Sen. Lieberman says force may be needed in Iran

[The Patriot]

"Twelver Shī‘a believe that al-Māhdī was born in 869 and did not die but rather was hidden by God (this is referred to as the Occultation) and will later emerge with Jesus in order to fulfill their mission of bringing peace and justice to the world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Mahdi

I knew this. And if this was the case, and really was true, I would fight against Jesus and the 12th Imam.

 

[Old Ducker]

I knew this. And if this was the case, and really was true, I would fight against Jesus and the 12th Imam.

Prove that it isn't.

 

[The Patriot]

Prove that it isn't.

Prove what isn't? In fact, God and his forces could use a good ass kicking if they are real.

 

[coastie]

The economy is far better now than under Saddam, so your argument that economic prosperity outweighs political oppression, and that the Iraqis were better off doesn't even fit here. In 2000, they had a GDP of 12 billion. By 2009, the GDP reached 112 billion, and the GDP through free market reforms and privatization was growing at a rate of 4.3%.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/iz.html#Econ

I didn't make an argument about their "economic prosperity". I was saying that there's no way they're happier living in a war and their infrastructure destroyed, their women being raped, their children and fathers dying, etc.

So you don't think that Iraqis and Afghans think their nation is destroyed?

Pay attention there, slick. I said the exact opposite of what you just did. but you already knew that.

Which is it, do they like the democracy or do they think their nation was destroyed? You can't have it both ways.

What? They cant realize they have a destroyed nation and "enjoy" democracy? Why/how is that not possible(in the real world, not your warped mind)?

But you just said it again, you claim someone is destroying Iraq, at the beginning of your post, you berated me for claiming you said America destroys nations, when that is in fact what you claimed, and it is, inaccurate.

Why would I berate you on something I've been saying all along? I've said that our government does these things this entire thread. Last time i checked, war destroys countries....

They don't live in fear of their own elected government, that is utter nonsense.

I never said they did. I implied that they were under the same thing you described under Saddam-only it's our government doing it. Does reading comprehension just completely escape you??? Never mind, you've already more than shown that.

I agree, you father wasn't bombing anyone in 1992, as bombing missions didn't start till 94'. But you certainly made suggestive statements to the contrary like saying that Nixon lied about being in Cambodia and that if your father told me he did bomb I would call him a liar....

Yet another pathetic spin attempt. Again, you replace words to suit your argument. As I said before, he was in a medical detachment. And I said that if he did tell you he was there prior to '94, you'd call him a liar. You added the bombing part.

You have no substance to your argument whatsoever, which is why you're constantly spinning people's words into something they didn't say....truly pathetic.

 

[Old Ducker]

Prove what isn't? In fact, God and his forces could use a good ass kicking if they are real.

I don't know what this means. You claim Ahmedinejad wants to force a war to bring about the triumph of Islam, saying "its well documented." I provided documentary evidence to the contrary. Where's yours?

 

[The Patriot]

I don't know what this means. You claim Ahmedinejad wants to force a war to bring about the triumph of Islam, saying "its well documented." I provided documentary evidence to the contrary. Where's yours?

I am just as confused as you are, don't you want to kick the 12th Imam's ass and Jesus with me? You didn't provide contrary evidence, you just talked about the Book of Revelations. See my videos for Ahmedenijad talking about the return of the 12th Imam.

 

[YumYum]

Yes, they do, are you trying to legitimize or minimize Ahmedenijad's violent rhetoric and apocalyptic visions because of the book of Revelations. If a Fundamentalist Christian Regime were calling for the same things, sponsored terrorists and repressed their people, I would be speaking out as well. Thankfully, we only have to deal with Christians domestically and not in a violent sense, in their attempts to restrict a woman's right to chose, to deny homosexual equal protection of law, to defend the actions of the child molesting Catholic Church, and to teach creation myths in schools.

Christians invaded Iraq, and using the excuse "collateral damage", killed one million Iraqi men, women and children.

Christians have killed and do kill with the same enthusiasm as fanatical Jews and Muslims.

I have worried at times about Iran having a bomb, but this board has helped me not to fear Iran.

 

[The Patriot]

I didn't make an argument about their "economic prosperity". I was saying that there's no way they're happier living in a war and their infrastructure destroyed, their women being raped, their children and fathers dying, etc.




Pay attention there, slick. I said the exact opposite of what you just did. but you already knew that.



What? They cant realize they have a destroyed nation and "enjoy" democracy? Why/how is that not possible(in the real world, not your warped mind)?



Why would I berate you on something I've been saying all along? I've said that our government does these things this entire thread. Last time i checked, war destroys countries....



I never said they did. I implied that they were under the same thing you described under Saddam-only it's our government doing it. Does reading comprehension just completely escape you??? Never mind, you've already more than shown that.



Yet another pathetic spin attempt. Again, you replace words to suit your argument. As I said before, he was in a medical detachment. And I said that if he did tell you he was there prior to '94, you'd call him a liar. You added the bombing part.

You have no substance to your argument whatsoever, which is why you're constantly spinning people's words into something they didn't say....truly pathetic.

