So are we done ignoring the Evangelicals?

[Redcard]

Evangelists held strong sway in Iowa...but they won't just about everywhere else.

Yeah. Keep telling yourself that. We Gay Democrats did in 2004 when Bush got out the bigot vote.

 

[Maltheus]

Are atheists atheists because they don't believe in God, or because they are bitter about Christianity?

Well, I'm an agnostic, not an atheist (who are no different than evangelicals in my book), but I do think I can speak to the mistrust of Christians in this country. And I didn't really understand it until I moved to the town Focus on the Family is headquartered in.

I was raised Catholic, so I have some familiarity with the bible. I've also take a couple comparative religion courses back in my college days. I think I get the gist of Jesus' message. But I have born agains often try to convert me here and they always come across as the most passive-aggressive people I've ever met. They'll preach the message of Jesus openly, but when they talk about anything else, I only ever hear the vile hated come out of their mouths. They also seem to be the biggest war mongers in the country. How could anyone think that Jesus would support a pre-emptive war?? How could they think that Jesus would support the death penalty?? My understanding of his message is that it's what's in your heart that's most important.

I guess for me, so many of my encounters with Christians have been a lesson in hypocrisy. I know there are all sorts out there, including many who have truly internalized the teaching of Christ, but most of them are what I call 'Authoritarians.' They demand obedience to the state and obedience to the church. If you try to pass them, when they're going 10 miles under the speed limit in the passing lane (Jesus fish cars), they speed up to prevent that, get in front of you, and then slam on their breaks to demand obedience from you. Quite frankly, they offend my libertarian sensibilities.

That being said, I am against abortion (for logical reasons) and I have no problem with prayer in school (especially if we get rid of public schools). As long as you don't tread on me and mine, I have no problems with how others choose to live their lives. Unfortunately Christians, in this country, tend to be represented by the loudest and most full of crap among the flock. I kind of wish Paul would mention his faith a little more just to show that other side of faith that we non-religious types rarely get to see.

 

[loupeznik]

Q: So are we done ignoring the Evangelicals?

A: No.

 

[Maltheus]

Ask are they a Christian? The only people I could think of that would do that are born again Christians. They believe a religion is just rules you follow trying to get to heaven. Instead they believe that having a relationship with Jesus is how to get to heaven.

I've also had five percenters do that to me. I ask if they're Muslim and they say no, Islam is just a science to them. I'm pretty sure I've had a pentecostal caller say they aren't a religion as well (and I don't think they are technically born-agains). I kind of wish they'd decide on a new term for people who believe in gods, if 'religious' ain't gonna do it no more. You know, a catch-all term so I don't have to go down the list of faiths, one by one.

 

[politicsNproverbs]

We need to be more focused on the church goers.

It is very simple to win over the religious right ...
[...]
...IF, they ask about either Huckabee ...
- Huckabee has been investigated on ethics commissions many many times
- Huckabee has pardoned criminals who later went on to brake the law again
- That Huckabee is probably trying to do what he thinks is best, but you cant ethically see yourself voting for him.

It could be added to that list that Huckabee is cozying up to the CFR and they to him (not a good "sign" for Christians who appreciate prophecy, and are "awake" to the 'One World Gov't System'):

"Huckabee Names CFR President, Richard Haas, As One of His Chief Policy Advisers" - CNN Video, December 16, 2007 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_BucPcJrHI&eurl=http://truthinourtime.blogspot.com/2008/01/council-on-foreign-relations-advises.html

If they are not familiar with the implications of the CFR, this article is as good as any, and is written by a Christian website: "COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS A MAJOR KEY IN THE DRIVE TO THE NEW WORLD ORDER" http://cuttingedge.org/news/n1191.cfm

Also, quoting from that Christian website article about Huckabee:

To buttress the reality that Mike Huckabee is supportive of the CFR and is now supported by that organization, we need to briefly address the issue that Huckabee has an article in the February, 2008, edition of the Council on Foreign Relations magazine!

NEWS BRIEF: "America's Priorities in the War on Terror: Islamists, Iraq, Iran, and Pakistan", Foreign Affairs, published by the Council on Foreign Relations, February, 2008http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20080101faessay87112/michael-d-huckabee/america-s-priorities-in-the-war-on-terror.html
"Summary: The Bush administration's arrogant bunker mentality has been counterproductive at home and abroad. American foreign policy needs to change its tone and attitude, open up, and reach out. In particular, it should focus on eliminating Islamist terrorists, stabilizing Iraq, containing Iran, and toughening its stance with Pakistan."
"MICHAEL D. HUCKABEE, former Governor of Arkansas, is a candidate for the Republican presidential nomination."

[...]

