Should babies be baptized?

[moostraks]

Of course babies should be Baptised. It's a Christian parent's duty to have their kids initiated into the family of God.

Depends on what one views to be initiating into the family of believers...

 

[Todd]

I guess if you want to baptize kids and don't hold any spirtitual magic about the act then it's fine. But.....

If you go by what it says in scripture then no. A baby has no understanding of it.

only believers who had placed their faith in Christ were baptized - as a public testimony of their faith and identification with Him (Acts 2:38; Romans 6:3-4). Water baptism by immersion is a step of obedience after faith in Christ. It is a proclamation of faith in Christ, a statement of submission to Him, and an identification with His death, burial, and resurrection.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/infant-baptism.html#ixzz3VQKvMhsy

 

[heavenlyboy34]

That can equally be accomplished through a baby blessing.

According to whom?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

FWIW:
http://orthodoxwiki.org/Infant_baptism

The validity of the baptism of infants is often doubted by many protestants. This is largely derived from the theology of the Anabaptists, a group that rose out of the Radical Reformation. The Schleitheim Confession, an early Swiss Anabaptist creed that was written in 1527, is quoted as saying:
"Baptism shall be given to all those who have learned repentance and amendment of life, and who believe truly that their sins are taken away by Christ, and to all those who walk in the resurrection of Jesus Christ, and wish to be buried with Him in death, so that they may be resurrected with Him and to all those who with this significance request it (baptism) of us and demand it for themselves. This excludes all infant baptism, the highest and chief abomination of the Pope."
This, of course, is contrary to the teachings of Orthodoxy, which correctly teaches that infants are perfectly capable of being in the Body of Christ. As pointed out by Origen, in his Homily to the Romans, "the Church received from the apostles the tradition of baptizing infants too."
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[TD][h=2]Contents[/h] [hide]

• 1 Infant Baptism as the New Circumcision
• 2 Salvific Power of Baptism
  • 2.1 Personal Death Within Christ
  • 2.2 The Family As One Flesh
• 3 Possible Biblical References
• 4 References

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[h=2]Infant Baptism as the New Circumcision[/h] The early church often contrasted the rite of baptism to that of circumcision. In the same way the rite of Circumcision initiated one into the nation of Israel and the Jewish people, the rite of Baptism brings one into the life of the Church.
"In him you were also circumcised with a circumcision not performed by human hands. Your whole self ruled by the flesh was put off when you were circumcised by Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through your faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead." Colossians 2:11-12
This line of reasoning was carried on by the Holy Fathers. For example, Hilary of Poitiers[1], Augustine[2], and Cyprian[3] all expressed the idea that Circumcision is connected to the Rite of Baptism.
[h=2]Salvific Power of Baptism[/h] The view that baptism is one rational and personal affirmation of faith is called Credobaptism and is shared by most Baptists and most and Evangelicals today. One can rightfully claim that the postion known as Credobaptism is a "recent" invention, rather than the position of the 1st century Church. Furthermore, this position is not shared by the Orthodox Church since the the New Testement in several areas specifically teaches that baptism is a rebirth, a nessity for salvation, and has the ability to wash away sins. For example:

"He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Mark 16:16

"Jesus replied, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.'How can someone be born when they are old?' Nicodemus asked. 'Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!' Jesus answered, 'Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit'." John 3:3-5

"And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins,calling on his name." Acts 22:16


"And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God." 1 Corinthians 6:11
[h=3]Personal Death Within Christ[/h] The Church has always taught that the means of baptism's power to give rebirth is that of a personal death in Christ. By taking part in the rite of baptism, one is actually mystically dying within Christ and is then being resurrected with him. Support of this, the New Testement proclaims:

"We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life." Romans 6:4

"for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ." Gal. 3:27

"And when you were baptized, it was the same as being buried with Christ. Then you were raised to life because you had faith in the power of God, who raised Christ from death." Colossians 2:12


[h=3]The Family As One Flesh[/h] The need for infant baptism can also be deduced from Trinitarian theology and the Church's teachings in regard to the family. In accordance to Genesis 2:24, a man and a women make up one flesh. This is because the family unit is an icon of the Trinity, reflecting the image of God. John 10:30 correctly points out that the Father and Son are one. Thus, since the family is an icon of the Trinity, the children of a family are considered to be of one flesh with their parents. Because of this, it becomes a preference not to receive person individually but communally into the Church via baptism. This of course would require children and infants to be present.
[h=2]Possible Biblical References[/h] Although there are no direct examples of infants being baptized in the Bible, there are numerous indirect references.

"Jesus said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.'" Matthew 19:14 (Note: Christ clearly says that baptism is necessary for salvation. "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved" Mark 16:16).


