jmdrake
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Except the article glosses over atrocities committed by Christians and dwells solely on atrocities committed by muslims, so how is it helpful?
Son of Hamas co-founder Warns the US: Muslims Want 'Global Islamic State'; US Fooled
- Thread starter FrankRep
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Except the article glosses over atrocities committed by Christians and dwells solely on atrocities committed by muslims, so how is it helpful?
jmdrake
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Good point.
I can go to any library and read volumes about how evil Christians are and why the religion should be destroyed. This is only an article, not a 5,000 page book, written mainly as an inspirational piece for Christians dealing with this bloody time in history.
The point, however, is to show the tensions between Christianity and Islam. That was the entire point.
jmdrake
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Yeah, and I can go to a library and rad volumes about Christians attempting to wipe out Jews, Muslims and other Christians. And why is this article an "inspirational piece"? How is it supposed to "inspire" Christians and to what end? Most protestants reject the "Christianity" of this period anyway. That's why we broke off from the Catholic church. And yes there were protestant leaders that ended up doing things just as evil. (Oliver Cromwell). I suppose I could post an article justifying Cromwell that tried to explain away the killings of Catholic nuns and monks also. Would you find that inspirational? Sorry, but if I want to be "inspired" its not going to be reading stories about "Christians" engaged in violence in the name of the Prince of Peace. You want inspiration? Read articles about Christians carrying out ministry against tough economic and political odds in Muslim dominated countries. Like this article of a protestant Christian hospital that operated in Afghanistan throughout the years of the Taliban.
http://www.adventistreview.org/2005-1510/story1.html
The Christian faith was never meant to be one rooted in violence. And yet it became that as soon as it became wed to the Roman state. And the violence happened before there was any "Muslim threat". Again, Constantine killed a lot of other Christians who did not toe the official line.
Anyway, enough about the silly article. Back to my question for you. What difference should it make in my life if I believe this Mossad double agent? What policy should I advocate based on that belief? I know you're not an interventionist, but I know that Israel wants a war with Iran and this is Israel's agent speaking. But what do you want? Should I call for a ban on any immigration from Muslim countries? Should I call for a moratorium on all mosques? Should I call for textbooks to be written to put the catholic church in the best possible light and ignore all of the reasons that led to the reformation in the first place? Is this a time for "Christian solidarity" against the "evil Muslim threat"? Do you believe that Christianity just can't compete in the free marketplace of ideas?
Now before you accuse me of "putting something on you", I am asking you these questions to get you to stake SOMETHING of a position. If you feel this so called "muslim takeover plan" is a real threat the certainly you have some way you'd like people to address the threat. Otherwise it's a waste of time to even talk about it.
Lastly, when are you going to address the question of Fox News funding source? I mean if the threat is from a Muslim takeover the surely you are concerned about the 2nd largest shareholder of Fox News not only being Muslim but allegedly funding radical madrases. Have you connected the dots on that yet?
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teacherone
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frank is like those anarchists that post mises articles without reading them or understanding them.
every article he pastes here is from the same source-- cult-like and scary. when challenged he returns to his only source of information, searches it for a rebuttal, then copies and pastes again.
copy and paste, copy and paste... no need to think or engage one's brain.
let the demagogues and the biased do the thinking for you.
every article he pastes here is from the same source-- cult-like and scary. when challenged he returns to his only source of information, searches it for a rebuttal, then copies and pastes again.
copy and paste, copy and paste... no need to think or engage one's brain.
let the demagogues and the biased do the thinking for you.
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Others could point to the Ron Paul Movement and call it a Cult. You could call religion a cult too. That's fine, whatever...
The Cult of Ron Paul Is It Funny or Just a Little Bit Spooky?
http://thepinkflamingo.blogharbor.com/blog/_archives/2007/9/8/3217362.html
Ron Paul’s Cult Effect
http://thedemocraticdaily.com/2007/10/29/ron-pauls-cult-effect/
jmdrake
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The problem isn't that you are part of the JBS. I know JBS members that can clearly and plainly articulate their positions. And some of them take quite different positions from your cut-and-paste job. The problem is that you aren't articulating any of your own views. Are there Ron Paul fanatics that do that? Sure. And it's a problem.
