Should the line about student visas be removed from the new immigration ad?

[Corydoras]

We should be encouraging such intelligent and hard working people to come here and help further improve our country, not telling them to stay out.

That's what O-1 visas are about. Not to mention... naturalization.

 

[Jodi's mom]

<snip>

I advocate that we enforce the duration periods of the visas we actually hand out and make sure that people who should leave the country do so. What I do not advocate is collective punishment. We shouldn't punish every student from a certain country that wants to come here and study just because a few radicals who happen to be from such a country decided to commit terrorist acts.

How are we supposed to spread our message of peace and freedom through example if we do not let those who would be willing to listen the right to come here? This would effectively be silencing the more moderate voices from certain countries and giving the more radical voices the perfect weapon, an uneducated populace who is highly susceptible to propaganda.

I agree with you except for the wisdom of Solomon which follows:

Ecclesiates 3:8 (read the whole chapter wherein there is much wisdom)

8 A time to love, and a time to hate; a time of war, and a time of peace.

In other words, apc, there is a time and place for everything under the sun. There will be a time again for students to come from all over the world to learn our ways, but now is not the time. Jeopardizing the safety of the country isn't worth being humanitarian.

That's like allowing a man from a family of known women abusers date your daughter hoping he might adopt the manners of the men in your family. You don't really know if he is or isn't a woman abuser, but you'll risk your daughter's safety to prove you're not prejudiced against his family?

 

[Jodi's mom]

No controversial statements will get him in the news, and as we know, Dr. Paul always backs up his positions with logic they cannot deny.

I agree. We can trust his experience AND wisdom.

 

[apc3161]

Without the necessary documentation at hand to be absolutely certain, I think we can assume Dr. Paul's policy means as long as we are in a state of war with (these) terrorists nations.

Let me offer you an analogy. Suppose tainted beef is imported to our country but we don't know from which country. Further suppose that 1000s of Americans a day are dying from it. Do we continue to allow our grocers to sell beef? How long do we allow the imports not knowing its origins? How would you handle this? How do you put beef back on the meat counters without being selective? or discriminatory? Further, when you discover the source, do you consider yourself discriminating or racist against the country whose beef was tainted because you refuse to let their products into the country, and because you are now allowing other countries to import their products?

With all due respect, that is a bad analogy in my opinion. A better analogy would be that 1 out of 1,000 steaks that come from Argentina have mad cow disease, should we stop importing all steaks from Argentina? No, we should just quarantine or recall batches which we know are infected

If thousands of americans were dying every single day because of immigrants, well then yes maybe I would reconsider my position, but that just isn't the case.

 

[Paul10]

........

 

[Liberty Star]

Since Ron Paul has labeled only these 5 nations as "terrorist nations", it can't effect too many people:

http://www.state.gov/s/ct/c14151.htm


No nation should be labeled as evil ideally, but it's less than half a dozen nations and we still need military bases at least in some countries to defend our freedoms. Is that still a big deal?

 

[srmpass98]

Yes. It should be removed or retracted for obvious reasons.

 

[Revolution9]

Hi Randy,

If we deny student visas wholesale for political reasons (eg "terrorist nation") we are making a choice that allows unscrupulous

foreign political leaders to hold hostage educational choices of millions of innocent young men and women around the world

and further their agenda by preventing any possibility of these young people of gaining a different point of view.

Allowing these people to have a chance to come in and educating these people (at their expense of course)

and exposing them to American values (liberty, peace, tolerance, prosperity, inalienable rights) is the best way to make changes in their country.

We know that sanctions, bombing and similar isolationary tactics (ie. wholesale visa denials) hurt innocent civilians the most.

Have we learned nothing at all from our mistakes? I believe that we cannot prevail against terrorism this way.

Determined terrorists will always find a way in. Violent criminals will always find a way in Randy.

Please consider this.

Kind Regards,

T.E.D

PS. I just watched a very good movie "This Is England", which showed a very ugly side of xenophobia.

Hey ED.. Piss pfff clown. That last remark about xenophobia was all the grounds I needed to dismiss your entire argument out of hand as an emotional knee jerk. yer the one setting offf xenopphopbia bombs in lieu of common sense..Not me.

Best regards
Randy

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

How about this: The campaign takes out the 2 seconds that has the line "terrorist nations" in it to appease the PC whiners on youtube. Then they run the ad in it's entirety in Iowa.

There, problem solved. Can we talk about important things now, like getting third place or better in Iowa?

I would not mind but different versions could make Paul look like a flip-flopper or a Slick Willie.

The critics are overlooking how the ad supports his ANTI-war position and solves the "cut and run" accusations.

See http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-to-stop-terrorists-from-following.html

 

[AggieforPaul]

There's no going back now. I don't agree with Dr. Paul on this issue, but this has always been his position. He even went so far as to introduce a bill in during the Iranian hostage crisis that would withhold federal funding from any university that gave student visas to Iranians.

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

My point in favor of the ad is...When I was first looking at Ron Paul I did not like the idea of bringing our troops home...how would we be kept safe with all the troops here in the US? The ad comforted me because I saw Ron Paul had a plan to make sure we were not attacked, it clicked with me, keep in mind I am an "elder voting republican" although not in IA. As I think about it whose country do you think this is? Why do you believe we have to be so humanitarian without regard to our safety as a nation?

