Should Crimea become an independent nation?

[eduardo89]

Interesting. Seems like a marriage that benefitted everyone else but themselves!

Pretty much. Germany had no reason to go into North Africa or anywhere near Greece, but they felt obligated to bail out their allies. Horrible mistake.

 

[klamath]

I agree that the Crimean population should determine their own fate. Also over 95% of the population of Chechnya is Chechen. They want to be independent. That doesn't stop Russia from hypocritically disagreeing and imposing their imperialism with atrocities:

A fact many Russian apologists ignore. I am not anti Russian as I have Russians in my family and contact with the Russian part of the family. Never met more decent people. It is with the world individual people I stand and shutter when I see them caught in the war machines of the world.

 

[AngryCanadian]

Also over 95% of the population of Chechnya is Chechen and the majority of these beloved Chechens that you support are in Syria fighting along side the FSA.

 

[AngryCanadian]

A fact many Russian apologists ignore. I am not anti Russian as I have Russians in my family and contact with the Russian part of the family. Never met more decent people. It is with the world individual people I stand and shutter when I see them caught in the war machines of the world.

Also over 95% of the population of Chechnya is Chechen and the majority of these beloved Chechens that you support are in Syria fighting along side the FSA. Lets ignore that fact as well.

I am not anti Russian as I have Russians in my family and contact with the Russian part of the family.

I am sure you arent anti Russian just like How McCain claims he just supports the Russian people Right?

 

[DFF]

Actually Switzerland would have been invaded by Hitler had they not rallied so many troops to protect themselves. The Swiss troops would have superior numbers and better weapons than the German-Italian invasion, so Hitler aborted it.

Whether this is accurate or not I don't know. But I do know that the Nazis had many sympathizers within Switzerland. The Swiss in the north used to ring the bells frequently as a show of support during the war.

 

[klamath]

Also over 95% of the population of Chechnya is Chechen and the majority of these beloved Chechens that you support are in Syria fighting along side the FSA. Lets ignore that fact as well.


I am sure you arent anti Russian just like How McCain claims he just supports the Russian people Right?

You aren't worth the time. you have no logical arguments. Like a child that learned a new word....Neocon

 

[RickyJ]

It's amazing how this false narrative has been created that says that Ukraine must be aligned with the EU or with Russia and there are no other options. How about a free and independent Crimea that is friendly with both the Ukraine and Russia?

They could align with China, but that would be weird. What any of this has to do with the USA is the question. Why don't our politicians stop threatening other nations and start making laws that help bring manufacturing back to the USA? We can't control the world, we can't even control our own nation, so it is about time to stop trying to be the police man of the world, no one appreciates it except the military industrial complex.

 

[Mini-Me]

They could align with China, but that would be weird. What any of this has to do with the USA is the question. Why don't our politicians stop threatening other nations and start making laws that help bring manufacturing back to the USA? We can't control the world, we can't even control our own nation, so it is about time to stop trying to be the police man of the world, no one appreciates it except the military industrial complex.

Why? From a neocon perspective, they're desperately trying to enforce the petrodollar by military intimidation (as they have since the 1970's) so it doesn't crumble and drive the US economy into a nearly pre-industrial state once we can't buy cheap imports with printed money (including oil...although THANKFULLY we are finally producing enough of our own energy that we'll be able to maintain our food transport network and survive the collapse without famines, barring a nuclear holocaust in World War III). It's an ultimately counterproductive way of doing things, but it's the only way they know, and their imperial hubris and thirst for worldwide domination knows no bounds.

From a globalist perspective, the puppetmasters behind US leadership ultimately don't really care what happens to the US anyway: It's just a means to an end for them...a cudgel. If the US is utterly destroyed in an attempt to establish a worldwide currency and government, their best friends will get plenty of golden parachutes to help them try through the EU and UN instead. Heck, the humbling and demise of the world's first serious experiment in limited government will just be icing on the cake for them.

 

[ThePenguinLibertarian]

It's amazing how this false narrative has been created that says that Ukraine must be aligned with the EU or with Russia and there are no other options. How about a free and independent Crimea that is friendly with both the Ukraine and Russia?

Can't Happen. The Remainder of Ukraine will be Pro EU, and Russia does not like the EU. Crimea will align itself with Russia.

 

[KingNothing]

Could be said about nearly all the countries he invaded. Greece, Yugoslavia, The Netherlands etc etc.

It's almost like the guy who wanted to systematically exterminate giant swaths of the population and take over the world wasn't always all there mentally.

 

[KingNothing]

Insofar as we can do it on the cheap, it behooves us to prevent any other state from increasing in power. Given that truth, I'd say it is best for America if nothing changes in the region and Crimea remains part of Ukraine, and Russia doesn't gobble it up, which is exactly what would happen if it became independent.

With that said, I'm not sure what Russia really gains by owning Crimea outright, rather than just implicitly, as they already did.

 

[Mini-Me]

Insofar as we can do it on the cheap, it behooves us to prevent any other state from increasing in power. Given that truth, I'd say it is best for America if nothing changes in the region and Crimea remains part of Ukraine, and Russia doesn't gobble it up, which is exactly what would happen if it became independent.

With that said, I'm not sure what Russia really gains by owning Crimea outright, rather than just implicitly, as they already did.

You're confused about what Russia has to gain because you're looking at this backwards, as if Russia was the initiating party for this whole mess. The status quo was working just fine for them, just as you suspect. Their plans are to economically compete with the US by replacing the petrodollar in partnership with China et al, and having de facto loyalty from Crimea and a non-hostile Ukrainian government was enough to keep the oil flowing and keep these plans viable.

