Sens. Mike Lee, Rand Paul are holding up 9/11 victims fund

" simply asking for a vote on an amendment to offset the cost."

If we closed Ft. Campbell, would that offset the cost Senator? Cut tobacco subsides?, coal subsidies? Privatize the TVA? Sheesh! I can think a lot of things which benefit the state of Kentucky from the federal government which gutless Rand doesn't have a problem spending money on which could be used to offset 9-11 first responder costs.

I hear Rand's writing a new book. It's called "How to be an Asshole for Dummies" I'm sure holding up money for 9-11 First Responders will have its own chapter.

Not one single sent has been held up. there is already 5billion already in the fund, enough to go into 2020 and beyond. This bill is for a 70yr fund with no budget and no cap on spending! If you support that shit, you are in the wrong place.
 
" simply asking for a vote on an amendment to offset the cost."

If we closed Ft. Campbell, would that offset the cost Senator? Cut tobacco subsides?, coal subsidies? Privatize the TVA? Sheesh! I can think a lot of things which benefit the state of Kentucky from the federal government which gutless Rand doesn't have a problem spending money on which could be used to offset 9-11 first responder costs.

I hear Rand's writing a new book. It's called "How to be an Asshole for Dummies" I'm sure holding up money for 9-11 First Responders will have its own chapter.
I will take, "All of the above."

Just curious, how much money have you personally donated to the first responders or are you just charitable with other people's money?

And here's another blasphemy: they (first responders in general) know the risks involved with the job beforehand and make too much money to begin with.

Probably already collecting pensions with perpetual insurance.... And no, that isn't necessarily directed towards the first responders of 9/11 but the piece(s) of shit who gun people down for trivialities and retire.

Miss with the 110k salary plus, plus benefits and pension sob stories.
 
"I will take, "All of the above."

Wonderful! Too bad Rand won't.

What's blasphemy to me is "What's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable" hypocritical attitude of Republicans when it comes to spending. and unfortunately Rand has absorbed it. One cannot take seriously has call for a "debate" when he won't put his cards for his state on the table.

Put it this way, if Rand if such a watchdog when it comes to gov't spending, why does all that aforementioned government spending list of such frivolous things even exist? Hmmm? Could it be the deal to keep the budget cutters away from Kentucky is a certain group of Congressmen from Bluegrass State look the other way when such appropriations are made?

Didn't you hear Rush Limbaugh the other day? Nobody in the GOP really gives a damn about spending and deficit (and the Constitution for that matter) and that includes its politicians and its voters (and apparently talk show hosts like Limbaugh) It was always a smokescreen. So is Rand pretending now? Hmmm? And for 9-11 first responders? He's nuts!
 
Put it this way, if Rand if such a watchdog when it comes to gov't spending, why does all that aforementioned government spending list of such frivolous things even exist? Hmmm? Could it be the deal to keep the budget cutters away from Kentucky is a certain group of Congressmen from Bluegrass State look the other way when such appropriations are made?

The Senate Majority Leader is the Senior Senator from KY. Randal has almost no pull by comparison, holding up these bills and forcing votes on good amendments he submits is about the extent of his powers.
 
"I will take, "All of the above."

Wonderful! Too bad Rand won't.
Rand Paul is consistent.

Your state pays 'X' in taxes and lobbying the federal government for representation with regards to those monies, or at the least that they are spent within the state they arguably came from is not the same as an additional spending bill where the entire country is going to perpetually pay first responders of a given area for a given tragedy.

We can say what they did is heroic and we can say that gratitude ought be given due to their heroism.

It is not the government's place to take money from some to give to another, no matter the cause.

What makes the first responder's tragedy any less than the countless others who have passed in their heroic efforts?

What's blasphemy to me is "What's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable" hypocritical attitude of Republicans when it comes to spending. and unfortunately Rand has absorbed it. One cannot take seriously has call for a "debate" when he won't put his cards for his state on the table.
Let's take Rand Paul off of the table.

I pay taxes in my state.

Should I not expect my senators to try and direct an equal amount of money back to my state, or me, God willing?

Ought that be the way it is? No. But my money is already gone. The least they can do is try to fix the issues within the state or locality that is paying the taxes.

Put it this way, if Rand if such a watchdog when it comes to gov't spending, why does all that aforementioned government spending list of such frivolous things even exist?
Because they have too much money.

Four trillion dollars is not something the mind recognizes.

Rand Paul is trying to curtail spending.

Hmmm? Could it be the deal to keep the budget cutters away from Kentucky is a certain group of Congressmen from Bluegrass State look the other way when such appropriations are made?
I suppose.

Underhanded insinuations can be made both ways as well.

That is to say, what is your dog in this pony show.

Do you see how easy that was?

Didn't you hear Rush Limbaugh the other day?
No, fortunately I did not.

Nobody in the GOP really gives a damn about spending and deficit (and the Constitution for that matter) and that includes its politicians and its voters (and apparently talk show hosts like Limbaugh) It was always a smokescreen. So is Rand pretending now? Hmmm? And for 9-11 first responders? He's nuts!
If you want to argue that he ought be calling ought trillion dollar plus deficits more aggressively and directly confront the president for as much... sure. I would somewhat be in agreement, depending.

He is consistent on this. If they want to pay the first responders:

1: Those so vocally disgusted by the lack of funds can get the ball rolling and donate or,

2: Cut the money from somewhere else that is not as important

But he is the asshole for suggesting that maybe government lives within its means and quits burdening further generations with debt to finance welfare programs of today.

I'll be honest: It seems pretty popular. Maybe if Jon Stewart got the ball rolling with a couple episode donation and promotional campaign we would be well on our way.

