stossel as a VP?

While John Stossel is a 'famous name', i don't know that most people know where he stands politically. Names like Palin and Kuchinich, on the other hand, pretty much define a political stance. GJ isn't known to most that aren't paying attention or libertarian.
 
Or you could invest your money in the stock market and get returns there.

That's not savings, that's gambling, in these days and times. Look what happend to 401k's.
Tell me. If a stock goes way up, who's buying them at that price, and when it goes down, who's selling? Then consider the opposite (which is what everyone usually considers first).
 
A tax that encouraged spending wouldn't be a bad thing. It wouldn't be encouraging malinvestment. What it would do is make it a little more valuable to spend or invest your money than sitting on it. Money doesn't do anyone any good when its sitting under your mattress.

I don't believe anyone should pay taxes who can't afford it.

"Nudging" people to overconsume when they would otherwise save their money - which they need for their future, as evidenced by the fact that they'd save it otherwise - systematically encourages everyone to do the same thing with their money and overextend themselves all at once instead of letting their decisions reflect individual differences and balance each other out to find equilibrium. This creates an unsustainable bump in consumption, which encourages a spike of malinvestment in industry sectors which specifically service this cyclical jump in spending...thereby leading to a "cluster of errors," as the Austrians put it. Moreover, penalizing people for holding onto their money encourages investors to make rash investment decisions to avoid the penalty. You cannot play God with savings vs. spending incentives from a position of central authority and expect to do anything other than cause downard spirals and cyclical disturbances. There has to be a market-driven balance of savings, investment, and spending, and people need to be able to wait for the right opportunities to invest instead of being encouraged to throw their money around.

In short, yes, it WOULD be encouraging malinvestment...just like the inflation tax does today. If a non-inflationary tax somehow encouraged spending the same way without expanding the money supply, then there would be a finite limit to the malinvestment instead of letting it get so out of control, but it would still be present and cause problems of the same nature, if not the same severity.
 
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???

Wow! I did not know a Ron Paul supporter could spout such nonsense. Without consumption there would be no economy to speak of. Just damn!

I didn't say no consumption. I like consumption.

I said consumption is the least harmful to discourage, compared to savings.

Now Keynesian's would have you believe the opposite.

Another thing on the consumption tax-unlike income and property, you at least have some choice on if, when, and how much to pay. As I mentioned earlier, the government will raise taxes at its own peril, because a tax increase is a tax increase on everybody. No more class warfare. No more gaming the system. No more half of the country pays, half doesn't. Corporatist tax gaming gets dismantled.
 
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The fair tax is unacceptable. Back when I was a republican mainstream type I supported it. Then I learned about the crooks that run this country and realized all taxation, especially federal, is unacceptable.
 
A tax that encouraged spending wouldn't be a bad thing. It wouldn't be encouraging malinvestment. What it would do is make it a little more valuable to spend or invest your money than sitting on it. Money doesn't do anyone any good when its sitting under your mattress.

I don't believe anyone should pay taxes who can't afford it.

Encouraged spending helps lead to these boom and bust cycles.

If people prepared for the future, we would have more stability. If people saved, and therefore invested, we would have a stronger economy.
 
That's not savings, that's gambling, in these days and times. Look what happend to 401k's.
Tell me. If a stock goes way up, who's buying them at that price, and when it goes down, who's selling? Then consider the opposite (which is what everyone usually considers first).

I've never heard of a free market person refer to the stock market as gambling. That's just not true. Statistically that's not true if you invest in the long term. The gambling behavior come from people who believe the media when they recommend to buy at the top of a bubble, then sell there investments at the bottom when they should be buying. The media is a whole separate topic and not related to the tax issue.
 
You can also put your money in a bank, and they in turn invest and also put forth loans for the community.
 
Encouraged spending helps lead to these boom and bust cycles.

If people prepared for the future, we would have more stability. If people saved, and therefore invested, we would have a stronger economy.

I classify investing as spending too. My tax plan would encourage investing as opposed to just sitting on your money. There are bubbles, but there are always good places to invest your money. Just because you encourage investment, doesn't mean you have to put it in bad areas. Additionally I'm am only suggesting a small tax. I don't recommend taking all savings.
 
My boyfriend (he posts here more) and I would fully support a third party run.

We think the grassroots would go nuts, (lit fires under our butts), and you'd see effort like you'd never seen before.

Also, as has been mentioned, so many people get involved during political season. Worst case scenario... Dr. Paul wakes up a lot more people.
 
I classify investing as spending too. My tax plan would encourage investing as opposed to just sitting on your money. There are bubbles, but there are always good places to invest your money. Just because you encourage investment, doesn't mean you have to put it in bad areas. Additionally I'm am only suggesting a small tax. I don't recommend taking all savings.
Well, my ideal tax would be small too. Much smaller than the revenue neutral 23% sales tax. The sales tax isn't perfect, but in terms of moral, compliancy, economic, and restraining government aspects, it makes the most sense to me. Also, I will mention that I dislike the flat tax-it is still an income tax.

What would you tax?
 
"Nudging" people to overconsume when they would otherwise save their money - which they need for their future, as evidenced by the fact that they'd save it otherwise - systematically encourages everyone to do the same thing with their money and overextend themselves all at once instead of letting their decisions reflect individual differences and balance each other out to find equilibrium. This creates an unsustainable bump in consumption, which encourages a spike of malinvestment in industry sectors which specifically service this cyclical jump in spending...thereby leading to a "cluster of errors," as the Austrians put it. Moreover, penalizing people for holding onto their money encourages investors to make rash investment decisions to avoid the penalty. You cannot play God with savings vs. spending incentives from a position of central authority and expect to do anything other than cause downard spirals and cyclical disturbances. There has to be a market-driven balance of savings and investment, and people need to be able to wait for the right opportunities to invest instead of being encouraged to throw their money around.

In short, yes, it WOULD be encouraging malinvestment...just like the inflation tax does today. If a non-inflationary tax somehow encouraged spending the same way without expanding the money supply, then there would be a finite limit to the malinvestment instead of letting it get so out of control, but it would still be present and cause problems of the same nature, if not the same severity.

I'm only suggesting a small tax. So people would not be forced to spend if they didn't want to. Plus there are almost always good places to put your money. I'm not forcing anyone to piss away their money. If you want to prevent bubbles and bursts, talk to the media who encourages people to buy at the top and panic at the bottoms.
 
Well, my ideal tax would be small too. Much smaller than the revenue neutral 23% sales tax. The sales tax isn't perfect, but in terms of moral, compliancy, economic, and restraining government aspects, it makes the most sense to me. Also, I will mention that I dislike the flat tax-it is still an income tax.

What would you tax?

Basically net cash earnings after disbursements. In other words a persons free cash flow.
 
Palin would push away a lot of Dems and Indies. I guess it would pick up conservative women and neo-teapartiers?

I'd honestly rather see a Kuchinich as a running mate, just to pull in both sides completely. I know I need to duck flying vegetables right now, but I seriously think a Paul/Kuchinich ticket would pull in a ton of Dems/Indies, whereas a Paul/Palin would push them away.

It would also be a clear statement - we are not partisan. We are post-party politics, and we're here to make a stand.

Paul/Kucinich would be a dream ticket! but I also think GJ has a bit to large of an ego to not make his being the VP part of the deal if he steps down.

That "we are post party politics" needs to be a slogan! Reminds me of that yard sign: I'd a big party and you're not in it! - or something like that... anyone know where to get one?

+rep

-t
 
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