Should intelligent psychopaths who lack empathy, own guns ?

[Krugerrand]

Most of them won't "adopt a different manner of killing" - they'll just acquire their guns illegally.
Hell, the BATF might even take up some of the slack by trying to sell guns to them.
They've done it for violent drug dealers, so why not for psychopaths?

No, I'm pretty sure a murderer would never break the law and own a gun illegally. Oh wait, never mind.

 

[Seraphim]

Innocent until proven guilty.

Everybody should be able to own a gun. Lose the priviledge if you commit aggressive acts.

 

[The Bavarian]

Most of them won't "adopt a different manner of killing" - they'll just acquire their guns illegally.

Of course, I was merely trying to make the point that someone, specifically someone that fell off the edge of sanity, can easily do a lot of harm whether he has guns or not.

 

[aravoth]

I see no reason why a psychopath should not be able to own a firearm. First off, most psycho's function just fine. Secondly, George Bush and Barack Obama are nuttier than squirrel shit, yet you're ok with them having the ability to nuke the entire planet twice over, and have command of the most powerful military on the planet?

I'll take my chances....

 

[AFPVet]

Innocent until proven guilty.

Everybody should be able to own a gun. Lose the privilege if you commit aggressive acts.

There ya go. Everyone is a sovereign, free person until they try to do someone harm... and in this unfortunate event, citizens should be able to make an arrest and officers take that person into custody with the signatures of the persons who arrested the individual. I believe that citizens arrest powers should extend beyond felony and breech of peace... but unto all enforcement of state statutes. By the way, it doesn't take much to write out an on the spot probable cause affidavit and report signed by the responding officer and citizen(s) reporting the violation.

Everyone is innocent until proven guilty in the court of law. We don't beat mentally ill, homeless people, sleeping veterans, or kill family pets, or others. Everyone get's their day in court... a FAIR court.

 

[osan]

Should everybody who wants to own a gun or purchase large quantities of fertilizer be subject to a brain scan that detects psychopathic, unempathetic behavior ?

One more thing I neglected to point out.

The question presupposes that empathy is somehow a required characteristic in order that one possess his rights. Does it get more preposterous than this? The acceptance of such a presupposition requires a significant depth of stupidity, willful or otherwise.

But let me not run ahead of myself in judging. What is the basis for accepting such a presupposition? How is it that one who lacks "empathy" is disqualified from his natural rights? Please explain. You might find it useful by providing a very precise and complete definition of "empathy" as it specifically applies here. What is empathy? Why is it required?

If you cannot explain this, then you have no argument whatsoever beyond your opinion.

 

[DamianTV]

Innocent until proven guilty.

Everybody should be able to own a gun. Lose the priviledge if you commit aggressive acts.

^This^

And I think the Psychological Term for the Mental Illness that describes someone without Empathy is Sociopath, not Psychopath.

 

[steve005]

I believe that citizens arrest powers should extend beyond felony and breech of peace... but unto all enforcement of state statutes

That's nuts. There are thousands and thousands of statutes.
I think what you meant to say was "enforcement of common law", at least I hope that's what you meant. Would you arrest me for littering in your yard or speeding past?

What I mean by common law; hurting someone

 

[Seraphim]

This is correct. Psychopaths lack empathy all together, but what makes them psychopaths is the desire to physically hurt others and then to actually do it (on a internal, innate level...not situational/emotional).

Sociopaths lack empathy and manipulate people for their own gain (while not feeling guilty).

They share many common traits, but the psychopath (in relation to the socio) takes their destruction to a much further level.

Put simply; Sociopaths will "walk over" someone for money/power/recognition without guilt. Psychopaths will torture someone (physically or otherwise) for the pure bloodlust and thrill of power.

^This^

And I think the Psychological Term for the Mental Illness that describes someone without Empathy is Sociopath, not Psychopath.

 

[AFPVet]

Sociopath and psychopathic definitions are more or less synonymous; however, sociopaths may feel empathy—while psychopaths will not. Some psychologists and sociologists differentiate between sociopaths from psychopaths in that sociopaths may attach themselves to a group (hence the 'socio' part); while psychopaths do not attach themselves to anyone.