What changed? The US, etc. decided to make a play in Ukraine, foment revolution as usual, and install a new regime that would align the whole country with the EU. This new regime is basically run and enforced by Svoboda Party neo-Nazis who quote Goebbels and Goering, but they've installed a more palatable figurehead from the less-obviously-nazi-yet-more-blatantly-named Fatherland Party...go figure. Above you seemed to consider this intervention as evidence that the CIA and Obama are "less lost" than you thought (implying approval?)...except it should be apparent from our historical interventions and from what's going on right now that it's actually evidence the CIA is a completely reckless destabilizing force in the world that brings a lot of bad karma upon the US. Instead of competing economically and ending all of the money-printing necessary to sustain an empire, we instead try to protect the petrodollar with regime changes and the same costly military intimidation that endangered its reserve currency status in the first place...and even when it means backing "Al Qaeda" in Syria (because that worked out well the first time with Operation Cyclone, right? ), fascists in Egypt (because it worked in South America with Pinochet et al, right?), and overt neo-Nazis in Ukraine (what could go wrong, right?). Oh, and we're trying to install a puppet government in Venezuela at the moment too, but with all the other regime changes going on, it's hard to keep up with it all. This is what the CIA does: Pursue short-term interests at all costs.

I want to reiterate that I don't agree with Russia's intervention either, but if you look at this from the implicit assumption that they started this, you're bound to be totally confused about "Why?" Of course, now that the US government has instigated trouble again, expect Russia to exploit the situation to get whatever it can out of it, since they're already committed to intervening in this debacle. Barring World War III, Russia will probably come out of this looking better and stronger than they did previously...but hey, NOBODY could have predicted that US meddling would backfire, right? It's not like it's an inevitable result or anything just because it happens every time. Next time we just have to try it more on the DL and more on the cheap, and it will all work out for the best for once.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

Can't Happen. The Remainder of Ukraine will be Pro EU, and Russia does not like the EU. Crimea will align itself with Russia.

They could be relatively friendly if they want to. It is starting to look like there will be a more autonomous Crimea, more aligned with Russia. Ukraine looks like they want to become slaves of the Central Bankers. Under those conditions, it would be better to be a Crimean than a Ukrainian.

 

[HOLLYWOOD]

If you heard how Russia has invaded this pass week on the news/infotainment circuits about conflicts(Crimea, Ukraine, Georgia, Sochi)... of course the 'Talking Heads' on corporate airwaves, plus the think tanks, DC policy centers, foundations, have been digging up the Russian invasion in Georgia in 2008. All of US propaganda media and the US based policy organizations are rewriting history(Once Again) about the Georgian conflict with Russia and let's not leave out, that CIA/MOSSAD presidential puppet Mikheil Saakashvili along with the rest of TEAM CIA; Lado Gurgenidze. Don't forget criminal MOSSAD agent, as well as ex-defense minister and former head of the Georgian financial police, Davit Kezerashvili. How this mastermind was the other end of the orchestrated covert arms trade from Israel to Georgia(remember Israel getting involved in the Georgian ops?), along with a slew of other illegal operations. You can read about it and more in the book about merchants of death and Kezerashvili in: The Shadow World: Inside the Global Arms Trade


Russia is the protectorate of South Ossetia and Abkhazian, these 2 states have always wanted their independence from Georgia. Though you can't take everything for granted, once again, one must always reflect back to what former CIA Bin Laden station chief, Michael Scheuer warned, Wherever there is conflict in the world, count on the CIA being in the middle of it. This whole Kiev-Ukraine CIA/et al operations has been going on for quite some time, and I hope it all comes to the surface and those involved exposed.Don't believe any of the junk a majority of the planet is being fed by the government clown cart and media's bread & circuses broadcasting. I'll stick to my observant cynicism out there too, Wherever John McCain travels and meets around the world, look the fuck out, because destruction and death are on their way!

PS: Maybe John McCain should be nicknamed: 'Senator Grimm Reaper' because death and destruction poisons the path he travels.

Nothing on Planet Earth can be free anymore because of the banking cartel and government's thirst by RICO conquests that invade freedom and liberty everywhere.

 

[jllundqu]

How is what's happening in Crimea impacting anything here in the US? Answer: It isn't.

Internal struggles of nations on the other side of the globe are not our concern. The people of Crimea should decide their fate.

Wasn't the president of Ukraine elected and then illegally ousted? Would not our support for the interim government be the same thing that happened in Egypt? It is US Law that we cannot support any force that supplants an elected government, even ones we don't like.

I find it stranger and stranger that I find logic and reason in what PUTIN is doing versus our own government. Strange days.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

It's amazing how this false narrative has been created that says that Ukraine must be aligned with the EU or with Russia and there are no other options. How about a free and independent Crimea that is friendly with both the Ukraine and Russia?

Post referendum update: As I suspected, the option of total independence was not on the table. Everyone wanted this to be a tug of war with only two options. Stay with Ukraine and join the EU, or join Russia. No other options were allowed by the powers that be on both sides. Would the people of Crimea like a totally independent Crimea? We'll never know.

Here's a good thread on the referendum itself:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...thin-it-the-%93Status-Quo%94-to-stay-the-same

 

[Uriah]

How is what's happening in Crimea impacting anything here in the US? Answer: It isn't.

Internal struggles of nations on the other side of the globe are not our concern. The people of Crimea should decide their fate.

Wasn't the president of Ukraine elected and then illegally ousted? Would not our support for the interim government be the same thing that happened in Egypt? It is US Law that we cannot support any force that supplants an elected government, even ones we don't like.

I find it stranger and stranger that I find logic and reason in what PUTIN is doing versus our own government. Strange days.

Reminds me of Honduras.