Should I vote for Ron Paul or Obama in PA?

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I woke up this morning thinking about this. I've made up my mind to stick with my plan of voting for Ron Paul. Please understand I only ever questioned it because the republican election has been decided while the democrats are still sorting it out.

I figure yes - Obama MAY very well do a better job than Clinton at getting out of Iraq. Yes Clinton is more likely to bomb Iran than Obama.

But Obama seems quite determined to send more troops to Afghanistan and to bomb Pakistan. What is the point in voting for somebody that will bomb those countires and not the others? Just because my girlfriend is from Iran? Other people's families live in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

No thanks. I'm going to vote for the peace candidate and feel good about my vote. If Clinton wins PA by one vote and becomes president I won't blame myself. I will blame that millions that actually did cast a vote for her.

Everybody should be joining us and voting Ron Paul. I'm sick of having to join the uninformed people and vote for the lesser of evils just because that's what the masses force us to do every single time.

Anyway thanks so much for all of the feedback. Some of you think this is a joke but I take voting and presidential elections very seriously. I knew I could come here and be given firm reasons to still vote Ron Paul at this late stage and many of you delivered. So seriously - a big thank you!

Thanks for sincerely asking the question. It's one that will come up again, and I'll be able to point them to this thread.

That being said, whoever wins in November, and with Bush in office now--we need to make absolutely sure that we block every attempt by the powers that be from going into Iran. That means electing the right public officials and being diligent and informed about what laws they're trying to get passed.

Some people may be upset by this, but that may mean drilling in ANWAR on a temporary basis. If we have to move some polar bears, so be it. Does that really compare to people getting killed over oil?

Alternative energy is more important than ever. Consider how you can reduce your dependency on foreign oil.
 
It depends whether or not you want to adhere to your principles or not. If you want to choose the lesser of two evils, I ain't gonna blame you. A vote for Paul at this point is a waste as far as determining who is going to win the election. If you think Obama is slightly better than Hillary and want to cast your vote against her, go ahead. I voted back in January for Ron Paul and if I was voting now, I think I'd still vote for Paul.
 
It depends whether or not you want to adhere to your principles or not. If you want to choose the lesser of two evils, I ain't gonna blame you. A vote for Paul at this point is a waste as far as determining who is going to win the election. If you think Obama is slightly better than Hillary and want to cast your vote against her, go ahead. I voted back in January for Ron Paul and if I was voting now, I think I'd still vote for Paul.

Really Abe? You don't think he should just stay home and do something more useful?
 
Really Abe? You don't think he should just stay home and do something more useful?

If that's what he chooses to do, then yes. I'm not going to sit here and tell the man how to live his life. He has to cast his own vote how he sees fit. If he chooses not to vote at all, life will go on.
 
If you are voting for Obama, you have no idea of the message Ron Paul is trying to spread. Obama is complete opposite of RP's message.
 
I will not vote for McCain, Hillary or Obama. I am a Ron Paul Republican. The National GOP did not want to acknowledge Ron Paul during the primaries therefore, I will not acknowledge them or their hand picked nominee. I hope the Republican Party implodes from a lack of support. I will vote my conscience and cast a protest vote and/or not vote at all (which will be the same as a protest vote).
 
I am looking for advice on what I should do in the next few weeks. You can change your party affiliation in Pennsylvania still and our primary is in late April.

Everybody is saying that PA will be THE state choosing between Obama and Clinton. That's a huge responsibility. I don't trust Obama but he does SAY he will end the war. I want the war to end more than anything else - even more than all of the other things that Ron Paul stands for.

I know some here still think Ron Paul can become president - and I don't want to focus on that in this thread. Let's agree to disagree. I don't think the movement is over but I think the presidential campaign is.

With that said - I would throw up if Clinton becomes president. I know she is pure evil. Obama might be pure evil too. For example I know he:

- voted to reauthorize the patriot act

- won't take nuking Iran off the table

- said stuff about keeping the troops in Iraq for a few more years

- is a member of CFR

- is a tool of one of the major parties

(am I answering my own question here?)


but there is a part of me that wonders - even though he will tax and spend us into the ground (just like McCain and Clinton I might add) he has good intentions. Clearly he is the least of the three evils. And I even get the feeling Ron Paul likes him (though he rightly seems to believe he is misguided)

Voting for Ron Paul in PA would only help get him delegates at the convention. It won't make him president. But my vote COULD make Obama president. So please tell me - how best can I use my vote in this situation? I want to do what is best for my country and I'm not afraid to use the system against the system (that is change parties at the last possible moment to vote one for a candidate I don't like in order to prevent another candidate I dislike even more from winning.)

