Sen. Lieberman says force may be needed in Iran

[constituent]

Because we should defend our allies

Wait, didn't Israel say they have X number of nukes and if they go down they're taking everyone with them?

Some ally.

and stand against those who wish to destroy nations and violently drive people from their countries.

You mean like Isreal? Look, I'm no fan, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should start dropping bombs on Tel Aviv.

 

[The Patriot]

Wait, didn't Israel say they have X number of nukes and if they go down they're taking everyone with them?

Some ally.



You mean like Isreal? Look, I'm no fan, but that doesn't necessarily mean we should start dropping bombs on Tel Aviv.

No. They never said that, as far as I know, could you provide a link for such a provocative and outrageous claim?

Yes, I mean Israel, we should stand against the Fundamentalist Regime of Iran in their calls for the destruction of Israel. what do you think I meant?

 

[constituent]

Yes, I mean Israel

Why should we go after Israel?

Just because they do some bad things, including all of those items you mentioned and have nuclear weapons that fly in face of the IAEA, doesn't justify any sort of attack.

Oh wait, you meant we should attack Iran for those things. Well, if any of those mentioned actions ("stand[ing] against those who wish to destroy nations and violently driv[ing] people from their countries") are grounds for attack, why shouldn't we take the same approach to dealing with Israel that you're suggesting we take with Iran?

 

[coastie]

So, now you are falling back on that position? Ok, well you are still wrong. No, we did not destroy their nations, we ousted terrorist sponsoring governments and helped install democratically elected governments, which allow for rights for women, and religious and ethnic minorities(though Iraq is in better shape than Afghanistan, as it is more secular and has very liberal laws in regards to free speech and a free press). A destroyed nation would be a conquered nation where people are governed by the conquerers and subsequently eliminated if they do not assimilate to the will of the conquerer.

He wasn't in Bosnia fighting. He may have been on a ship or something, but NATO didn't start bombing runs until 1994. Unless you have proof to the contrary, you have no feet to stand on here. If it is really true, and you have verifiable proof, you and him should publish a book on how america was conducting bombing runs prior to 1994 independent of NATO in total secrecy. It would be a good read and stir up a controversy. But I doubt he ever said he did such a thing.

Once again you're putting words into my mouth...But that's what people do when THEY have no ground to stand on, you have to manipulate it into what you want. Without the manipulation, you have nothing.

1. When did I say NATO was doing bombing runs prior to '94?

2. Of course I dont have "verifiable proof" that my dad was over there, other than his word. Don't flatter yourself into thinking myself-or my dad-have to prove anything to you. It wouldn't matter, as you'd just ignore it anyway, or call it fake or whatever, who knows.

3. I'm sure POSITIVE the people of Iraq and Afghanistan would disagree with you that their countries aren't destroyed. I guess the MILLIONS of refugees from these conflicts (over half in the WORLD from Afghanistan) just felt like one, big spontaneous vacation...

Get back to your desk, troll. AIPAC is wondering why you're losing every thread you start here.

 

[The Patriot]

Why? So those dirty Iranians get some nukes...end of the world? Believe it or not the Iranians are rational actors, as shown by their behavior. Ahmadinejad is a shrewd politician, and the mullahs in charge there aren't looking to commit mass national suicide and lose ALL of their power by throwing nukes around.

They want them for the same reason all other nations do - regional security. They will be reasonably safe from Israeli/Saudi aggression is they possess nuclear weaponry

The Iranians are a clean people, if you are trying to imply I dislike Iranians, that is absurd. I have many Persian friends, who had to flee because of the Islamic Revolution, and support my position, as all rational people do. Unfortunately there is a breed of mentally unstable people on this forum who don't care if this regime gets a nuclear weapon, despite their violent rhetoric and material and financial support for terrorism.

Yes, yes they are, Ahmedenijad wants to draw the west into a war by attacking us or our allies to bring back the 12th imam and draw us into the end times where the "forces of Islam" will triumph and rule the world. This is all well documented.

 

[coastie]

The Iranians are a clean people, if you are trying to imply I dislike Iranians, that is absurd. I have many Persian friends, who had to flee because of the Islamic Revolution, and support my position, as all rational people do. Unfortunately there is a breed of mentally unstable people on this forum who don't care if this regime gets a nuclear weapon, despite their violent rhetoric and material and financial support for terrorism.

Yes, yes they are, Ahmedenijad wants to draw the west into a war by attacking us or our allies to bring back the 12th imam and draw us into the end times where the "forces of Islam" will triumph and rule the world. This is all well documented.

You're the mentally unstable one....

Our country does all of that, and more. And it's different, how?

 

[The Patriot]

Once again you're putting words into my mouth...But that's what people do when THEY have no ground to stand on, you have to manipulate it into what you want. Without the manipulation, you have nothing.

