Site policies on Trump support

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Because it is a site with a dedicated goal not a general political discussion forum. 75% of the members, the owners, and the namesakes of these forums do not want Trump anywhere near the whitehouse. Trump supporters have been blatantly attempting to recruit and turn this place into Trump central for months.

Really? I've been here that whole time and I've yet to see a donation thread. Or a sign wave thread. Not even a "attend this rally" thread. No corvette for Donald. Not even a hint of a blimp. At best there's been people saying they like "xyz asspect" of Trump.

So while people might say they are voting for the jackass there's not been all that much mancrush at least from what I've seen.
 
And since I completely rebutted that false claim in that thread,
No, you didn't. Not even a little bit. lol

you come here and allude to it in hopes that someone won't go look at how false your claim is, and will therefore be impressed.
No, I don't play that game. Nice try though. I wish people would go look. You made yourself look pretty bad.

Which is the same propaganda tactic that the paid shills use. How much are they paying you?
lol Dude, you have (mod edit)

In if they aren't, how big a fool do you have to be to do for free a favor to a rich man that this same rich man is paying coin of the realm for?
For the 99th time, perhaps you should go check, but Rand is no longer running. Of those who are remaining, I have chosen Trump. I have stated my reasons why. You can find them and read them again if you choose. Otherwise, (mod edit)
 
Gee, I don't know. Does he spam the snot out of it in every thread he can find? Does he start seventeen threads a day about it?

Because if he doesn't, you're tossing red herrings.
Yeaw, 6 weeks ago I made a thread saying I was going to vote for Cruz to stop trump. I specifically said that out of respect I would not promote Cruz or defend him. At this point I have even backed off voting for Cruz. She is trying to use that one post to defend her endless support and defense of Trump supporters use the Paul platform to promote Trump. I didn't even defend myself for the pretty vicious attacks and neg reps I got in for that thread.
 
HEIL HITLER.... err acptulsa.

Godwin be praised!

In short, your comment confirms everything I and others have said, about cultism and people being in denial. Thoughtomator itemized what Trump has done this cycle, that Rand did not do, and your response? "He didn't do any of that." So, it was Rand who drove Jeb and Marco out of the race? Rand who got the elites to waste over 200 million trying to stop him? Rand who challenged PC for the last 9 months straight? Rand who disabled the Donors? Rand who connected with and embraced the anti-establishment voters?

This inability to credit anybody unless their name is Paul, has helped kill the Paul movement. This RPF policy is simply the 9-11 policy 2.0, where a thin-skinned .2% of the members who can't stand a subject of widespread concern to the whole community get to chill the discussion for everyone else.

You people love crediting Trump with the accomplishments of others, don't you?

We, the People burned the Bush. Is Marco out of the race? What is this 900 million figure you seem to have pulled out of your ass, and what people get access to sums like that who don't have sense enough to know that you don't fight a political figure by giving him 900 million dollars' worth of publicity? What makes you think Trump's nine month war on political correctness is somehow more useful to the cause of liberty than Rand Paul.ms multi-year war on unConstitutional acts? What donors are really disabled? Whose father created this movement that Trump was sent in to control?

And what 'discussion'? The 'discussion' is not the issue. The spamming is.

You can say it all you want, doesn't make it true, Ron said those things and got booed, Trump says it and people follow. Just FYI, Trump was against Iraq way back in 2003, just so you know, 2003 was before 2008.

Such a wonderful thing to kick people who might boo you out of the hall you rented.

Interesting that you have no problem with Trump kicking booing people out of the hall he rented, but you do have a problem with the owner of this site kicking spammers out of the property he owns.

All of this is interesting, I have to admit.

I've seen forums die off, but I've never watched one commit suicide.

One does not commit suicide by removing someone's boot from his throat.

If this site is a foregone conclusion, it's because the Trump spammers choked it out. You might as well say, now that the crabgrass choked out your fescue, you had better be nice to the crabgrass or you won't have a lawn at all.

Did someone elect you to this position?

Well. Someone saw something that needed to be done, and got up and did something without campaigning for democratic legitimacy and waiting for people to vote him some power to act.