What are you talking about? They have a much stronger infrastructure and economy as I showed before. They are much happier now, they are better off financially and socially than before, when rape and murder was the policy of the Hussein dictatorship.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uday_Hussein#Allegations_of_crimes_or_misconduct
http://www.spiritus-temporis.com/uday-hussein/
http://www.moreorless.au.com/killers/hussein.html

What did you say? What is your position. Did we destroy their nations or not? It is a simple question.

Which is it, do they like democracy or do they think their country has been destroyed. You cannot have it both ways, either they like there new democratically elected government or they dislike it and think their nation has been "destroyed"

That is a broad brushed statement, to say all war destroys countries. We liberated Iraq from tyranny, we didn't colonize or kill them(which are qualifiers for destruction), though Saddam did kill his own people.

The United States doesn't run Iraq, and Maliki doesn't rape or politically suppress his own people like Saddam does.

I didn't add the bombing part in relation to your father. You initially said we were in Bosnia in 1992, I said we weren't, and that NATO didn't start bombing campaigns until 1994, than you started whining and talking about how your didn't see your father and talked about Cambodia, and now we are where we are.

 

[The Patriot]

Christians invaded Iraq, and using the excuse "collateral damage", killed one million Iraqi men, women and children.

Christians have killed and do kill with the same enthusiasm as fanatical Jews and Muslims.

I have worried at times about Iran having a bomb, but this board has helped me not to fear Iran.

Christians didn't invade Iraq, Americans, British, and other coalition forces(Georgians, Poles etc) liberated Iraq. My cousin wasn't a Christian, and he was in Iraq. And we didn't set up a Christian government, but a Secular Democracy with protections for all religions.

Around 105,000 have died, you are using inflated numbers. Many of those killed by Baathists and Islamic Radicals.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

 

[YumYum]

Christians didn't invade Iraq, Americans, British, and other coalition forces(Georgians, Poles etc) liberated Iraq. My cousin wasn't a Christian, and he was in Iraq. And we didn't set up a Christian government, but a Secular Democracy with protections for all religions.

Around 105,000 have died, you are using inflated numbers. Many of those killed by Baathists and Islamic Radicals.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

We are a Christian nation that was founded on Christian principles whose majority of founding fathers happened to be Christian. Right? Hasn't that been the strong argument here? And as a Christian nation under G-d, who shed His light on thee, had an Evangelical president named George W. Bush, send in this Christian nation's military in a preemptive strike against a people who had done nothing against this Christian nation, which was founded on Christian principles. Almost every every politician who sits in Congress claims to worship in one way or another the Judeo-Christian G-d, and with a prayer said to the Christian G-d before the Congressional assembly began, voted to attack innocent men, women and children in Iraq. All because of the lies told by a Christian president, George W. Bush, who believed, according to Richard A. Clark, that he was doing G-d's work. So yes, we, as a Christian nation founded on Christian principles did invade Iraq.

As far as your claim that the figure of million Iraqis have been murdered is not correct, I think the figure of one hundred thousand killed is incorrect. The one hundred thousand figure was initially given to us by a Christian president, George W. Bush, who is a proven congenital liar. And as a Christian president of a Christian nation founded on Christian principles, he sent our Christian and non-Christian soldiers into Iraq to murder innocent men, women and children, hoping, according Bob Woodward, to bring on Armageddon and the return of Jesus.

 

[pcosmar]

Prove what isn't? In fact, God and his forces could use a good ass kicking if they are real.

 

[lester1/2jr]

And we didn't set up a Christian government, but a Secular Democracy with protections for all religions.

when was this. the government that is there now is islamic and the christians have been driven out of the country in great numbers

They have a much stronger infrastructure and economy as I showed before. They are much happier now, they are better off financially and socially than before, when rape and murder was the policy of the Hussein dictatorship.

yeah look at these miserable people, nothing like now

YouTube - Iraq street scenes (Before the invasion)

I have many Persian friends, who had to flee because of the Islamic Revolution, and support my position, as all rational people do

lol what are there names?

 

[constituent]

Christians didn't invade Iraq, Americans, British, and other coalition forces(Georgians, Poles etc) liberated Iraq.

Liberate Iraq did "we?" lol.

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

The Fundamentalist Regime involves us when they call for our destruction, not the other way around.
YouTube - "Death to America" chants in Iran

OOOOOOOHHHHH HOW SCARY!!!!! People chanting?!!! TIME FOR A PREEMPTIVE STRIKE!!!

Let's see....
-We have overthrown a democratically elected Iranian government, replacing it with a dictator
-We have supplied arms to their main enemy, Saddam
-Israel continually threatens them (MUCH MUCH more than the other way around)
-And now we have invaded and occupied both of their bordering countries. Wouldn't YOU feel slightly worried? Wouldn't YOU want a nuke in that scenario?

Even the Iranian "opposition" and the pro-American urban population desire nuclear technology. It's a matter of national pride.


And I repeat: do you share any of Ron Paul's views on foreign policy? If not...what are you doing here?

 

[John Taylor]

Lieberman is such a snake.