Again, no one whom the CFR does not support would be allowed to write an article in its flagship magazine, Foreign Affairs. Ignore the public rhetoric which would lead you to believe that Mike Huckabee supports your Christian viewpoint, for the facts are now screaming very loudly that the contrary is true.

[...]

Be sure to click on Baldwin's hot link of Mike Huckabee's speech to the Council on Foreign Relations on September 28, 2007 http://www.cfr.org/publication/14335/, for you will discover for yourself that Huckabee is simply spouting the Establishment rhetoric about Iraq, Iran, and al-Qaeda terrorism...

[...]

... a person does not even get to the point of being able to address the CFR unless he is sold out to their plan -- even if the sellout is strictly kept secret. We must pay attention to what people do and not to just what they say. That failure is the reason so many Christians even today consider Bush a genuine Christian believer and follower.

I know it's a lot of info, but it would be good if anyone ever has opportunity to get into an indepth chat with an interested Christian/Huckabee-supporter, and/or possibly include these few snippets in any printout or flyer.

That info came from this weekend's CuttingEdge.org newsletter but I wouldn't suggest you share the entire article because the author, former Army Intelligence and Christian (Baptist I think), does not vote anymore because due to his own research into the NWO since 1988, he feels all presidential campaigns are rigged. So I wouldn't share all of it, but the Huckabee/CFR portions are "solid gold," imho, and I only provided the source of the info for documentation purposes.

 

[politicsNproverbs]

...a large part of the christians want more theocratic fascism, and there's no pandering Ron Paul can do to appeal to them. There's a long way from fascism to liberty.

Maybe "going in the back door" might help. Instead of starting with what is wrong about their position, start with what is right, ie, we could ask or show them that what they actually DO want IS liberty and freedom (if they believe their own bibles, that is: Gal. 5:1; John 8:32), even if they don't realize it in a "Ron Paul sense" at first.

The sad thing is, what the "Kingdom Dominionist" crowd has been/is being taught by their wolves-leaders is that the "Kingdom of God" they are trying to "force into existence" via "human measures" ("theocratic fascism") is really none other than the very same counterfeit New World Order/One World Gov't. of the power-elite. But I could bet most, if not all Christians sitting under that erroneous-teaching, don't have a clue of the connection between the two. :o

 

[constituent]

Um... okay.



Why is it that when I respond honestly I get this moral highground stuff? It's like Christian people cannot open their mouths without someone saying we're trying to make off like we're better. I just want to go on a forum without someone trying to make me out to be a country bumpkin with mush for brains because I believe in my Creator.

If I replied to this thread saying something offensive to Christians I would have gotten a dozen LOLs.

1) and then you pull the ann coulter "you're attacking me personally" c'mon.
you drop a totally lame, collectivist troll of a post talking mad trash about everyone,
attacking some figment of your imagination, rhetorically at that!

i didn't say you were trying to make off like you were better, though i could see how some might take that away from the experience of reading your OP

2) not from me you wouldn't have. this forum would be well served if folks would stop lumping people into these groups that (don't exist in reality) are merely figments of their imagination, and then attacking those people for being part of said groups.

bummin' me out.

 

[constituent]

Allowing politicking from the pulpit just means that church leaders ought to be able to preach areas of their faith that cross into political grounds without fear of government intervention. That is a guarantee of the first amendment and consistent with his constitutional principles.

+1000


says it all really, thanks royalshock!

 

[LFOD]

The real question is "Are Evangelicals done ignoring Ron Paul?"

The answer is "no" and will continue to be "no" unless/until Huckabee drops out.

 

[BeFranklin]

Odd comments since by definition Ron Paul is an evangelical.

I just wrote an article about this issue, and the bias of the media *against* Christians as well.

It relates somewhat to the topic described here. And describes a related issue: 'big religion' versus 'small religion', and
how big religion is often related to big government.

Tolerance is the key to small religion and freedom.

Direct link is http://www.nolanchart.com/article926.html

Digg (above): http://digg.com/arts_culture/Media_Bias_It_isn_t_always_about_Politics

 

[flufbus]

We ignore evangelicals because we don't mix religion and politics, PERIOD.

 

[politicsNproverbs]

When you try to be everything to everyone, you end up being nothing to no one.

Right, try not to be everything to EVERYONE, but try for only ONE person at a time... much less painful that way.

"I have become all things to all men, so that I may by all means save some." - 1 Cor. 9:22

Or "convert some" from Muckabee to RP...

 

[politicsNproverbs]

Although we can reach out to them, EvanJihadis are a bunch of brainwashed folks. They can't be "re-programmed" to the message of peace & liberty.

Oooh, I dunno... there's ALWAYS HOPE, imo. The problem is their lack of awareness and self-education of what is going on in the world and more specifically, in the USA. Education is always the key to de-programming.