You never said you were libertarian. In fact, you have often said you aren't. I don't know why you bothered to say it. It does show even without that. It's pretty damned obvious.
 
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No, you didn't. Not even a little bit. lol


No, I don't play that game. Nice try though. I wish people would go look. You made yourself look pretty bad.


lol Dude, you have lost it.


For the 99th time, perhaps you should go check, but Rand is no longer running. Of those who are remaining, I have chosen Trump. I have stated my reasons why. You can find them and read them again if you choose. Otherwise, piss off.
For the 99th time Bryan has made his position on what the Forum will be used for. And it isn't for YOUR GUY.
 
Really? I've been here that whole time and I've yet to see a donation thread. Or a sign wave thread. Not even a "attend this rally" thread. No corvette for Donald. Not even a hint of a blimp. At best there's been people saying they like "xyz asspect" of Trump.

So while people might say they are voting for the jackass there's not been all that much mancrush at least from what I've seen.
You missed a number that got deleted. It is what prompted Bryan to expedite the site evaluation of Trump because it was flat out getting taken over by a small minority.
 
Such drama!

So, when you use an analogy, it's just an analogy. When I expand on the exact same analogy, it's soap opera.

Dude. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

You missed a number that got deleted. It is what prompted Bryan to expedite the site evaluation of Trump because it was flat out getting taken over by a small minority.

Never underestimate the ability of a minority to drown out a majority when the majority have to go to work, and the minority are at work.
 
The ambiguous part of this, of course, is what of discussions about side benefits that have already occurred, or things that amount to a very good outcome in terms of the site's Mission, as a result of the Trump candidacy? It has been pointed out that there are numerous institutional obstacles blocking the success of Paul-like liberty candidates at the national level. Specifically, the donor class backing and controlling puppets like Bush, Rubio, etc. Or the similarly controlled mainstream media, whose job has been to push the donors' puppets, marginalize all the unapproved candidates, and relentlessly push or shame all parties to conform to a 'mainstream' narrative that promotes a bigger state, or a break with cultural tradition.

I have quoted Ron Paul himself, and Chuck Baldwin, and conservatives like Buchanan and Schafly et al, to confirm their agreement that Trump's presence in the race has disrupted this established order. As in already happened, past tense. This is an already achieved result of his campaign, to have disempowered the donors, crushed the prospects for a Bush III or Rubio I neocon regime, and overcome the MSM's control games. How could this crippling of the anti-liberty racket not be compatible with the site's Mission? Can this real, not theoretical achievement be spoken of freely under this policy? The wording of the policy appears to presume all talk of Trump's value for the liberty cause is hypothetical, which is not accurate.
We understand that there can be many side benefits, and there have been some already. That said, it's possible that the potential downsides still outweigh the side benefits.

Our evaluation system is designed to have three final classes:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?491844-Detailed-Candidate-Evaluation-System

Mission supporting candidate - our allies and voices.
Defensive candidates / strategic candidates - not exactly what we want but there are some side benefits
Destructive candidate - any possible benefit is outweighed by the negatives.

That said, we can always leverage events and events likely to occur or otherwise amplify their effect.




This sounds like the personality quirk of Trump being "alpha" is being cited as anti-liberty. Are all manifestations of an "alpha" personality "predatory?" Can a "alpha" personality be accepted as a communication vehicle for the liberty message? Or is the real issue that his "alpha male" nature is too different from Ron or Rand Paul's humbler and gentler public demeanor, that it offends the genteel sensibilities of some supporters here?

I see the same syndrome of hostile reception, whenever a liberty figure in the movement (Adam Kokesh, Alex Jones, etc) with a different personality than either Paul is suggested as a future national candidate. Is the policy about disapproving Trump ultimately because he conflicts with the liberty Mission, or because he conflicts with the personality cult surrounding the Pauls? And do some people's support for the liberty Mission simply begin with the Pauls, and end with the Pauls? If so, that would explain why there has been little or no energy exhibited to support liberty candidates or figures (no matter how consistent in their views) if they are personally too different than Ron or Rand.
Presence nailed this -- the alpha, and other power/influences traits are not bad, it's the manner in which they are applied towards or against our Mission. We put Trump outside of the "Mission supporting candidate" class because of his positions. The combination of his power and positions makes him dangerous (opinion) as a strategic candidate.
 