From Helping Psychology.com
—Britney

The study of criminal behavior involves learning the various mental disorders that can contribute to abnormal behavior. Sociopathy and psychopathy are terms used in psychology and criminology to refer to subsets of people with antisocial personality traits. Neither is an official diagnostic term; in the fourth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-IV) each disorder is listed under the heading of Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD). Many psychiatrists use the terms interchangeably. There is, however, controversy over whether sociopaths and psychopaths share the same qualities.

Sociopathy and psychopathy share many traits, which is the main source of confusion for differentiating them in psychology. Traits that sociopaths and psychopaths share include:

a disregard for the rights of others
a failure to feel remorse or guilt
a disregard for laws and social mores
a tendency to display violent behavior and emotional outbursts

Though not all psychology professionals agree on what exactly differentiates sociopaths from psychopaths, among those who believe each are separate disorders there is a list of definite differences. Sociopaths tend to be nervous and easily agitated. They are likely to be uneducated and live on the fringes of society, unable to hold down a steady job or stay in one place. Some sociopaths form attachments to an individual or group, though they have no regard for society in general. In the eyes of others, sociopaths appear clearly disturbed. Any crimes committed by a sociopath tend to be disorganized and spontaneous.

Psychopaths, on the other hand, often have charming personalities. They are manipulative and easily gain people’s trust. They have learned to mimic emotion and so appear “normal” to other people. Psychopaths are often educated and hold steady jobs. Some are so good at manipulation and mimicry that they can have families and other long-term relationships without those around them ever suspecting their true nature.

Psychopaths, when committing crimes, carefully plan out every detail and often have contingency plans in place. Because of this marked difference between the method of crimes committed by sociopaths and psychopaths, the distinction between these disorders is perhaps even more important to criminology than it is to psychology.

Another belief among some professionals is that the etiology of the disorders is different. According to David Lykken, a behavioral geneticist known for his studies on twins, psychopathy stems from a physiological defect in the brain that results in the underdevelopment of the part of the brain responsible for impulse control and emotions. Sociopathy is more the product of childhood traumas and abuse. According to this model, some professionals believe that sociopaths are capable of empathy, but only in specific contexts.

For example, sociopaths may attach their loyalty to a person or group and will feel empathy for or not hurt those people to which they are attached. Psychopaths, however, have an inability to feel empathy and are just as likely to hurt their family and friends as they are strangers. Other psychologists make these same distinctions, but define them as primary psychopathy and secondary psychopathy.

Are you interested in learning more about the topics in criminal psychology? Argosy University’s forensic degree program includes the study of criminal behavior. Click here for more information and to get in touch with a program specialist.

 

[pcosmar]

a disregard for the rights of others
a failure to feel remorse or guilt
a disregard for laws and social mores
a tendency to display violent behavior and emotional outbursts

Seems like the job requirements for a government enforcer.

 

[awake]

If more people owned, understood the importance of owning a firearm, and were trained properly in the use including proper circumstances in its use, then there would be a lot less psychopaths with guns. We teach CPR to the general public as means to prevent deaths from cardiac arrest, why can't we understand that teaching people about gun ownership and proper usage to protect property is a protection for the general public overall.

The state must disarm the public, and make it ever more difficult to own a gun, for the public might actually stand up to the organized looters at some point. There has never been, nor ever will be a mass shooting at any gun show. It is literally one of the safest places to be.

More guns, less crime ; but what that really means is less police and less government. And the monopolists can't have that. So your tax dollars go toward the indoctrination of the people to disarm themselves. This makes for more efficient looting by common criminals and the state.

 

[AFPVet]

Seems like the job requirements for a government enforcer.

Exactly.

 

[osan]

That's nuts.

World's a nutty place.

I think what you meant to say was "enforcement of common law",

Better yet, enforcement of the principles of liberty to which all are bound.

 

[cheapseats]

Should intelligent psychopaths who lack empathy, own guns? = BAIT.

Would you rather be right, AND SCARE THE BEJEEZUS OUTTA SOFT SUBURBANITES . . . or sit out a CIRCLE-JERK argument you've had DOZENS of times before?

The arguments "naturally" occurring in EXTREME HYPOTHETICALS are not NOT NOT likely to induce Soccer Moms and Muffin Top Dads to cozy up to Libertarians, I mean, LIBERTARIAN-LEANING REPUBLICANS.