Please listen to Jodi. The ad demolishes the "cut and run" and "Paul will leave us defenseless" accusations.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-to-stop-terrorists-from-following.html

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

With all due respect, that is a bad analogy in my opinion. A better analogy would be that 1 out of 1,000 steaks that come from Argentina have mad cow disease, should we stop importing all steaks from Argentina? No, we should just quarantine or recall batches which we know are infected

If thousands of americans were dying every single day because of immigrants, well then yes maybe I would reconsider my position, but that just isn't the case.

I agree that individual assessments are preferable but information from terrorist states can be unreliable so (hypothetically) a blanket ban on 6 countries and individual assessments for the remaining (almost) 200 countries seems like an imperfect but reasonable way to maximize liberty.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-to-stop-terrorists-from-following.html

 

[MayTheRonBeWithYou]

Can someone explain this to me? I saw that in the ad and was scratching my head. Who exactly are these "terrorist nations"?

 

[LukeNM]

No - Who Cares, Get Over It And Let's Move On!

 

[hawks4ronpaul]

I see where you are coming from, and this is definitely OUR country, but blocking student visas entirely to people from certain countries in my opinion will not increase our safety. Again, it will allow the radicals in other countries the ability to spread propaganda to an uneducated populace. Education is a defense against ignorance. If we allow the radicals in other countries the ability to take advantage of an uneducated, ignorant populace, we are not increasing our safety. The radicals will be able to spread their lies to those who don't know the truth, and their recruitment numbers will go up, and we will have more radicals to deal with.

Again, I am 100% for enforcing visas though. If they over-stay the Visa period, find them, and send them home. If we would have done this, 9-11 would never have happened because all of the hijackers had expired visas.

But if we don't allow the best and brightest from other nations to come here, educate themselves and work, our country will be in a lot of trouble. Our businesses and universities will take big hits. We should be encouraging such intelligent and hard working people to come here and help further improve our country, not telling them to stay out.

They still can learn democracy in Canada.

Visiting the West does not always help. Ho Chi Minh probably learned communism in France. Ho visited the United States.

I would have worded the ad differently but I do not see a big problem with the current ad.

http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/2007/12/how-to-stop-terrorists-from-following.html

 

[american empire]

edited

 

[american empire]

just clarify from the HQ before you make any decisions.....

 

[Revolution9]

Can someone explain this to me? I saw that in the ad and was scratching my head. Who exactly are these "terrorist nations"?

For current official policy on this do not look to the sympathizers. Instead try going to the US State Dept which makes these designations. It is ot Ro Paul taht makes these designations,.

Randy

 

[austin356]

I am a doctor living in NH who is a die hard supporter of the Dr Paul. In fact my family is sick of me talking about him so much that they remind me every time I open my mouth "yes we will vote for your guy but please do shut up". They have never voted before.

I am came to the US on a student visa and was naturalized the LEGAL way. I am from a very sensitive part of the world um lets say its up there in the list of places the ad talks about.

The ad made me question myself. Am I not contributing to society. I feel part of America and its culture. I treat my patients as I would back in the country that I hail from. It makes me question if the brilliant minds from my country of origin will ever be allowed to come to America and contribute to research and education here.

At first I thought this was blatant pandering. But then I thought if the last part was to be removed after our intervention then it would be pandering too.

I have been accepted into the US society in a way that I would never expect possible anywhere else. Maybe its b/c I am a doc so many cant question my contribution. But at times I do feel the wrath of people who are anti immigration(very few). My answer to them is one that makes them question themselves. Where were their ancestors originally from? Germany, Russia, Ireland , Scotland, England? Where did Timothy Mcveigh's ancestors originate from. There are lunatic people in every country. But to collectively insinuate the whole population for an act that doesn't represent them isn't a good idea. Should other countries put an embargo on travelers from US b/c they detest Bush's policies.

I know where the doctor stands and his policies. So for me this ad has shocked me but doesnt make me worry too much. I might have problem answering certain questions. But the important thing for everyone who has voted "yes" for this poll is that this is a minor part of the Dr that we do not agree on. We shouldn't make a great big deal out of it. What we do need to do is push forward the positive message. If this will bring him more votes I am very happy with
the ad. As long as it gets the doctor to the office I am for it. We have more important issues to solve like financial, healthcare and foreign policy. Lets not make this a BIG issue. Trust me if I am still Voting for Dr Paul after this ad I doubt anyone else will stop supporting him NOW. Lets not give the Old Media negative things to talk about and lets focus on NH and Iowa.

If there are any docs on this forum, my advice :if you get a chance talk to your patients about issues in general then ask them if they know of Dr Paul. They will be listening intently. Yes it is ethical b/c you are trying to cure their apathy. Also other docs are very receptive to the message and so are the nurses. Lets face it we are sick of the insurance companies as much as the patients are. And yes we want to restore the doctor patient relationship.

Thanks for listening...
doctors for Paul.

thanks. good input.

 

[Liberty Star]

So only 40% want "terrorist nations" phrase changed, 60% are ok with it.

This should get us a fraction of Tancredo/neocon supporters even if we lose some Indie and anti war support. Perhaps worth the trade off.