Leveraging an outcome is something we should always be doing, that is not being put outside of the guidelines.

Honestly, Bryan, I think you were out of the country too long and have not been watching this forum and seeing what was going on. The little lynch mobs running around, and yes, this was while Rand was still in the race. If you would check, the vast majority of comments and threads about Trump, have been made by those who hate him. They scream and yell about Trump being talked about on here, but they fail to acknowledge that the vast majority of them are from their own hands.

I don't support someone coming on here starting threads saying, hey, vote for Trump, or calling him a liberty candidate. But, unless you want to give the upper hand to little hitler and his henchmen, I'm not sure how you're going to pull this off. Seems to me that it's going to be impossible.

So, let me ask again... If someone posts lies about Trump's positions, is it within the new guidelines to rebut them?
 
To me, the Hannity snowballs were the lowest point of the 2008 and 2012 campaigns. There was nothing admirable or useful about it. If it raises a childish smirk in some people, whatever.

To others, the snowballs are a 'respectability Napoleons' moment, that defines who among us are more obsessed with us being "respectable" looking to the regime, than in taking down and replacing that regime. No one else remembers or keeps rehashing the incident, other than those of us who want to prioritize having good PR. Was the 1773 Tea Party respectable?
 
(adam and alex both have fairly strong pro liberty positions)^(alpha male) = a little intense but good for the cause

(trump has fairly strong anti liberty postions)^(alpha male) = intensely bad for the cause
This is a simple way to put it, but couple that alpha part with all of the rest of his power and influence.
 
For the 99th time Bryan has made his position on what the Forum will be used for. And it isn't for YOUR GUY.

I never asked for that, klamath. And Trump isn't "my guy". I will be voting for him, yes. But, only because Rand is no longer in the race.

By the way, the forum will not be used for YOUR GUY (Cruz), either. ;)
 
No, you missed the rest, the other dynamics suggest the main issue causing his rejection around here is his personality. Trump has concretely achieved (past tense) more things for the Mission than Rand has in this cycle, in terms of taking on the anti-liberty institutional obstacles. Can he get some strategic credit for that, at least?
Yes, he can get credit, but that is not the same as promotion.
 
I think the truth is settled, as per the quotes from Ron, Baldwin and many others confirming Trump has been disrupting the system, which helps the mission. Are we only to recognize such victories when "our" guys directly accomplish them? Trump will probably not be the last person to succeed in strategically helping the movement, when our selected "real" liberty candidate does not. Are we going to demonize them all, or create policies against them all?

Please let me know if these questions still stand. Thanks.
 
Yeaw, 6 weeks ago I made a thread saying I was going to vote for Cruz to stop trump. I specifically said that out of respect I would not promote Cruz or defend him. At this point I have even backed off voting for Cruz. She is trying to use that one post to defend her endless support and defense of Trump supporters use the Paul platform to promote Trump. I didn't even defend myself for the pretty vicious attacks and neg reps I got in for that thread.

I haven't been running around supporting Trump on here. Get real. When I have said something, it was to correct a lie, or to answer a question, when asked.
 
Yes, he can get credit.

Obviously. He can even get far, far more credit than he deserves.

But the fact remains that the Establishment Spokesman who is sent out to discuss the taboo topic that can no longer be ignored is not the guy who broke the taboo. The person who maneuvered that topic into the realm of 'can no longer be ignored' deserves that credit.

And for 96% of these topics, that latter guy is the one whose pic adorns the masthead of this site. This site. If we are not to give that man his due, can we at least have the courtesy to change the name and address of this site?

You could have put Donald Duck's name on the ballot. He also is not running.

In fact, he was never running, which is why his name would have to be put on the ballot, instead of merely being marked.

Indeed, I've never seen that Donald do anything but waddle.

Des this conversation really deserve to continue at all? Or is it just a handy excuse for you to continue equating apples to oranges?
 
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