1. When did I say NATO was doing bombing runs prior to '94?

2. Of course I dont have "verifiable proof" that my dad was over there, other than his word. Don't flatter yourself into thinking myself-or my dad-have to prove anything to you. It wouldn't matter, as you'd just ignore it anyway, or call it fake or whatever, who knows.

3. I'm sure POSITIVE the people of Iraq and Afghanistan would disagree with you that their countries aren't destroyed. I guess the MILLIONS of refugees from these conflicts (over half in the WORLD from Afghanistan) just felt like one, big spontaneous vacation...

Get back to your desk, troll. AIPAC is wondering why you're losing every thread you start here.

Ok, so you don't say America calls for or destroys nations, again. So your Dad says that he was attacking prior to NATO bombing campaigns? I just want to be clear. Like I said before, this would be illegal, and a major controversy, because no one to this date has said such a thing. That would be considered a monumental cover up. If this is true, you and our father owe it to the American people and those of the world to expose these actions, and you could make a lot of money in the process.

Yes, the Iraqis and Afghans are happy that they now have a democratically elected government as opposed to an autocratic one. Iraqis are happy that there is free speech, free press, rights for women, religious minorities, and free elections, they no longer have to live in fear of a tyrannical government that bullies and kills them.

I haven't lost a single thread here, you are being delusional, especially when you suggest Iraqis and Afghanis were happier under tyrannical dictatorships. That is an insult to their rationality.

 

[The Patriot]

You're the mentally unstable one....

Our country does all of that, and more. And it's different, how?

No we don't.

 

[YumYum]

Yes, yes they are, Ahmedenijad wants to draw the west into a war by attacking us or our allies to bring back the 12th imam and draw us into the end times where the "forces of Islam" will triumph and rule the world. This is all well documented.

Yeah, in the Book of Revelations

 

[AmericaFyeah92]

The Iranians are a clean people, if you are trying to imply I dislike Iranians, that is absurd. I have many Persian friends, who had to flee because of the Islamic Revolution, and support my position, as all rational people do. Unfortunately there is a breed of mentally unstable people on this forum who don't care if this regime gets a nuclear weapon, despite their violent rhetoric and material and financial support for terrorism.

Yes, yes they are, Ahmedenijad wants to draw the west into a war by attacking us or our allies to bring back the 12th imam and draw us into the end times where the "forces of Islam" will triumph and rule the world. This is all well documented.

The unstable people are Americans who are protected by two oceans and the world's largest military but quaker in fear at the thought of an Iranian nuclear weapon, and who wish to involve America in the regional religious disputes of other countries.

Just what do you have in common with Ron Paul that inspired you to come here?

 

[coastie]

I haven't lost a single thread here, you are being delusional, especially when you suggest Iraqis and Afghanis were happier under tyrannical dictatorships. That is an insult to their rationality.

Again, where did I suggest this? Where?

Ok, so you don't say America calls for or destroys nations, again. So your Dad says that he was attacking prior to NATO bombing campaigns? I just want to be clear.

There you go again. Please highlight when i said my dad was attacking anyone? You dont want to be clear, you want to paint a picture that isn't there.

Yes, the Iraqis and Afghans are happy that they now have a democratically elected government as opposed to an autocratic one. Iraqis are happy that there is free speech, free press, rights for women, religious minorities, and free elections, they no longer have to live in fear of a tyrannical government that bullies and kills them.

You obviously dont pay any attention to reality. The election corruption has been well documented in BOTH countries. Open a book sometime. Hell, your Fox News has even reported on this...

Yeah, I'm sure they're much happier with no jobs, no running water, scarce electricity, no infrastructure-all of which was there with Saddam in power. Things that weren't there? Bombs, civil war, depleted uranium ammunition, drone attacks, rapes and murders by our soldiers, mid night raids, executions, etc...

I'm not defending Saddam by any stretch of the imagination, although I'm sure you'll say that next, as well. The fact is that Iraq was a much better place by any standard, before the 6 years of war that OUR GOVERNMENT brought to them on bullshit intelligence.

they no longer have to live in fear of a tyrannical government that bullies and kills them.

Yep-they now live in fear of a tyrannical government that bullies, kills and destroys their country. Your hypocrisy is astounding.

 

[The Patriot]

Yeah, in the Book of Revelations

Ahmedenijad is a Christian? News to me at least.

YouTube - AHMADINEJAD SHIITE 12TH IMAM RUNS THE WORLD NOT ALLAH HQ

YouTube - Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the 12th Imam

 

[The Patriot]

The unstable people are Americans who are protected by two oceans and the world's largest military but quaker in fear at the thought of an Iranian nuclear weapon, and who wish to involve America in the regional religious disputes of other countries.