Honestly, the moral and correct thing to do is cast your vote for the person you want to be President. Period. End of story.

But, since you're being pragmatic about it, I'll offer my two cents.

Generally speaking, Obama is the most dangerous of the three candidates you mentioned because, just like you, lots of people feel that he "has good intentions." Not only could this not be further from the truth, it will result in more of his "vision of change" being implemented because more people will give him the benefit of the doubt. Clinton is much safer for liberty than Obama because so many people dislike her -- mark my words, Congress will do much less to derail Obama's socialist, anti-liberty agenda than Clinton's.

Regarding the war, Congress has the power to stop it. They simply need to cut off funding. As Ron Paul himself has pointed out, the soldiers will not suffer from this because there is always money in the pipeline to execute a safe, orderly withdrawal. Our Congress, as usual, is passing the political buck just like they did when they signed the "Authorization to use Force..." If you want the war to stop, vote for members of Congress who have the courage to stop funding it.


To give you a specific example of why Obama does not have "good intentions," just look at his plan for "Universal Voluntary Public Service." I'm not joking, he actually calls it that. It's on his website, under "Issues - Service." How can something that is "voluntary" also be "universal" you might ask? Simple - just look at the specifics. His recommendation includes something called The American Opportunity Tax Credit which gives college students a yearly $4,000 fully refundable tax credit for doing 100 hours of service, and this is meant to be used to pay for college tuition. MANY students will do this if it's available because it amounts to $40 per hour in wages, since it's fully-refundable and not a simple tax deduction. AND, just like all other tax credits including the Hope and Lifetime Learning tax credits, this credit will only increase tuition prices and thus increase America's dependence on getting federal funds to help lessen the burden of paying for college (this conclusion was also reached by economists working for the Clinton administration in the 90s, a major reason they didn't pursue a tax credit scheme). It's a simple power play for the government to get more control over education, just like they did with the No Child Left Behind nonsense -- "give" schools and students more money, then threaten to take it away if they don't do what the government demands. In the case of NCLB, the government demands a dizzying array of standardized tests that do nothing to enhance education, and only result in more students being trained to sit up, fetch, and play dead when they're told, metaphorically speaking of course. In the case of the American Opportunity Tax credit, it's simply the government forcing students to do public service under threat of taking away $4,000 per year which they'll need to pay for college once tuition rises again as a direct result of so many people using the tax credit. If you look closely, most of Obama's "Universal" (aka Socialist) plans are like this -- give money away, which artificially distorts the market and increases prices, then threaten to take the money away, which you now need more than you did before his programs, if you don't do what he demands.

Hope this sheds some light on the subject for you. Vote your conscience.

Edit: Ron Paul does not like Obama. I've certainly never seen anything to substantiate this, and all of Ron Paul's positions are the antithesis of Obama's.
 
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I will not vote for McCain, Hillary or Obama. I am a Ron Paul Republican. The National GOP did not want to acknowledge Ron Paul during the primaries therefore, I will not acknowledge them or their hand picked nominee. I hope the Republican Party implodes from a lack of support. I will vote my conscience and cast a protest vote and/or not vote at all (which will be the same as a protest vote).

I almost entirely agree Charles, although it did warm my heart to see RP get 5% in Ohio and Texas :D It's only 1 out of 20 people (republican voters though... so not gen pop), but the way I see it that is a huge victory in itself. Hell, if 1 in 20 people truly understood economic history we wouldn't see this huge surge towards socialism that we're currently witnessing. So a protest vote, IMHO, is a tad bit better than no vote at all.
 
If you can settle for a 95% dirtbag, go ahead I guess...

I know I can't, and never will again. That's probably the most important lesson I've picked up in this campaign... That we don't HAVE to settle for the lesser of two evils, and as long as we do compromise on this issue, things will never change.

