Should intelligent psychopaths who lack empathy, own guns ?

[pubjohn47]

Breivik, The mass murderer of children appears to be an intelligent, well-educated individual and a competent businessman, who owned a successful farm.

Nothing in either his life story or even in this unprecedented atrocity smacks of wild insanity.


The Norwegian mass murderer of children ,Breivik, was able to perpetrate this monstrous deed is partly a reflection of the extremely liberal gun laws that operate in Scandinavia.


It was this freedom that gave Breivik easy access to high-calibre weaponry.

Moreover, his work as a farmer meant that he could acquire fertiliser for his bomb-making without raising any suspicions.

Ref : http://www.perthnow.com.au/a-glimps...eart-of-darkness/story-fn6mhct1-1226101378747


Comment:

Should everybody who wants to own a gun or purchase large quantities of fertilizer be subject to a brain scan that detects psychopathic, unempathetic behavior ?


Ref : http://www.mendeley.com/research/br...dy-semantic-affective-processing-psychopaths/

 

[amy31416]

It's a "pre-crime" mentality, so no (to your proposition to scan people).

But, very few people in our government would be allowed to own guns in that scenario, so hmmm....but they'd just hire someone to shoot other people for them.

 

[acptulsa]

Should psychopaths of any stripe own guns? I said no.

Should any attempt be made to prevent them from owning guns? Should this be based on some kind of brain scan? What kind of brain scan? What test, electronic or by way of some kind of paper test or interview, will detect a psychopath? There is no such thing. mendeley is dreaming, imo.

If you try to prevent a psychopath from owning a gun, as history has proven many countless times, you will merely ensure that no one except psychopaths own guns. Thus the massive support for the Second Amendment on this forum.

This whole thing reeks of, yeah, gun control has been an utter failure to date, but now we have the technology! We can rebuild it and make it work! Thread fail.

Intelligent psychopaths should be able to get guns with such ease that they will know deep in their hearts that they aren't the only ones out there with guns. This will change the intelligent psychopath's mind like nothing else.

 

[Revolution9]

Hey. An intelligent psychopath just may shoot another psychopath who stole his shit or pointed a gun at them with intent to kill or maim. Bonus time! If he just starts shooting shoot his ass ASAP. Too bad some of the students weren't packing in Norway.

rev9

 

[Occam's Banana]

Should psychopaths of any stripe own guns? I said no.

Should any attempt be made to prevent them from owning guns? Should this be based on some kind of brain scan? What kind of brain scan? What test, electronic or by way of some kind of paper test or interview, will detect a psychopath? There is no such thing. mendeley is dreaming, imo.

If you try to prevent a psychopath from owning a gun, as history has proven many countless times, you will merely ensure that no one except psychopaths own guns. Thus the massive support for the Second Amendment on this forum.

This whole thing reeks of, yeah, gun control has been an utter failure to date, but now we have the technology! We can rebuild it and make it work! Thread fail.

Intelligent psychopaths should be able to get guns with such ease that they will know deep in their hearts that they aren't the only ones out there with guns. This will change the intelligent psychopath's mind like nothing else.

What acptulsa said. I interpreted the question as asking (in essence) whether "intelligent psychopaths who lack empathy" should be *permitted* to own guns. In this context, I answered "yes," because the proposition that they should not be permitted to do so is fraught with peril - as acptulsa points out so well.

There are also several other problems with the question as stated.

For one thing, why "intelligent" psychopaths?
Are stupid psychopaths of no concern?
For another thing, why psychopaths who "lack empathy?"
Isn't lack of empathy a defining characterisitic of psychopaths?

The question ought simply to be "Should psychopaths [be permitted to] own guns?"

Even this cleaned-up version is very problematic. What is a psychopath, anyway? Most psychopaths are not violent - they tend overwhelmingly to be "users & manipulators," not killers. And can we really trust the APA - or "brain scanners" (or the people operating them) - to reliably & objectively identify violent psychopaths?

Thomas Szasz has spent his career pointing out the great dangers of "medicalizing" behavior for purposes of social control. His objections apply with full force in this case, as well.

 

[pubjohn47]

Too bad some of the students weren't packing in Norway.

rev9

if the shooter knew that all students had guns, what was to stop him from buying a grenade launcher or have full body armor to withstand bullets etc ?

If everybody owned a gun, how easy is it for a criminal to steal readily available guns and use them against the owner or somebody else ?

How long does it take to maintain a gun in good condition, learn to shoot it accurately, keep it safe from little kids, have it ready at all times ?


The best way to resolve this problem is to have a study of countries with very strict gun control laws and compare those countries with countries with very liberal gun control laws

but the problem is the US government does not have the money to conduct such studies since trillions of dollars are wasted on the warfare corporations and institutions while cancer research funding is being cut : http://www.aacr.org/home/public--me...cymakers/federal-cancer-research-funding.aspx

even when over a million Americans die every two years from cancer alone

 

[Revolution9]

if the shooter knew that all students had guns, what was to stop him from buying a grenade launcher or have full body armor to withstand bullets etc ?

If everybody owned a gun, how easy is it for a criminal to steal readily available guns and use them against the owner or somebody else ?

How long does it take to maintain a gun in good condition, learn to shoot it accurately, keep it safe from little kids, have it ready at all times ?


The best way to resolve this problem is to have a study of countries with very strict gun control laws and compare those countries with countries with very liberal gun control laws

but the problem is the US government does not have the money to conduct such studies since trillions of dollars are wasted on the warfare corporations and institutions while cancer research funding is being cut : http://www.aacr.org/home/public--me...cymakers/federal-cancer-research-funding.aspx

even when over a million Americans die every two years from cancer alone

Yer totally out of left field. And those studies have been done. Gun control leads to crime stats rising and countries instituting gun control often become oppressive regimes the citizens wished they had held onto their guns under.

