So now what?

[Bastiat's The Law]

Ron Paul doesn't have just one plan and you really shouldn't pretend he does. He doesn't order people around like you do.

I never heard Ron Paul give a speech about reforming the Socialist Party or the Green Party. Heard him encourage us into the republican party.

 

[LibertyRevolution]

This is how I feel about Ron Paul saying he doesn't want to be nominated from the floor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rApjT3iWU_E#t=416s

 

[coffeewithchess]

I don't think Ron watched his campaign, I think he got periodic reports that didn't contain what we felt was important, personally. He said over and over that he had professionals in his campaign and he did what he did and they did what they did.

It's his name/campaign and his responsibility. He can only play the "I didn't write those" cards so many times...it really is ridiculous.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Agree 100%. A candidate with a strong personality and deep pockets could indeed have shaken things up this year. But the GOP & DNC tightened up the rules after Perot almost embarrassed them. At this point, I just don't think a candidate could even get in the debates, much less develop effective strategies and recruit staff in time.

I think we've gone full circle back to the mystery billionaire.

 

[sailingaway]

I never heard Ron Paul give a speech about reforming the Socialist Party or the Green Party. Heard him encourage us into the republican party.

I've specifically on multiple occasions heard him say we need people working within all the parties, that this is an American message, not just a GOP message.

Most here will likely work in the GOP because Ron is a Republican and we are. But others who work in other ways are welcome too.

 

[sailingaway]

This is how I feel about Ron Paul saying he doesn't want to be nominated from the floor:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rApjT3iWU_E#t=416s

He never said it, it was cleared up as a miscommunication by a staffer who just felt saying that would make people not try.

 

[Carlybee]

Well that's fine if we disagree. I wish those who want to discourage would go away from a movement that is prospering. Leave us up to the decision to push ahead, if you decide to stay behind. Is that wrong?

How is speaking the truth discouragement? Should I lie?? Should I let you tell me that my last 8 yrs trying to promote the ideals of liberty don't matter? Should I forget what happened this week?

 

[Michigan11]

the movement contains different parts not JUST working within the GOP, and I wouldn't like any solid forum member who is pursuing liberty in its other facets to be squeezed out PARTICULARLY in this subforum. Many dumping on those who are currently upset have been in here repeatedly trying to get people to work on other things instead. It is clear those people aren't as emotionally invested in RON's campaign and those who are as far as I'm concerned have priority to his own subforum through Tampa without being hounded to leave because they don't agree with a faction of people here on next steps.

Sailingaway, it's clear this central forum needs to be cleaned up and many are voicing it. This forum is not clearly representing the main activity of the forum in general at this point.

 

[Carlybee]

Well that's fine if we disagree. I wish those who want to discourage would go away from a movement that is prospering. Leave us up to the decision to push ahead, if you decide to stay behind. Is that wrong?

How is speaking the truth discouragement? Should I lie?? Should I let you tell me that my last 8 yrs trying to promote the ideals of liberty don't matter? Should I forget what happened this week?

 

[sailingaway]

It's his name/campaign and his responsibility. He can only play the "I didn't write those" cards so many times...it really is ridiculous.

Except that he was completely transparent from the start that he was never going to manage it in that sense. If we wanted him we had to take him as he was. It is a 'flaw' in a sense but also just part of who he is, and I still consider him the man I want as candidate any time. Even with that flaw. But I really want a true believer at his elbow communicating with us not someone who thinks our concerns are petty and unimportant so doesn't address them, or worse, patronizes them with canned rhetoric

 

[coffeewithchess]

If you think Ron and Rand never communicate, or that Ron is politically insufficient, and he would rather have everyone do as he does, you aren't seeing the play going on. Politics, is a 3 dimensional chess board, and Ron knows damn well what Rand is doing and vice versa. This isn't anything new. Both are fully for freedom and liberty

Oh, I think Ron and Rand do communicate, and Ron knew about Rand's endorsement before it happened just as Rand said, which is why the campaign asking for more money after that and Ron Paul's official campaign website being used to defend Rand's endorsement was dishonest. The fact they stayed in the race and kept raising/asking for money misleading donors they were serious about winning, doesn't bode well for Ron or Rand.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

What is yours? You've only been here since April. What is your agenda? What is your motive? Why do you treat people like sheep if you don't think they are sheep? You don't give them the benefit of the doubt to form their own opinions. Why do you insist on the authoritarianism to get your point across? Don't you believe your own rhetoric?

I've been at this game longer than April. Some take the fight to pavement, others post on forums.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

What is Ron Paul's plan though? Saying one thing, and doing another doesn't help. Abandoning delegates and not trying to win the election? Sitting by silently, allowing your campaign to completely collapse, and not saying anything for more than a week after Rand's endorsement?
The Ron Paul 2012 campaign, did more to destroy the "movement" it had built up, than the MSM could ever have done, which is really unfortunate.

I'd be happy to discuss the short comings of the campaign on another thread or in a PM.

 

[coffeewithchess]

I did make allowances for the fact that I consider you sincere and knew you were upset. We WANT people to be passionate about this -- at least, I do.

Allowances? For what? I didn't curse, curse at anybody, or call anybody a name. LOL.

 

[Carlybee]

I've been at this game longer than April. Some take the fight to pavement, others post on forums.

I really could care less if you were the pilot of the Ron Paul blimp. I dislike your methods and frankly think your people skills suck. I've been at it a while too and nothing you say is going to have any effect on me nor am I going to let you try and intimidate me into sucking GOP ....well I'll just stop there and try to figure out how to put you on ignore.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Why are YOU beating on people? Both of these people strongly support Ron.

Not beating anyone, only responding to 24/7 defeatists with an agenda.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Hat tip to pcosmar

 

[Carlybee]

Sailingaway, it's clear this central forum needs to be cleaned up and many are voicing it. This forum is not clearly representing the main activity of the forum in general at this point.

And there are plenty more who agree there are many unanswered questions...I know because I get +repped on my comments by people who I don't see posting. I think it's shabby that some of you are questioning the moderator and basically trying to take over the forum.

 

[sailingaway]

Sailingaway, it's clear this central forum needs to be cleaned up and many are voicing it. This forum is not clearly representing the main activity of the forum in general at this point.

this is not 'the central forum' it is the Ron Paul 2012 grass roots forum. Before Ron ran it wasn't up here. It was created for the campaign, and for Ron. It is central in that it is the most popular but that doesn't mean it is a different purposed forum.

General politics can be used for general matters. 2012 candidates can be used for all things 2012 candidates related including grass roots projects. If it gets more popular, I am sure subforums will be added. But you can't come where people are on one message and just say 'look at all the people here, lets make this forum about something else'.

 

[Bastiat's The Law]

Well that's fine if we disagree. I wish those who want to discourage would go away from a movement that is prospering. Leave us up to the decision to push ahead, if you decide to stay behind. Is that wrong?

I'd +Rep you but I'm out