I'll ask you again. What do you think people should do about supposed "world wide muslim conspiracy" even if the information is accurate? And how do you explain the fact that muslims today spend more time killing other muslims than they do Christians or Jews if they were all united in this worldwide takeover plot? Your ideas please.
Live_Free_Or_Die
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Yup. Christians are no better and want to take over the world for Jesus.
jmdrake
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Well we are supposed to attempt this only through peaceful persuation, and moving on to the next house / town when we are not received. That's how Christians initially subsumed the Roman empire. The Crusades were really a representation of Christian appostasy, no better than the indulengences that Martin Luther preached against.
Attacking me for posting articles? Come on!
Many times you try to guess (wrongly) what my views are when, in reality, I'm just adding more information to the table. I try to separate my views from the article being posted.
I don't know what people should do about it, but I would suggest to people to analyze and understand the situation before they react illogically or destructively. I personally don't believe "Islam is a religion Peace" and I don't believe "every Muslim" is radically dedicated to spreading Islam throughout the earth by peace or force.
I think Christians should rededicate themselves to Jesus to repent of their sins and spread the message of Jesus throughout the world. Bring the Muslims, Jews, and Pagans to the one true God. Christians need to take back what Satan, the king of this fallen world, has taken from them and rebuild God's kingdom and place Jesus above all other names. I doubt you would agree with that, jmdrake.
reduen
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True Christians are better than Muslims in this regard as we are taught by Lord Jesus no to be violent....
One should not just arbitrarily group all "Christians" together, rather one should study the teachings of Jesus. He is the master of our faith and not his "followers"...
Mexicans want to take over the southern United States, the Vatican wants to rule the world along with the bankers and other elite and our government want to rule and control us from cradle to grave... Which group should we really be more afraid of....??????
One should not just arbitrarily group all "Christians" together, rather one should study the teachings of Jesus. He is the master of our faith and not his "followers"...
Mexicans want to take over the southern United States, the Vatican wants to rule the world along with the bankers and other elite and our government want to rule and control us from cradle to grave... Which group should we really be more afraid of....??????
reduen
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+ Alpha & Omega.......!
Attacking me for posting articles? Come on!
Many times you try to guess (wrongly) what my views are when, in reality, I'm just adding more information to the table. I try to separate my views from the article being posted.
I don't know what people should do about it, but I would suggest to people to analyze and understand the situation before they react illogically or destructively. I personally don't believe "Islam is a religion Peace" and I don't believe "every Muslim" is radically dedicated to spreading Islam throughout the earth by peace or force.
I think Christians should rededicate themselves to Jesus to repent of their sins and spread the message of Jesus throughout the world. Bring the Muslims, Jews, and Pagans to the one true God. Christians need to take back what Satan, the king of this fallen world, has taken from them and rebuild God's kingdom and place Jesus above all other names. I doubt you would agree with that, jmdrake.
lucius
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Exactly, the real terrorists are in Washington/Israel...
'Fool us once': June 8, 1967...go ahead google it...
"Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it." (Matthew 10:34-39 NASB)
Then Jesus asked them, "When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?"
"Nothing," they answered.
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'[a]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." (Luke 22:35-37 NIV)
"Nothing," they answered.
He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one. It is written: 'And he was numbered with the transgressors'[a]; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment." (Luke 22:35-37 NIV)
Is Christianity a religion of peace?
Jesus answers: "I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."
Smashing idols on other religions and gods has been a long practiced tradition in Judeo-Christian culture. Just read the old testament.
lester1/2jr
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"The Muslims and Christians have been at war for over a 1000 years"
I'm a christian and I'm not at war with islam
I'm a christian and I'm not at war with islam
Is Christianity the only true religion and those who haven't accept Jesus as their personal lord and saviour going to hell?
Jesus Said: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (John 14:6)
That question will separate out the Christian posers from the true followers of Christ.
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jmdrake
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Straw man Frank and you know it. I'm not "attacking you for posting articles". I said that was a GOOD thing. Some of your articles are very helpful. I'm criticizing you for not taking the next logical step and evaluating your own articles and presenting your own independent analysis. When someone attacks the veracity of your article your response is....post another article, or find some minor element of "truth" in the article to defend even if that's not the main point of the article.