I voted for RP in the NY primary. But McCain has secured the nomination. This isn't the same scenario as when I voted, and that 5% is a step in the right direction. We absolutely cannot let Hillary win. McCain stands no chance against Obama.

If Obama does not deliver, that's the awakening of the public we need.
 
Because as Florida in 2000 taught us (and Ohio in 2004) one vote can really matter.

Give me a break....as close Florida in 2000 was the candidates needed to have a tie so you could cast your tiebreaker vote.

Do the right thing and vote for RP
 
don't even think about it: VOTE RON PAUL! In the latest memo, it was stated he will be campaigning especially in PA! Doesn't get much clearer than that!:cool:
 
Forgive me if this has been covered, I might have missed it while skimming the thread, but your vote isn't that important.

It just isn't.

In reality, it means almost nothing. Delegates are selected by being elected themselves in PA, so you could vote for McCain and also all pro-Ron Paul delegates, or vote for Obama but elect all pro-Clinton delegates.

All delegates in PA are unpledged, and can support whom they see fit at their respective conventions.

So in reality, your vote is simple showing a preference, but has no binding influence. So voting for Obama to try and oust Clinton simply won't work.

What's important - more important than actually voting for Ron Paul - is to vote for delegates that you know are pro-Ron Paul. Delegates that will go to the convention and cast their vote for RP regardless of the outcome of our primary election.
 
Forgive me if this has been covered, I might have missed it while skimming the thread, but your vote isn't that important.

It just isn't.

In reality, it means almost nothing. Delegates are selected by being elected themselves in PA, so you could vote for McCain and also all pro-Ron Paul delegates, or vote for Obama but elect all pro-Clinton delegates.

All delegates in PA are unpledged, and can support whom they see fit at their respective conventions.

So in reality, your vote is simple showing a preference, but has no binding influence. So voting for Obama to try and oust Clinton simply won't work.

What's important - more important than actually voting for Ron Paul - is to vote for delegates that you know are pro-Ron Paul. Delegates that will go to the convention and cast their vote for RP regardless of the outcome of our primary election.

That's a good point. Can somebody tell me who I should vote for in the city of Pittsburgh as delegates for Ron Paul?
 
That's a good point. Can somebody tell me who I should vote for in the city of Pittsburgh as delegates for Ron Paul?

as far as i know, that list hasn't been mailed out yet. But keep checkin here and someone will pm it to you im sure.
 
Ten years from now when this country has completely gone to hell I want to be able to look my children in the eye and say "Daddy did NOT vote for Hillary/McCain/Obama".

Regards,

John M. Drake

+1

I can't believe this thread was started.....

Of course you vote for Ron Paul.
 
but there is a part of me that wonders - even though he will tax and spend us into the ground (just like McCain and Clinton I might add) he has good intentions. Clearly he is the least of the three evils. And I even get the feeling Ron Paul likes him (though he rightly seems to believe he is misguided)

Good intentions mean nothing: votes, actions, signatures mean things. His votes don't show him being better than Hillary. His platform doesn't show that either: things like banning concealed weapons shows an ignorance of what the bill of rights is about.

I don't think it is clear that he is the least of three evils. But that seems to be just me. If you want to vote for Obama, fine, but get reasons other than "he feels good, he seems like a nice chap" to back it up. Things like: I like this aspect of his platform more, I like this vote he made more. Not he spouted some feel-good rhetoric or something.
 
Obviously, you are on a Ron Paul forum with Ron paul/liberty fanatics. Highly principled people who, for the most part, never give up. Of course we are going to tell you to still vote for Paul.

It doesn't matter whether Clinton or Obama make it in. They both will further demolish our liberty, our rights (or privileges as George Carlin calls them..lol), our voice, and our income. Taxes will sky rocket, inflation will probably continue to rise...it is of no use choosing between two people who won't end the war like they promised, who won't have a positive long-term effect on our economy, who won't look to the Constitution for guidance, who can't restore of freedoms, who won't eliminate the evil federal income tax, or who won't fight to put an end to the overbearing, corporately owned Federal Reserve bank that regulates our money. Go with Ron Paul and never give up the fight for liberty.
 
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