Just what do you have in common with Ron Paul that inspired you to come here?

The Fundamentalist Regime involves us when they call for our destruction, not the other way around.
YouTube - "Death to America" chants in Iran

 

[coastie]

Ahmedenijad is a Christian? News to me at least.

You must be a real hit with the ladies. you make shit up on the fly like no other, lol

 

[constituent]

The Iranians are a clean people

What's that supposed to mean?

Could you name off a few unclean nationalities for us?

Thanks.

 

[The Patriot]

Again, where did I suggest this? Where?



There you go again. Please highlight when i said my dad was attacking anyone? You dont want to be clear, you want to paint a picture that isn't there.




You obviously dont pay any attention to reality. The election corruption has been well documented in BOTH countries. Open a book sometime. Hell, your Fox News has even reported on this...

Yeah, I'm sure they're much happier with no jobs, no running water, scarce electricity, no infrastructure-all of which was there with Saddam in power. Things that weren't there? Bombs, civil war, depleted uranium ammunition, drone attacks, rapes and murders by our soldiers, mid night raids, executions, etc...

I'm not defending Saddam by any stretch of the imagination, although I'm sure you'll say that next, as well. The fact is that Iraq was a much better place by any standard, before the 6 years of war that OUR GOVERNMENT brought to them on bullshit intelligence.



Yep-they now live in fear of a tyrannical government that bullies, kills and destroys their country. Your hypocrisy is astounding.

So you don't think that Iraqis and Afghans think their nation is destroyed? Which is it, do they like the democracy or do they think their nation was destroyed? You can't have it both ways.

My Fox News? I don't even watch much TV News, Most of my TV time is devoted to sports. But if that is supposed to be some kind of insult, it is a poor one, considering that Glenn Beck, John Stossel, and Freedom Watch all air on Fox.

I agree, you father wasn't bombing anyone in 1992, as bombing missions didn't start till 94'. But you certainly made suggestive statements to the contrary like saying that Nixon lied about being in Cambodia and that if your father told me he did bomb I would call him a liar. But as long as you don't believe that, then we share no differences, it was merely you trying to start a fight for no reason.

The economy is far better now than under Saddam, so your argument that economic prosperity outweighs political oppression, and that the Iraqis were better off doesn't even fit here. In 2000, they had a GDP of 12 billion. By 2009, the GDP reached 112 billion, and the GDP through free market reforms and privatization was growing at a rate of 4.3%.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/iz.html#Econ

They don't live in fear of their own elected government, that is utter nonsense. Unfortunately, they still have to deal with violent radical extremists who are opposed to democracy and freedom. But death tolls are down from the last election and voter turnout is at a strong 62%. People will not be scared away by extremists.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/middle-east/3416061/36-killed-in-Iraq-election-violence

But you just said it again, you claim someone is destroying Iraq, at the beginning of your post, you berated me for claiming you said America destroys nations, when that is in fact what you claimed, and it is, inaccurate.

 

[The Patriot]

What's that supposed to mean?

Could you name off a few unclean nationalities for us?

Thanks.

What is that supposed to mean? You implied they are dirty, that is insulting, and not true. They have a rich history and are a sophisticated people. Though I doubt you know as many Persians as I do.

 

[YumYum]

Ahmedenijad is a Christian? News to me at least.

Christians teach the same thing: End Times. Even Jews are promised in the Hebrew Bible that they will inherit the world.

Clue for you: Two religions will annihilate each other, while a third steps back, watches and survives.

 

[The Patriot]

Christians teach the same thing: End Times. Even Jews are promised in the Hebrew Bible that they will inherit the world.

Clue for you: Two religions will annihilate each other, while a third steps back, watches and survives.

Yes, they do, are you trying to legitimize or minimize Ahmedenijad's violent rhetoric and apocalyptic visions because of the book of Revelations. If a Fundamentalist Christian Regime were calling for the same things, sponsored terrorists and repressed their people, I would be speaking out as well. Thankfully, we only have to deal with Christians domestically and not in a violent sense, in their attempts to restrict a woman's right to chose, to deny homosexual equal protection of law, to defend the actions of the child molesting Catholic Church, and to teach creation myths in schools.

 

[Old Ducker]

Yes, yes they are, Ahmedenijad wants to draw the west into a war by attacking us or our allies to bring back the 12th imam and draw us into the end times where the "forces of Islam" will triumph and rule the world. This is all well documented.

"Twelver Shī‘a believe that al-Māhdī was born in 869 and did not die but rather was hidden by God (this is referred to as the Occultation) and will later emerge with Jesus in order to fulfill their mission of bringing peace and justice to the world."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_al-Mahdi