Fine. So what is your view in this case? Put your view on the table and there is no need to "guess". You found the crusade article "inspirational". Why? You think the information from the Mossad double agent should be taken seriously. Why? There's a lot of information that can be "thrown on the table". Someone can cut and paste a copy of Das Capital or Mein Kampf or "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" or the entire works of William Shakespeare. But is it all just "noise" or is it being posted?
Ok fine. Part of my analysis is that I find no reason to take this Mossad double agent seriously. For one thing he could simply be lying. For another he view of muslims could be warped by his own radical father. Maybe Yassin's goal was a "worldwide caliphate", but that doesn't mean the rest of the muslim world is/was in cahoots with him.
Anyway, your "belief" is similar to mine. Islam isn't a religion of peace, but then Judaism never was one either and Christianity hasn't been one the way it has been practiced for the past dozen centuries. (Ok, my view is slightly different from yours because I didn't single out Islam). I totally agree with you that every muslim is not dedicated to spreading Islam throughout the world. But then that kind of undercuts the thesis in the OP! Oh I know. You just put it out there for "information". Well what I take from this "information" is that some people are engaged in fear mongering that is counter productive to the interests of the United States.
Anyway, glad to get your take.
I think Christians should rededicate themselves to Jesus to repent of their sins and spread the message of Jesus throughout the world. Bring the Muslims, Jews, and Pagans to the one true God. Christians need to take back what Satan, the king of this fallen world, has taken from them and rebuild God's kingdom and place Jesus above all other names. I doubt you would agree with that, jmdrake.
Did you mean to say "I doubt you would disagree with that"? Anyway, I don't. As long as this is done through the methods outlined by Jesus (peaceful persuasion and moving on to the next home / town if you aren't accepted) then I agree. I also think Christians should repent of their sins. The crusades were a sin against Jesus that stained His good name. The idea of His followers fighting over His birthplace is an anathema to everything He stood for. The only crusades that inspire me are the ones done by Billy Graham. (And before someone jumps in and slams B.G., I'm not saying he's perfect. Just that his method is one acceptable way to advance Christianity IMO).
jmdrake
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Do you think Jesus meant for men to use a literal sword against their fathers or for women to use a literal sword against their mothers and mother-in-laws? Really Frank, I've seen atheists twist this verse around but this is the first time I've seen a professed Christian do it.
Anyway, if you want to understand Matthew 10:34-39, you should also read this:
Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
I'm pretty sure that Jesus expected His followers to use the scriptures in relation to their mothers, fathers and in-laws and not to go around killing them with literal swords. If you believe otherwise all I can say is....
Yep. Nothing wrong with self defense. That didn't mean Jesus expected His followers to go on the offense.
John 18:36 (New International Version)
36Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."
John 18:9-11 (New International Version)
9This happened so that the words he had spoken would be fulfilled: "I have not lost one of those you gave me."[a]
10Then Simon Peter, who had a sword, drew it and struck the high priest's servant, cutting off his right ear. (The servant's name was Malchus.)
11Jesus commanded Peter, "Put your sword away! Shall I not drink the cup the Father has given me?"
Again. Atheist misinterpret the scriptures the way you are doing now. Unless you think Jesus endorsed patricide you are really stepping out on a limb.
And in the Old Testament stoning women caught in adultery was a "long practiced tradition". What did Jesus say about tradition? "In vain do they worship Me, teaching for doctrine the traditions of men."
Look at how Jesus dealt with the tradition of stoning adulteresses.
John 8:3-11
3And the scribes and Pharisees brought unto him a woman taken in adultery; and when they had set her in the midst,
4They say unto him, Master, this woman was taken in adultery, in the very act.
5Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
8And again he stooped down, and wrote on the ground.
9And they which heard it, being convicted by their own conscience, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest, even unto the last: and Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.
10When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
11She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
AGAIN, I posted the bible verse to show that Christianity is NOT a religion of peace.
AGAIN, you're debating a claim I did NOT make. You guessed (wrong) about my personal opinions.
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