"People were also bringing babies to Jesus for him to place his hands on them. When the disciples saw this, they rebuked them. But Jesus called the children to him and said, 'Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these. Truly I tell you, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like a little child will never enter it.'" Luke 18:15-17 (Note: Here the people bring their infants to the Christ in the hope that He will bless them. A blessing is understood by the Church to mean an impartation of grace. Thus, the reception of grace is not dependent on an "age of reason".)


"Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.” Acts 2:38-39

"When she and the members of her household were baptized, she invited us to her home. 'If you consider me a believer in the Lord,' she said, 'come and stay at my house.' And she persuaded us." Acts 16:15

"At that hour of the night the jailer took them and washed their wounds; then immediately he and all his household were baptized." Acts 16:33

 

[RJB]

scripture? getting a baby wet with water does not save a babies soul. What is the point? A baby does not know they are in need of a savior and there is no evidence in the Word about infants being baptized, none.

Did I say any of that?

 

[RJB]

That can equally be accomplished through a baby blessing.

Baptism sounds like a great way of doing just that.

 

[RJB]

There seems to be a great contention about whether the baby has any say. Does a 7 year old child really have any say if the parent pressures him to "accept" Jesus. Does a lawyer have any true profession of faith if he gets baptized in his 30s if it is only done as a way to join the largest church in town to gain clients?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

There seems to be a great contention about whether the baby has any say. Does a 7 year old child really have any say if the parent pressures him to "accept" Jesus. Does a lawyer have any true profession of faith if he gets baptized in his 30s if it is only done as a way to join the largest church in town to gain clients?

While y'all are discussing that, plz discuss the issue of a retarded adult with the mental capacity of a child.

 

[RJB]

While y'all are discussing that, plz discuss the issue of a retarded adult with the mental capacity of a child.

I mentioned a lawyer. What else do you want?

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I mentioned a lawyer. What else do you want?

LMAO!!! Crooks aren't necessarily retarded, so it seems a different issue to me.

 

[Theocrat]

"A Baby Doesn't Know"?

scripture? getting a baby wet with water does not save a babies soul. What is the point? A baby does not know they are in need of a savior and there is no evidence in the Word about infants being baptized, none.

Kevin, I'd like to see the Scriptural support that affirms what you've said above as true that "a baby does not know they are in need of a Savior." For example, contrary to your notion above, King David, who was "a man after God's heart" and one who was filled with the Holy Spirit as he wrote his Psalms, penned these words in Psalm 22:9-10:

But Thou art He That took me out of the womb; Thou didst make me hope when I was upon my mother's breasts. I was cast upon Thee from the womb; Thou art my God from my mother's belly.

And, again, David wrote in Psalm 71:5-6 (by the inspiration of the Holy Ghost):

For Thou art my hope, O Lord GOD; Thou art my trust from my youth. By Thee have I been holden up from the womb; Thou art He That took me out of my mother's bowels. My praise shall be continually of Thee.

Faith is a gift from God, as we're told in several places in Scripture, and since God is the Author and Finisher of our faith (cf. Hebrews 12:2), then it should not be thought impossible that God can give faith to infants, even while they are inside their mother's womb (as King David told us). So, given what I've presented above, I would say that you are coming from a perspective about infant faith which people like King David would have disagreed with you about, Kevin.

 

[moostraks]

While y'all are discussing that, plz discuss the issue of a retarded adult with the mental capacity of a child.

Because the Creator won't let anyone in who hasn't been properly doused?

 

[Theocrat]

"No Evidence of Infants Being Baptized in the Bible"?

scripture? getting a baby wet with water does not save a babies soul. What is the point? A baby does not know they are in need of a savior and there is no evidence in the Word about infants being baptized, none.

Kevin, you've also made the claim that there is no evidence in the Bible about infants being baptized. However, you've forgotten what the apostle Paul reminded the Corinthian Church about in his first epistle to them about baptism, in Chapter 10. Beginning at Verses 1-4, Paul says:

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea and were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea and did all eat the same spiritual meat and did all drink the same spiritual drink, for they drank of that spiritual Rock That followed them, and That Rock was Christ.

So, Paul tells us that our covenant ancestors, the Israelites, were all baptized during the Exodus. Were there children in the host of Israel during their passing through of the Red Sea? Yes, there was. In Exodus 10:8-10, it records:

And Moses and Aaron were brought again unto Pharaoh, and he said unto them, "Go, serve the LORD your God, but who are they that shall go?"

And Moses said, "We will go with our young and with our old, with our sons and with our daughters, with our flocks and with our herds will we go, for we must hold a feast unto the LORD."

And he said unto them, "Let the LORD be so with you, as I will let you go, and your little ones. Look to it, for evil is before you."