 

[The Patriot]

We are a Christian nation that was founded on Christian principles whose majority of founding fathers happened to be Christian. Right? Hasn't that been the strong argument here? And as a Christian nation under G-d, who shed His light on thee, had an Evangelical president named George W. Bush, send in this Christian nation's military in a preemptive strike against a people who had done nothing against this Christian nation, which was founded on Christian principles. Almost every every politician who sits in Congress claims to worship in one way or another the Judeo-Christian G-d, and with a prayer said to the Christian G-d before the Congressional assembly began, voted to attack innocent men, women and children in Iraq. All because of the lies told by a Christian president, George W. Bush, who believed, according to Richard A. Clark, that he was doing G-d's work. So yes, we, as a Christian nation founded on Christian principles did invade Iraq.

As far as your claim that the figure of million Iraqis have been murdered is not correct, I think the figure of one hundred thousand killed is incorrect. The one hundred thousand figure was initially given to us by a Christian president, George W. Bush, who is a proven congenital liar. And as a Christian president of a Christian nation founded on Christian principles, he sent our Christian and non-Christian soldiers into Iraq to murder innocent men, women and children, hoping, according Bob Woodward, to bring on Armageddon and the return of Jesus.

No, we are secular nation founded on the principles of religious freedom and separation of church and state as enshrined in the Constitution. Are values are derived from the Enlightenment and are main founding fathers were deists who rejected organized religion.
" Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."
http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/treaty_tripoli.html

No, the 105,000 is the most accurate and reliable number, as it counts all recorded deaths by violence, no biased estimates to muddy up the facts on the ground.
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/about/

And if Bob Woodward said that, than he is an ignorant buffoon, because Iraq is a free secular democracy with protections for all faiths rid off autocratic and genocidal tyranny. No one has been forced to convert to Christianity. And bush has never talked about liberating Iraq in order to bring on the apocalypse. Find me such a quote from Bush.

 

[The Patriot]

when was this. the government that is there now is islamic and the christians have been driven out of the country in great numbers



yeah look at these miserable people, nothing like now

YouTube - Iraq street scenes (Before the invasion)




lol what are there names?

No, the government is not Islamic, it is democratic secular. There is no sharia law in Iraq, and the government has not driven Christians out of the country, show me proof of such a thing. Violence against religious minorities is the result of anti-democratic islamist forces, who you guys call the "resistance".
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/4979ad5b81fa6233eb4ad77a3e2c21b7.htm

Why would I give there names out on a website where there are some psychotics like you? You could stalk them, and it isn't my right to hand over there names.

And I could show you some pictures of people happy in Nazi Germany, it doesn't mean the people were happy with their government.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

No, the government is not Islamic, it is democratic secular. There is no sharia law in Iraq, and the government has not driven Christians out of the country, show me proof of such a thing. Violence against religious minorities is the result of anti-democratic islamist forces, who you guys call the "resistance".
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/IRIN/4979ad5b81fa6233eb4ad77a3e2c21b7.htm

Why would I give there names out on a website where there are some psychotics like you? You could stalk them, and it isn't my right to hand over there names.

And I could show you some pictures of people happy in Nazi Germany, it doesn't mean the people were happy with their government.

This is the first sensible thing I've seen you write.

 

[lester1/2jr]

the iraqi government is islamic. it is not secular from wiki

The federal government of Iraq is defined under the current Constitution as an Islamic,[1] democratic, federal parliamentary republic.

any "protections" for christians are moot as they have largely been driven from Iraq by the millions along with most of the educated class and anyone with any sense. They were fine under Saddam

And I could show you some pictures of people happy in Nazi Germany, it doesn't mean the people were happy with their government.

right, but you were saying that people were miserable under saddam. it will be decades till they get back to the level of "misery" seen in the video I posted.

even WITH the cruel sanctions we had in place.

 

[The Patriot]

the iraqi government is islamic. it is not secular from wiki



any "protections" for christians are moot as they have largely been driven from Iraq by the millions along with most of the educated class and anyone with any sense. They were fine under Saddam



right, but you were saying that people were miserable under saddam. it will be decades till they get back to the level of "misery" seen in the video I posted.

even WITH the cruel sanctions we had in place.

How is it Islamic, cite sharia style laws, give me an example of Islamic law in Iraq, other than a wikipedia article which claims the government is Islamic

They are not moot, they are only so in your mind. But you claimed they have an Islamic Government, and have yet to provide any evidence to back up that claim.

And there are many educated people, particularly in positions of power, who were exiled by Saddam, and returned after the liberation. Two party leaders come to mind, Nouri Al Maliki and Ayad Allawi.

And I never used the word "miserable". what I have consistently and forthrightly said is that they are no long economically and politically repressed as they were under Saddam, they don't live in fear of their government like they used to. And as I said before, I can post vids of happy people in North Korea, it doesn't mean they have a good life, and a life that wouldn't be dramatically improved by democratic liberation and market economics.

And these people are just as happy, after the invasion.
YouTube - Nightlife in Baghdad الØ*ياة الليليه ببغداد

Here are Iraqis celebrating the death of Saddam, see I can provide happy videos
YouTube - Iraqis Celebrate

Iraqis celebrating the day after the Baathist Regime Fell.
YouTube - Baghdad, 1st Day Without Saddam