Rev9

 

[osan]

Nothing in either his life story or even in this unprecedented atrocity smacks of wild insanity...


...the extremely liberal gun laws that operate in Scandinavia.


It was this freedom that gave Breivik easy access to high-calibre weaponry.

Moreover, his work as a farmer meant that he could acquire fertiliser for his bomb-making without raising any suspicions.

And your access to an automobile, hammer, chainsaw, dinner fork, eggs, bottles, sticks and stones... might allow you to bring harm to others. You could potentially mow down a whole lot of people with a '67 Buick.

Should everybody who wants to own a gun or purchase large quantities of fertilizer be subject to a brain scan that detects psychopathic, unempathetic behavior ?

No. Not ever.

DUH.

 

[acptulsa]

'67 Buicks don't kill people, people kill people.

That said, I might be willing to wager that Buicks have killed more people than guns have...

 

[osan]

if the shooter knew that all students had guns, what was to stop him from buying a grenade launcher or have full body armor to withstand bullets etc ?

Do you know anything legitimate about weapons and the tactics of use? You sound like the textbook ignoramus who spouts off on a topic of which he knows nothing.

If everybody owned a gun, how easy is it for a criminal to steal readily available guns and use them against the owner or somebody else ?

We have going ca. 400 million firearms in the USA and this has yet to become a problem.

How long does it take to maintain a gun in good condition, learn to shoot it accurately, keep it safe from little kids, have it ready at all times ?

What is the relevancy of all this?

The best way to resolve this problem is to have a study of countries with very strict gun control laws and compare those countries with countries with very liberal gun control laws

Your gross ignorance is showing. This has been studied every which way you can imagine. The conclusions are clear: more guns == less crime in any given context.

but the problem is the US government does not have the money to conduct such studies since trillions of dollars are wasted on the warfare corporations and institutions while cancer research funding is being cut : http://www.aacr.org/home/public--me...cymakers/federal-cancer-research-funding.aspx

even when over a million Americans die every two years from cancer alone

Smells like a troll. A statist troll at that.

You have a nice day.

 

[osan]

'67 Buicks don't kill people, people kill people.

That said, I might be willing to wager that Buicks have killed more people than guns have...

Wait a minute.... Buicks are American cars of NORWEGIAN ancestry (Buick is a Norwegian name).

Norwegian cars... Norwegian mass murderer... uh oh...

Maybe we should ban Norwegians!

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Precrime=Fail

 

[Working Poor]

Psychopaths ought not be able to command armies but they still do.

 

[outspoken]

Many of America's greatest war heroes were in reality psychopaths... Nations in times of war rely heavily on having the 2% or so of people that have no struggle internally with their conscience because they have none. This instance is just a case of someone pulling the trigger with a high powered gun without a flag on their arm and wearing cammoflauge. I suggest reading On Killing for greater understanding of how nations overcome man's predisposition against killing fellow human beings.

 

[pcosmar]

Should intelligent psychopaths who lack empathy, own guns ?

Flawed reasoning. (or lacking any reasoning)
First, an Intelligent Psychopath could easily disguise himself as "normal", so as to hide his Psychosis.
The only countermeasure is to insure that the rest of the population is armed to respond to any threat.
Everyone should be armed.
Secondly, What makes you think he is a psychopath, and not a programed killer. He could (very possibly) been manipulated by others to commit this crime. And that is something that has been proven to be possible with almost anyone, through several techniques.

Once again,the only effective counter is for everyone to be armed.
Not to prevent madmen, but to respond effectively to them.

 

[pubjohn47]

And your access to an automobile, hammer, chainsaw, dinner fork, eggs, bottles, sticks and stones... might allow you to bring harm to others. You could potentially mow down a whole lot of people with a '67 Buick.



No. Not ever.

DUH.

You have to compare how many people have been gunned down with how many people have been murdered by other methods.

Why is the gun the preferred method of killing ?

 

[pubjohn47]

Everyone should be armed.
.

If everyone is armed, what is to stop criminals from being even more armed by buying heavy body armor, grenade launchers, very heavy machine guns and sniper rifles that can shoot from half mile away ?

 

[pubjohn47]

And those studies have been done.
Rev9

Can you refer me to the studies that have been done ?

 

[JackieDan]

In my opinion, people should be well aware of guns before buying them. This would require months of training and understanding before anyone can touch a gun. Certificates are also important. Everyone should have a right to own a gun, but in my opinion there should be an educational factor factored in before someone can make an easy purchase. Certificates should be renewed and states, not federals, should know who buys that gun and why there's a need for it.

I used to be strictly against the second amendment but I have reconsidered it for a while now.. If you find my post irrelevant, please tell me why and why I am wrong. I would appreciate not to alienate me on this, as I have been a victim of it before in regard to this issue.

 

[brushfire]

"Intelligent psychopath who lacks empathy"? If you're talking about most government officials, I'll say no.

If you're talking about average citizens, what constitutes "psychopath"? This question is very concerning. I recently heard a "this American life" where they went over the tests used to determine who is a "psychopath". In one of their sound bites they used a man's stance on judicious use of a lethal weapon as an implied condition for somone with psychopathic tendencies.

If the later is your question, I dont like the wording of this poll at all. Just remember, we have laws on the books that forgo the 4th amendment in the name of "Fighting terrorism". We also have an administration who defines "Terrorists" as people who are religious, anti-abortion, or pro 2nd amendment. We also have a president that says the US government can assassinate US citizens, and does so openly!

Be VERY careful of how much license you give this government over your liberties! The government is here to protect our liberties, not regulate and take them away!