Therefore, we know that during Israel's baptism "under the cloud" and "in the sea" there were children present. How was baptism administered upon them all? Psalm 77:14-20 gives us a picture, stating:

Thou art the God That doest wonders; Thou hast declared Thy strength among the people.

Thou hast with Thine arm redeemed Thy people, the sons of Jacob and Joseph. Selah.

The waters saw Thee, O God, the waters saw Thee; they were afraid. The depths also were troubled.

The clouds poured out water; the skies sent out a sound; Thine arrows also went abroad.

The voice of Thy thunder was in the heaven; the lightnings lightened the world; The earth trembled and shook.

Thy way is in the sea, and Thy path in the great waters, and Thy footsteps are not known.

Thou leddest Thy people like a flock by the hand of Moses and Aaron. [Emphasis mine]

So, there we have an example, given to us by the apostle Paul, of infants and little children being baptized in Scripture.

 

[RJB]

Because the Creator won't let anyone in who hasn't been properly doused?

That's an odd thing to say to HB from someone who claims to know the Orthodox faith. What do you believe that Baptism is?

 

[jmdrake]

According to whom?

Jesus. That's what He did when the mothers brought the babies to Him. It's interesting that this is the same passage where Jesus said "Let the little children come to Me and don't forbid them for of such is the kingdom of heaven." Then, according to the Bible, He placed his hand on their heads and blessed them! Note that Jesus was already baptizing people at this time so this would be the perfect place to introduce infant baptism. He didn't do that. I keep bringing this up and you and other EOC/RCC Christians keep ignoring it like this story isn't even in the Bible. Worse you misuse the quote from Jesus in this story to support infant baptism.

This wouldn't be so irritating if you took the position "Well our church does infant baptism and other churches bless babies so it's all good." But no. You on the one hand act like "Oh it's no big deal" when people point out that fallacy of believing that baptism is a requirement for a baby to go to heaven, but then you try and turn around and act like infant baptism is a requirement when you have absolutely no biblical basis to make that claim.

/rant

 

[jmdrake]

Baptism sounds like a great way of doing just that.

Sure. That's just not what Jesus did. He blessed the babies brought to Him and baptized his followers.

 

[jmdrake]

There seems to be a great contention about whether the baby has any say. Does a 7 year old child really have any say if the parent pressures him to "accept" Jesus. Does a lawyer have any true profession of faith if he gets baptized in his 30s if it is only done as a way to join the largest church in town to gain clients?

Does a businessman have a true profession of love when he marries a woman just to get at her family fortune? How about a king? Using your logic that some people make false professions, infant marriage should be the rule of the day too.

 

[jmdrake]

Kevin, you've also made the claim that there is no evidence in the Bible about infants being baptized. However, you've forgotten what the apostle Paul reminded the Corinthian Church about in his first epistle to them about baptism, in Chapter 10. Beginning at Verses 1-4, Paul says:



So, Paul tells us that our covenant ancestors, the Israelites, were all baptized during the Exodus. Were there children in the host of Israel during their passing through of the Red Sea? Yes, there was. In Exodus 10:8-10, it records:



Therefore, we know that during Israel's baptism "under the cloud" and "in the sea" there were children present. How was baptism administered upon them all? Psalm 77:14-20 gives us a picture, stating:



So, there we have an example, given to us by the apostle Paul, of infants and little children being baptized in Scripture.

Okay. Just go camping in the rain and everybody is baptized.

 

[RJB]

Does a businessman have a true profession of love when he marries a woman just to get at her family fortune? How about a king? Using your logic that some people make false professions, infant marriage should be the rule of the day too.

You're going in a different direction than I. I was more of talking to those who were dismissing Baptism as merely dousing with water.

As the father of my household it is my job to raise my kids not just to be good family members of my household but also to the family of God.

“For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” — Matthew 12:50, NIV

From day one I've prayed and instructed my children to do the will of the Father. They may not fully understand but they get it little by little from a surprisingly early age.

To your point. They will eventually marry whom they chose. I will give my advice, but of everything, I can teach them, having a close prayerful relation with God is the #1 thing I can do as a parent.

 

[jmdrake]

You're going in a different direction than I. I was more of talking to those who were dismissing Baptism as merely dousing with water.

As the father of my household it is my job to raise my kids not just to be good family members of my household but also to the family of God.

From day one I've prayed and instructed my children to do the will of the Father. They may not fully understand but they get it little by little from a surprisingly early age.

To your point. They will eventually marry whom they chose. I will give my advice, but of everything, I can teach them, having a close prayerful relation with God is the #1 thing I can do as a parent.

I think that's grand and wonderful and if infant baptism is a part of your plan, buddy go for it! Those who did what Jesus did and bless their infants are just as sincere about rearing them in the admonition of the Lord as you are.