Shots fired, Bundy arrested

Badger Paul said:
"I DON'T believe in the process and you're a fool if you do. And I'll stay right here despite your belief that you are the director of all things RPF's. "

I'm no director, I'm just giving you some friendly advice. Nearly 29,000 posts since 2007 on a website supposedly devoted to political activism and you're basically calling armed revolution by this point and all I can say is you've wasted your time. But, it's yours to do so.

And that goes for everyone. Do the moderators of RPF want half the posts to be about politics and the campaign and the other half consisting of takeover plots that might interest the FBI? Because that's where its headed. That's how alienated people are. They're not worried about the campaign. I don't disagree with anything that's been said about corruption or in some cases unconstitutional action. But since that's been going on in all governments and institutions since the beginning of time in all nations, shooting off your guns or taking control of a Post Office isn't going to change it. Life goes on, you make the most of it where you can and how you can legally. That's what I believe and if others disagree that's fine. But the Paul movement and RPF in monitoring it is largely statist - because it is going through the legitimate political process and does what it does through that process and believes in that process, like it or not. If you reject that, fine. But you're wasting your time being here then. I don't want censorship but I'm not going to be a party to people's Tea Party fantasies either and as I said, I hope the website and those running it aren't smeared or harassed by it either.
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This is the kind of "freedom lover" that becomes an authoritarian should he ever get into power. DO THINGS MY WAY!! Good bye "freedom lover"!!
 
Badger Paul said:
They're being brought to justice. That's what's going on.
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"Justice," eh?

2. This was totally unnecessary since the resolve of the occupiers was weakening and they were in negotiations to achieve a peaceable exit. What the hurry was is mystifying to me since the Feds negotiated with the Montana Freemen for 81 days before coming to a peaceful resolution.

3. Our attitude was that as much as we disagreed with Ammon Bundy's choice of targets, tactics, timing and "friends" like the sociopath (and probable Fed provocateur) Ryan Payne, the Feds had a higher duty not to violate the occupiers' due process rights.

4. A sniper's bullet at a pre-planned roadblock is NOT due process.

5. Such an action would not have been done without the sanction of the political leadership in the White House. Therefore we can conclude that this is, once again, the Feds making a show of the Waco logic embodied in Catch 22: "We can do anything you can't stop us from doing. We are the Imperial Feds and you WILL obey us."
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Just Us.
 
GunnyFreedom said:
If what I was heard is correct, Ryan Payne has multiple gunshot wounds from the recent shootout/arrest.

If true, while it reduces the credibility of his being a fed provocateur, it increases the possibility of his simply being an undisciplined hothead. I obviously do not know what happened, but i would not be surprised if Payne lost his cool and LaVoy Finicum got caught in the crossfire. :(
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Mayhaps....

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/militant_shot_and_killed_while.html

McConnell said Payne and Cox later recounted how Payne and Finicum got into a "heated discussion" about what to do.

"LaVoy was passionate about this, about the movement," McConnell said.

McConnell said he noticed movement, and Finicum "took off" in the pickup with the remaining passengers. He said Payne and Cox described encountering a police roadblock about a mile north on the highway and apparently tried to get around it, becoming stuck in the snow.

"When he exited the vehicle, the rear wheels were still spinning," McConnell said. "He charged at law enforcement" and was shot.

McConnell disputed earlier accounts on social media that Finicum was shot while on his knees with his hands up.
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Weston White said:
They capitalized on an incident to bring attention to their own directly related situation, both which are national--as this affects more than a single state. Do you think the feds give a crap if you write them letters from the safety of your home office? You will simply be ignored or blown off with a canned response. They do not care about you or your concerns. You are less than a whisper in a crowded stadium to them.

The "aggrieved family" has no direct involvement with the BLM's offices--and regardless they are under duress by the feds, so of course they are not going to speak against their captors.

And they did not go across the country, they drove over to the adjacent state.

So, what is your alternative? A mass hunger-strike?
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I think you defend what is yours and you defend those who ask for your help.

JK/SEA said:
so i guess we're just going to wait and watch as these patriots get killed, shake our heads and tell ourselves this was an ill advised op, and tune in to American Idol tonight with the pop corn and drinks...move along, nothing to see here...
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While I think it was ill advised, I am not opposed to miltias in general. I also think it was a damn shame somebody got killed.

Badger Paul said:
The Weather Underground thought they were doing the right thing too.

"It should be obvious to anyone awake that the Hammonds went back to jail to protect their families. No one in their right mind would desire to be jailed TWICE for the same offense. Rather unconstitutional, wouldn't you agree?"

I agree completely and the prosecutor needs to be investigated but taking control of a Federal building by people who have no connection to the family or anyone else in the area and just looking for trouble and disrupting innocent people's lives in the process isn't going to help the situation and just makes things worse.

I'm not gloating over anyone's death. I'm just happy this situation is finally starting coming to a close and this Johnny Reb crap is being exposed for the idiocy that it is and Bundys and others are hardly revolutionaries. Bottom line is you either believe in the process or you don't and if you don't then I would ask you take yourselves away from RPF and retreat to your compounds because you have no business being here.
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FWIW my late father was an SDS chapter president and the FBI used to come banging on our door looking for Weather Underground members in the 70's when I was a kid. I don't think the Weather Underground was doing the right thing, but I do think the Bundys were at their ranch. I don't agree with them taking this building.

dannno said:
Nah, I'm just tired of hearing some dude yammer on who thinks what the Hammond's lawyer said under threat as some sort of gospel truth about what the Hammonds actually think.
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IMO if they though otherwise, they would not have reported to jail and made a stand on their ranch. I actually would have supported that action.
 
wizardwatson said:
This article saying dead protester pulled a gun...

Don't know if this info has already propagated. Not following the thread that close

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...t-oregon-protest-leader-ammon-bundy/79392112/

EDIT: "Unidentified sources", of course
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Two different accounts. One a second hand source citing Ryan Payne, who was in the vehicle, said LaVoy Finicum charged the Feds. The second a first hand account from an 18 yr. old female in the car saying he was gunned down with hands raised. Both accounts are several pages back because of the detritus clogging the thread up.
 
Indy Vidual said:
emotional; based on inner experience rather than fact.
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everyone has a role to play. Some gravitate to leader positions, and others gravitate to true warrior status, but when leaders go down in the field usually someone else picks up the torch. Its not rocket science.
 
Eye witness account of shooting ---> she was in the car that took the gunfire

 
Last edited:
phill4paul said:
Two different accounts. One a second hand source citing Ryan Payne, who was in the vehicle, said LaVoy Finicum charged the Feds. The second a first hand account from an 18 yr. old female in the car saying he was gunned down with hands raised. Both accounts are several pages back because of the detritus clogging the thread up.
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So is it two accounts or three?

charging with gun
hands up don't shoot

or

charging
pulling a gun
hands up don't shoot

I'm guessing the former.
 
''you're risking a civil war''.. Rhodes to FEDS

''no more Wacos'' ..Stuart Rhodes

i guess we shall soon find out.
 
wizardwatson said:
So is it two accounts or three?

charging with gun
hands up don't shoot

or

charging
pulling a gun
hands up don't shoot

I'm guessing the former.
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I'm only going to go with two accounts. Anytime a reporter lists an "quoting unidentified sources" tells me that it is a government agent acting on conditions of anonymity to put the official spin out there.
 
phill4paul said:
I'm only going to go with two accounts. Anytime a reporter lists an "quoting unidentified sources" tells me that it is a government agent acting on conditions of anonymity to put the official spin out there.
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EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY (I downloaded it. They were being murdered.)

 
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