Shaming Paul Krugman into debating Austrian economics.

trade barriers now would just mean that most things will be more expensive. this will force the gov. to print even more money, so the only positive i can think is the dollar collapse occurring sooner, and i'm not sure that is a positive.

Yes, that is almost exactly what I surmised as a result instead of slowing the bleeding; rather speeding it up.

As far as whether the collapse occurring sooner is a positive....well I'm the kinda guy that rips the bandage right off and doing the hard work first. I'm not one that likes to slowly waste away..... If the end result is inevitable, then bring it on.
 
Yes, that is almost exactly what I surmised as a result instead of slowing the bleeding; rather speeding it up.

As far as whether the collapse occurring sooner is a positive....well I'm the kinda guy that rips the bandage right off and doing the hard work first. I'm not one that likes to slowly waste away..... If the end result is inevitable, then bring it on.

i'd prefer to postpone it and this is the reason:

it matters what ideas are popular and who is in charge the moment the collapse occurs. if the wrong ideas have taken hold, most people will blame freedom for the collapse. if the right ideas are in place, most people will rightly blame the monetary system.

so if the collapse occurs when statism dominates the debate, the US will stay a third world country for the foreseeable future. and i think our ideas are gaining ground like never before, so in a few years, the senate and the house could have more liberty people than right now, and the country might be more educated to be able to put the blame where it belongs.

that's why if i'd prefer the collapse to be postponed. if ron paul wasn't around and our ideas getting more popular, i wouldn't care when it occurred.
 
This is an incredibly idea and I have chipped in for the cause. Murphy will demolish Krugman. If this works we should replicate it for other things as well.
 
I can't go along with the anti-global free trade. If, after all the regulations and tariffs, the thing you desire still costs more than buying it from somewhere else, then you won't buy it. We can't control what other countries do, nor should we try. They will stifle growth in their own countries.
 
I can't go along with the anti-global free trade. If, after all the regulations and tariffs, the thing you desire still costs more than buying it from somewhere else, then you won't buy it. We can't control what other countries do, nor should we try. They will stifle growth in their own countries.

What I find funny is that proponents would say to Maine, you can import goods from California (And if you have a trade deficit with Cali it isn't bad), but you are foribidden (And or massive tariffs) to trade with Canada. It is asinine to be honest. Lest you forget people, Maine and Cali have vastly different commercial climates, just like NH is the most market friendly state in the country compared to Massachussets who is heavily socialist.

In any event, those on the anti-trade side have no economic merits to bring for such an argument because there is none, as evidenced by AF as to why he supports anti-trade policies (Nationalism).
 
China has no minimum wage laws, no child labor laws, has far less regulations, etc. China actually has a more favorable commercial policy than America has. That is a sad state of affairs. Instead of correctly attributing the problems AF instead says -- look they can produce a good cheaper than we can and thus they are a problem, not our own policies which artificially raise the barrier of market entry and price production!

I could go on much more, but AF seems to believe that China is still a slave economy. They aren't. They have atrocious civil liberty record, but their economy policy is actually more market oriented than ours is. If you want production to return to America, then we must correct our socialistic and fascistic economy and turn it into one of laissez-faire.

Are you nuts? Move to CHina. Become a citizen. Then attempt to establish a union and see how long you live. Try to demand wage increases and see how long you live. Wages are most definitely being artificially depressed by central governing policy.

Hello.
 
No, you are wrong, "my side" has no clout in this debate.

"Your side" has clearly won the field.

My side gets buried in a flood of globalist regulations that I deal with every single day, as middle class wages stagnate, real unemployment runs about 16-17%, more productive work gets outsourced to cheap sources overseas as we're told to "enjoy it, shut up and get to Wal Marx and consume damnit".

NAFTA, CAFTA, GATT, IMO, WTO, and all the rest of the alphabet soup agencies and agreements that now run our country.

Tell me, who is my representative there?

+rep ;)

AF v.s "the gang of three" again. Always a good show. Where's Jace? :D
 
All I have to say about this free trade debate is, Anti Federalist, your big dumb signature is really annoying when scrolling through threads.
 
Can someone fill me in on this "The Point" thing? I want to post some money, but I prefer to do so anonymously. It is telling me that my identity will be shared if the campaign succeeds.
 
One thing I'd like to see in this debate is Krugman's advocacy of death panels and a VAT. One minute he's saying that deficits don't matter and we need to be spending even more, and the next minute he's saying there's going to be heavy pain for the debt and deficits
http://www.server.theadvocates.org/liberator/vol-15-num-19.html
Paul Krugman, the liberal New York Times columnist and alleged economist revered by the statist left, has long mocked those who said Obamacare would lead to health care rationing for the elderly and "death panels."



Graph arrow downSo imagine our surprise to hear Krugman himself call for death panels -- by that very name. On national television, no less.


On ABC's "This Week with Christiane Amanpour," Sunday, November 14, Krugman said:



"Some years down the pike, we're going to get the real solution, which is going to be a combination of death panels and sales taxes. It's going to be that we're actually going to take Medicare under control, and we're going to have to get some additional revenue, probably from a VAT. But it's not going to happen now.


"The Obama healthcare plan passed by Congress in 2010 includes government-run healthcare committees with sweeping powers, including the power to engage in competitive pricing and cost analysis, a system Britain uses that has led to rationing of medical care for the elderly."


After the exchange Krugman, realizing the public outcry his remarks are going to create, tried to rationalize his comments away on his New York Times blog.


However, his blog follow-up basically makes the same argument, just minus the scary "death panel" language.



Excerpts:


"I said something deliberately provocative on This Week, so I think I'd better clarify what I meant...


"So, what I said is that the eventual resolution of the deficit problem both will and should rely on 'death panels and sales taxes'. What I meant is that ... health care costs will have to be controlled, which will surely require having Medicare and Medicaid decide what they're willing to pay for -- not really death panels, of course, but consideration of medical effectiveness and, at some point, how much we're willing to spend for extreme care..."


Hmmm. "Not really death panels, of course." Just... refusing to pay for life-or-death care for some elderly and disabled citizens.


Thanks for clearing that up, Prof. Krugman.
 
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=265068

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=257022

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=262243

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=251768

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=235581

A very quick summation of my position.

"Free Trade" with a nation like China is national suicide. You cannot compete, no business model can compete, with a government run prison state, built on the backs of 50 million dead Chinese peasants.

No nation can remain free and independent if it does nothing for itself, especially when it goes off in search of empire on top of it.

To sell off our entire industrial base and go into massive debt to a nation like China goes beyond foolhardy, beyond insane, it is, quite frankly, treason.

"Free Trade" as it's understood right now, is a globalist sham, a tool to destroy one of the last thorns in the side of the global governance crowd and assimilate us, the American people, the American middle class, into a Borg hive nightmare of third world globalism.



The reason for the links. ;)



I have had a change of heart... AF is absolutely correct. First things first, we need to naval blockade off every country, stop all import and export, make everything ourselves and finally get out of this depression.

The Chinese are coming to get us, they are right next to the terrorists who live under everyone's bed.
 
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