 

[pcosmar]

Should intelligent psychopaths who lack empathy, own guns? = BAIT.

Would you rather be right, AND SCARE THE BEJEEZUS OUTTA SOFT SUBURBANITES . . . or sit out a CIRCLE-JERK argument you've had DOZENS of times before?

The arguments "naturally" occurring in EXTREME HYPOTHETICALS are not NOT NOT likely to induce Soccer Moms and Muffin Top Dads to cozy up to Libertarians, I mean, LIBERTARIAN-LEANING REPUBLICANS.

Pretty much.
It was a troll thread in response to the Norway shooting.

It should more accurately been.

Should Mental Testing be done for rights to be exercised?

Or perhaps,
Should all Americans undergo Mental Testing?

To speak
to vote
To sit on a Jury
To own tools

etc.etc.etc.

 

[cheapseats]

Pretty much.
It was a troll thread in response to the Norway shooting.

It should more accurately been.

Should Mental Testing be done for rights to be exercised?


Or perhaps,
Should all Americans undergo Mental Testing?

To speak
to vote
To sit on a Jury
To own tools

etc.etc.etc.

Tom Cruise, A FEW GOOD MEN: "My client's a moron. That's not against the law."

 

[KingRobbStark]

I have a feeling pubjohn47 is Bachmann trolling this thread in order to steal more of our talking points.

Or this could be a clueless liberal.

 

[osan]

...clueless liberal.

Department of Redundancy Department.

 

[Mini-Me]

Breivik, The mass murderer of children appears to be an intelligent, well-educated individual and a competent businessman, who owned a successful farm.

Nothing in either his life story or even in this unprecedented atrocity smacks of wild insanity.


The Norwegian mass murderer of children ,Breivik, was able to perpetrate this monstrous deed is partly a reflection of the extremely liberal gun laws that operate in Scandinavia.


It was this freedom that gave Breivik easy access to high-calibre weaponry.

Moreover, his work as a farmer meant that he could acquire fertiliser for his bomb-making without raising any suspicions.

Ref : http://www.perthnow.com.au/a-glimps...eart-of-darkness/story-fn6mhct1-1226101378747


Comment:

Should everybody who wants to own a gun or purchase large quantities of fertilizer be subject to a brain scan that detects psychopathic, unempathetic behavior ?


Ref : http://www.mendeley.com/research/br...dy-semantic-affective-processing-psychopaths/

First, your question presupposes centralized and controlled distribution channels for firearms. This element of control is prohibitively dangerous in and of itself, because the whole point of the Second Amendment is to ensure the people - not the government - are ultimately in control of their destiny.

Second, your question presupposes an honestly administered test. However, psychopaths are extremely overrepresented in positions of power (they are attracted to them more than anyone else, and they have the charm and ruthlessness to excel and be promoted)...so do you really think any mandated psychological test or brain scan would be an honest one (and continue to be indefinitely)? Think about it. As pcosmar said,

Seems like the job requirements for a government enforcer.

Third, any [non-governmental] psychopath who intends on using a weapon for nefarious purposes already has no respect for the law, by definition...and so unlike law-abiding citizens, they'll still get their weapons...just from the black market. In this sense, the poll is misleading: I may not WANT psychopaths to own guns, but there is NO way to prevent them from doing so en masse (you can, however, prevent ordinary people from having the means to withstand aggression...that's always an option ). The governmental psychopaths will always have access, and the non-governmental psychopaths will find ways (unlike most others).

I constantly advocate awareness of psychopaths, sociopathic narcissists, etc., and I'm always telling people to learn the signs and familiarize themselves with Hare's PCL-R. Educating people about the reality of truly conscienceless people is one of the most important things we can do...but mark my words: The government - any and all government - is and always will be ground zero for psychopathy, because of what government is (a monopoly on the legal use of force) and represents (control and power over other people). The only feasible way to limit the impact of psychopaths is to limit and undermine the mechanism of centralized control. Any attempt by the state/government/law/etc. to label people and use that to deprive them of their rights is going to end badly...and anyone in a position of power who comes up with plans to do so is quite likely to be a psychopath in the first place.