Or if they didn't give as much money to Saudi Arabia (the ones where the majority of hijackers came from, who were protected, who barbarically rule and who were one of the causes of 9/11, maybe they could afford it (if anyone knew how much it would end up costing)?



As an aside: What level of tragedy is required before forcefully taking from the taxpayer to compensate the victim(s)?

They say 410 billion dollars was given to charity last year. I at first wonder how charitable one would be if their wages were not siphoned but that is besides the point. Of the 410 billion dollars, could we, as a society, not find a way to compensate the brave?

And this ignores the fact that they were paid quite handsomely beforehand, and knew the risks of the job, and some claims have arguable circumstances (how do you prove one's cancer is from responding to ground zero)?

Where is the bill to garnish Dick Cheney and where is Jon Stewart's charity?
 
"I will take, "All of the above."

Wonderful! Too bad Rand won't.

What's blasphemy to me is "What's mine is mine and what's yours is negotiable" hypocritical attitude of Republicans when it comes to spending. and unfortunately Rand has absorbed it. One cannot take seriously has call for a "debate" when he won't put his cards for his state on the table.

Put it this way, if Rand if such a watchdog when it comes to gov't spending, why does all that aforementioned government spending list of such frivolous things even exist? Hmmm? Could it be the deal to keep the budget cutters away from Kentucky is a certain group of Congressmen from Bluegrass State look the other way when such appropriations are made?

Didn't you hear Rush Limbaugh the other day? Nobody in the GOP really gives a damn about spending and deficit (and the Constitution for that matter) and that includes its politicians and its voters (and apparently talk show hosts like Limbaugh) It was always a smokescreen. So is Rand pretending now? Hmmm? And for 9-11 first responders? He's nuts!
iu
 
Some background. The PAYGO provision discussed below. Rand was consistent in saying he requested spending cuts along with the tax cuts and opposed the waiver for the spending cuts.

My opinion -- that others may disagree with -- is that it's okay (but not ideal) to vote for a tax cut without a spending cut.

The spending bill immediately after the tax law changes was stripped of the PAYGO provision and this is how Rand Paul (and Mike Lee) voted:

"Only eight of 51 Senate Republicans voted against waiving budgetary discipline for the spending bill, and only two of those, Kentucky’s Rand Paul and Utah’s Mike Lee, voted against the bill’s final passage. Likewise, only 16 Republicans voted against the spending bill in the House, and several of those voted no not because the bill cancelled automatic spending reductions, but because the bill didn’t spend enough on federal defense programs."

https://thefederalist.com/2018/01/0...oves-parties-still-addicted-federal-spending/
 
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"It is not the government's place to take money from some to give to another, no matter the cause."

Goody! Let's privatize the TVA because I shouldn't have to pay to subsidize the cheap power given to people in Kentucky.

But that's not an argument you're going to hear Rand Paul make, ever.

So if Rand figures it's in the nation's interest to pay for the TVA, why does he not think it in the interest of the nation to help out persons who aided their country in a time of national emergency? Hmmm?

Again, hypocrisy! Typical of so many Republicans and so-called conservatives and libertarians. He sees no conflict taking what he sees as a benefit for his home state but to others elsewhere, to him its welfare! Sorry I'm not impressed with his logic that only Republican constituencies should benefit from Federal funding. To him, that makes spending okay!
 
So. although Rand is correct in sticking to fiscal responsible principles.. this issue is tough.

There's nothing tough about it. Set up a voluntary charity. But that's probably redundant, because no doubt several already exist.

And then if you feel like not enough of your money is being taken from you and redistributed to help 9/11 victims in whatever way, then just donate more.

This requires zero government spending.
 
It's an emotional issue, and I would put the blame on Jon—not Rand—for playing on it.

Never in the history of the USA had so many firefighters died in one incident. The fund is a great way for people to feel like they're doing something for those firefighters and their families without actually personally doing something.

Consider:

84 firefighters died in 2018 alone in separate incidents. 27 so far in 2019. There's no federal fund for them. The volunteer fire department in the neighboring county south of mine had a volunteer on scene be struck by a metal coupling that came apart on a charged hose line. He died of a brain injury. No federal funding. What exactly makes 9/11 special? I know what the answer is, but then if I think about it, I don't. There's no reason, other than the emotional charges related to that one event.

Did you know that one of the requirements for accepting aid from the fund is that you must agree not to sue the airline industries? That puts a damper on the charity part, when you consider that it's a form of removing liability. Did the gov't establish the fund to help the firefighters? Or protect the airlines?
 
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It's not just firefighters dying from. the toxins. It's police, NYC residents, many workers who handled debris or bodies in multiple sites away from WTC.

The towers had asbestos sprayed all over & IMO were intentionally demolished..

Not only did our GOV use 911 to invade & military bases occupy Afghanistan & Iraq..Bush admin changed air quality EPA numbers to "get everyone back to work"

This GOV lie is well documented & proved.

Lot going on here .. repeating " less GOV always & "charity should take care of it" seems trite to say the least to me.
 
Lot going on here .. repeating " less GOV always & "charity should take care of it" seems trite to say the least to me.

But it's the correct answer, isn't it?

If you're not donating enough, then by all means donate more. Why go to the government and complain that they're not using violence to force you to do what you're choosing not to do?
 
But it's the correct answer, isn't it?

NO. it's not. IMO

Got to ask Are you a robot or human?
 
But it's the correct answer, isn't it?

NO. it's not. IMO

Got to ask Are you a robot or human?

How much more do you believe you should donate to them? And whatever that number is, what's stopping you?

If you think you should give them another $100, then why would you rather have the federal government threaten you with violence to make you give it $1,000 just so that a tenth of that would end up where you wanted to donate it on your own in the first place?

Is the answer because you're really not worried about you not donating enough, but what you really want is to control other people's money and not your own?

I don't answer personal questions here.
 
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