Source Close to Ron Says it's Possible he Could Still be Swayed to Run 3rd Party.......

[wgadget]

I never really thought much of it myself. My point is that there are a lot if people frustrated that it's been cast into the dustbin, and who would jump at the chance to vote for someone who would push for it.

 

[Jordan Liberty]

A 23% sales tax would destroy the economy. Where did you get that percentage?

Check out fairtax.org. GJ and other fair tax advocates feel that the income tax and IRS should be eliminated and replaced with the fair tax. Under the fair tax your pay check is paid in full, but you will pay a national sales tax. The sales tax is 23% but the government would give each household a yearly "prebate" the amount of which would be be paid for all applicable taxes, up to the poverty line. So those living at the poverty line would effectivley be paying a 0% tax with this prebate. Only those who make more money and spend extravagant amounts of money will ever actually be taxed that full 23%. So basically you'll be taxed on spending, not your production. This also encourages illegal immigrants to become legal because if you're an illegal immigrant you won't get the government prebate and would have to pay the fair tax in full.

 

[sailingaway]

Check out fairtax.org. GJ and other fair tax advocates feel that the income tax and IRS should be eliminated and replaced with the fair tax. Under the fair tax your pay check is paid in full, but you will pay a national sales tax. The sales tax is 23% but the government would give each household a yearly "prebate" the amount of which would be be paid for all applicable taxes, up to the poverty line. So those living at the poverty line would effectivley be paying a 0% tax with this prebate. Only those who make more money and spend extravagant amounts of money will ever actually be taxed that full 23%. So basically you'll be taxed on spending, not your production. This also encourages illegal immigrants to become legal because if you're an illegal immigrant you won't get the government prebate and would have to pay the fair tax in full.

My understanding is that they agree that 'in the first ten years' there would ALSO have to be an income tax. I think we'd just end up with both. If it ACTUALLY got rid of the income tax it might be different. Too many have been pushing for both for too long for me to be actively in favor of that. Having said that, if it ACTUALLY happened in a way that reduced the tax burden I'd be for it when it came up. but my belief is congress uses 'popular programs' like that as trojan horses to say they passed it while actually adding stuff it is otherwise hard to pass because it is awful.

 

[sailingaway]

Well, supposedly there would be no other taxes. Ron has said it would be a good first step.

Ron has said essentially what I said. If it showed up more like the image of it and less like the lengthy details, absolutely getting RID of income tax, he'd vote for it, but he doesn't push it because he has other ideas he thinks are more likely to get us to a better tax situation. I think once they started conceding they'd need BOTH taxes to start, Ron lost interest.

 

[tttppp]

Check out fairtax.org. GJ and other fair tax advocates feel that the income tax and IRS should be eliminated and replaced with the fair tax. Under the fair tax your pay check is paid in full, but you will pay a national sales tax. The sales tax is 23% but the government would give each household a yearly "prebate" the amount of which would be be paid for all applicable taxes, up to the poverty line. So those living at the poverty line would effectivley be paying a 0% tax with this prebate. Only those who make more money and spend extravagant amounts of money will ever actually be taxed that full 23%. So basically you'll be taxed on spending, not your production. This also encourages illegal immigrants to become legal because if you're an illegal immigrant you won't get the government prebate and would have to pay the fair tax in full.

That's just a terrible idea. That could kill the economy. I've always disagreed with Johnson on a sales tax. But I figured he'd also keep the rate low, eliminate the income tax, and dramatically reduce spending.

A sales tax is just bad economics. I don't know what kind of economist would recommend it.

 

[Jordan Liberty]

Did not know that. Being double taxed would be just awful and for 10 years! Yeah, I would not be into that. I just started learning about the fair tax and still am not completely in favor of it, but I still find it better than what we have right now.

My understanding is that they agree that 'in the first ten years' there would ALSO have to be an income tax. I think we'd just end up with both. If it ACTUALLY got rid of the income tax it might be different. Too many have been pushing for both for too long for me to be actively in favor of that. Having said that, if it ACTUALLY happened in a way that reduced the tax burden I'd be for it when it came up. but my belief is congress uses 'popular programs' like that as trojan horses to say they passed it while actually adding stuff it is otherwise hard to pass because it is awful.

 

[Ender]

OMG

I just found out that GJ is strongly for the FAIR TAX, which many people around here are for. Combine that with their pro 2nd Amendment stance and I think even Clint Eastwood would support a Paul/Johnson ticket.

The FAIR TAX is a pile of crap- no true libertarian/constitutionalist/real conservative should ever be in favor of it.

 

[opal]

"There will be many weeks to coalesce behind Gary Johnson. "

um... yeah.. not for me

 

[jolynna]

Isn't the FAIR tax at this point a 23% sales tax ON TOP of an income tax? Do you think we'd ever get rid of either?

My understanding is that it is INSTEAD OF, not ON TOP OF. If you spend less you pay less. Buy a private jet and you'll be taxed.