 

[liberty_Forever]

Ignoring the evangelicals is stupid move. They would support Paul if they knew he was a devout Christian and supporter their rights to practice their faith in peace.

 

[cheese]

great vid

 

[politicsNproverbs]

The question though is an honest one, and one that hasn't ever been answered for me.

Why is it that when I respond honestly I get this moral highground stuff? It's like Christian people cannot open their mouths without someone saying we're trying to make off like we're better. I just want to go on a forum without someone trying to make me out to be a country bumpkin with mush for brains because I believe in my Creator.

If I replied to this thread saying something offensive to Christians I would have gotten a dozen LOLs.

That, and your first post, ChelC, all true, agree, not just on this forum, but in most all forums across the internet [which I have visited] I find this to be true. Whoa Nellie! Don't talk about Jesus, God, Bible, Christianity, etc., not even between TWO posters on a forum who might WANT to talk about these subjects, because all the God-haters will come rushing in like a flood and start shooting with both barrels, and they can be very mean, hateful, and nasty. And what for?

It's everywhere.

It's a sign of the times.

"Jesus" is no longer "politically correct."

And it's a real drag, indeed.

But not surprising.

"Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?" {rage: or, tumultuously assemble}-(KJV) Psalms 2:1

 

[DeadtoSin]

As a Christian, I understand that my beliefs affect who I like and who I vote for. How can you say they don't mix?

As an atheist, if you do not believe in evolution, and a man comes up there and tells you how stupid evolution is and how creationism is the only true thing, that would be an obstacle for voting. So how can you say that "religion" doesn't affect your politics? Ugh.

As a Christian, if I don't vote for what I believe is true, then what use is my belief and what use is my vote?

 

[politicsNproverbs]

I'm pretty sure I've had a pentecostal caller say they aren't a religion as well (and I don't think they are technically born-agains). I kind of wish they'd decide on a new term for people who believe in gods, if 'religious' ain't gonna do it no more. You know, a catch-all term so I don't have to go down the list of faiths, one by one.

They are just being a royal pain, it's socially-engineered OVER-sensitivity-training by their teachers and leaders and pastors heaped onto the flock. The people you talked to are making too much of the word "religious" or "religion." They should be more gracious and simply say, "Yes, of course, I know what you mean, I am a Christian," or a Muslim, or whatever, instead of making a major production out of it.

Because in the "old days," "religion" simply meant you believed in God, Jesus, the Bible, Christianity, or whatever. It's the "trend" of the last 30 years or so to start bashing the word "religion" as if the word itself was demonized, thanks to the likes of Paul Crouch, Sr. (TBN) who is famous for saying, "I hate religion!" and he taught his 2 sons to act the same way. It's petty and shallow, since any reasonable person knows what you would mean if you used that word, ie, that you are not being disrespectful or making distinctions, etc.

It's all ridiculous, imo, the attitude that take over it.

-----------

With all that said, lol, I no longer am part of a "heirarchal religion" (been through 2 of those already, finally learning, lol, ie, from the top down, human leaders down to the peons, with rules and regs that supposedly must be followed in order to "secure one's salvation") but simply am a Christian, period, with Jesus as my direct leader. But if you asked me about "religion," I would know what you meant, of course. No biggie.

OK, off my rant now.

 

[Triton]

My husband is a pastor in a Reformed Presbyterian church. Just for the record, in our denomination, most church parking lots look like a Ron Paul rally due to all of the bumperstickers and magnets.

Don't count out the evangelical vote....

I read somewhere that Judge Roy Moore just endorsed Ron Paul. Is this true? If so, it could have a major impact on the evangelical vote.

Those of us who take time to read, think and actually vote see right through Mike Huckabee. His constant pandering to the Christian vote disgusts me.

We're PCA, and my congregation, sadly and surprisingly, is a vast sea of Huckabee supporters. What we need is a good Adult Sunday school series on Israel (the Elect) versus "israel" (the political nation masquerading as the Elect).

 

[politicsNproverbs]

To go along w/my prior post re: Huckabee and the CFR, I wanted to include this clip from one of my favorite websites, which said entire website would be extremely informative for any Christian-Right'ers who may show up here to learn about Ron Paul...

...the Council for National Policy [is] the policy-making body and funding conduit for the Religious Right. The 500+ member CNP is not a Christian organization but is comprised of Freemasons, CFR members, UN representatives and affiliates, Knights of Malta, Moonies, former-Nazis, neo-Nazis, a former Grand Kilgrapp of the Ku Klux Klan, Mormons, Roman Catholics, Opus Dei members, Scientologists, Church Universal & Triumphant, and even a Rothschild. In short, numerous occult, subversive and criminal organizations are represented in the CNP... and these cults and secret societies collaborate to establish the agenda of the Christian Right. For more information, see: http://watch-unto-prayer.org/cnp.html