 

[wgadget]

I just read on DP that a VAT (tax) is in the GOP platform.

Haha.

 

[sailingaway]

My understanding is that it is INSTEAD OF, not ON TOP OF. If you spend less you pay less. Buy a private jet and you'll be taxed.

My understanding is that that was the original theory and is now the 'downline goal' but not how it is in the early years. I just don't think we'd get to the later years. Right now people don't have and are refusing ANY national sales tax, once one is on WITH an income tax, I just don't think DC will give either up.

If it actually got rid of income tax in a way they couldn't just bring it back, I'd feel differently about it.

 

[sailingaway]

I just read on DP that a VAT (tax) is in the GOP platform.

Haha.

Who added that gem, I wonder?

Absolutely not our people.

 

[GeorgiaAvenger]

Isn't the FAIR tax at this point a 23% sales tax ON TOP of an income tax? Do you think we'd ever get rid of either?

I am a proponent of the FairTax over our current system. It is about the system of taxation, not the level.

The FairTax abolishes every single federal government tax, and replaces it with a national sales tax.

Though it is revenue neutral, I would argue that it would keep the government more in check, because any time it raises taxes, everybody, rich-middle class-poor, will all feel it and put pressure on the government to keep taxes down. There are many more advantages, from an economic standpoint it incentives saving as opposed to current consumption incentives. It saves billions on compliance costs and abolishes the IRS-gestapo agency.

 

[TruckinMike]

Down side to the Fair tax -- Imagine the erosion of your financial privacy. Sell a used lawn mower and get a visit from the jack boot wearing FTA (Fair Tax Administration) auditing your sale. Don't forget, they most likely would be able to enter your home because IT would be considered your place of business. Expect many ransackings.

edit:

But what the hell, I guess its better than the IRS.

 

[ronpaulfollower999]

There is no such thing as a "fair" tax.

 

[eleganz]

back to the topic of the thread:

1) sore loser laws DO NOT apply to presidential elections, correct?
2) if ron wanted to and gary johnson wanted to, gary johnson and his vp could both step down for Ron, correct?
3) there wouldnt be any sore loser laws to prevent ron's name from showing up on all 50 states? or can we not change the name from gary johnson to ron paul?

 

[svf]

Sell a used lawn mower and get a visit from the jack boot wearing FTA (Fair Tax Administration) auditing your sale.

The FAIR tax does suck, though less than the income tax - but just to be clear it would not tax used goods (supposedly).

http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=about_faq_answers

The FairTax is a single-rate, federal retail sales tax collected only once, at the final point of purchase of new goods and services for personal consumption. Used items are not taxed. Business-to-business purchases for the production of goods and services are not taxed. A rebate makes the effective rate progressive.

 

[tttppp]

I am a proponent of the FairTax over our current system. It is about the system of taxation, not the level.

The FairTax abolishes every single federal government tax, and replaces it with a national sales tax.

Though it is revenue neutral, I would argue that it would keep the government more in check, because any time it raises taxes, everybody, rich-middle class-poor, will all feel it and put pressure on the government to keep taxes down. There are many more advantages, from an economic standpoint it incentives saving as opposed to current consumption incentives. It saves billions on compliance costs and abolishes the IRS-gestapo agency.

It also encourages people to not exchange money. That is not a positive thing. I could tolerate a sales tax if it was a substantial tax reduction. Having a revenue neutral sales tax would completely fuck us. I thought GJ was in favor of reducing spending. If so, why is he keeping taxes so high.

The best tax plan would encourage people to spend money, not to save it.

 

[Carehn]

Maybe he will run to stop mittens from winning so rand will have a chance in for years

 

[WhistlinDave]

So has everybody saying you would support Ron running 3rd party contacted GJ and RP as outlined in the post from DP in the OP in this thread? If you haven't, why not? They both need to hear from us if we want this to happen!! Anybody have e-mail addresses for GJ and RP that we could add to this?


From the Daily Paul:

CALL GARY AND ASK HIM TO REITERATE TO RON HE WILL STEP ASIDE IF RON WANTS TO RUN LIBERTARIAN:

Gary Johnson Contact Info: (801) 303-7922

CALL RON AT BOTH OFFICES AND TELL HIM TO RUN AS THE LIBERTARIAN CANDIDATE. MAKE SURE YOU SAY YOU ARE REPUBLICAN, IF IN FACT YOU ARE, AND TELL HIM WE WILL SUPPORT HIM, DONATE, WORK, AND DO EVERYTHING YOU CAN TO HELP. HE NEEDS TO BE IN THE DEBATES AND HE IS THE ONLY PERSON THAT WOULD HAVE A SHOT AT BEING INCLUDED.

Again, from what I have been told he may be able to be swayed, Let's sway him! Email and fax too if you have time!

Ron Paul Contact Info:
Washington DC: (202) 225-2831
Lake Jackson, Texas: (979) 285-0231
Victoria, Texas: (361) 576-1231

2012 Presidential Campaign Office: 1-703-563-6620