Tastes like victory .
Secessionists formally launch quest for California's independence
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Anti Federalist
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Get ready for Calexit! Nigel Farage and the 'Bad Boys of Brexit' set their sights on splitting California in two
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Boys-Brexit-look-Calexit.html#ixzz4cX6fvPGo
Nigel Farage and Leave backer Arron Banks just returned from a trip to California
They helped raise $1million for a 'Calexit', which would split California in two
The appear to be pitting the eastern, more rural side of California against the western 'coastal elite' liberals in Los Angeles and San Francisco
The eastern part of California would more likely vote Republican, giving the party two more senators and electoral college votes for a 2020 election
The Western side of the state would likely continue to vote Democrat
The goal is to hold a referendum during the US midterm elections in 2018
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-Boys-Brexit-look-Calexit.html#ixzz4cX6fvPGo
Nigel Farage and Leave backer Arron Banks just returned from a trip to California
They helped raise $1million for a 'Calexit', which would split California in two
The appear to be pitting the eastern, more rural side of California against the western 'coastal elite' liberals in Los Angeles and San Francisco
The eastern part of California would more likely vote Republican, giving the party two more senators and electoral college votes for a 2020 election
The Western side of the state would likely continue to vote Democrat
The goal is to hold a referendum during the US midterm elections in 2018
Suzanimal
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seapilot
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Best scenario would be if California breaks up with the freedom loving half becoming its own state as the communist part becomes its own country. That could work. Otherwise the 60% democrat would vote to stop it breaking up into two states as they would not benefit.
Swordsmyth
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Or/Wash/Mass/NYC etc. Next Please.
Anti Federalist
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Breaking Up California an Idea That Won't Go Away, For Good Reason
http://reason.com/archives/2017/04/14/breaking-up-california-an-idea-that-wont
Californians would be better equipped to govern themselves fairly.
Steven Greenhut | April 14, 2017
Years ago, I was riding an Amtrak train from Virginia to New Jersey and was chatting with a couple from California, who were stunned at how rapidly the train went from one state to another. One can drive from southern Maine to North Carolina and pass through a dozen states, plus the District of Columbia, in roughly the same distance as going from San Diego to Crescent City, California.
Consider also that California's approximately 39 million population equals the total combined population of the nation's 22 smallest states. I can regale you with geographic trivia, but the closer you look, the harder it is to fathom why talks of breaking up California are not taken more seriously. California is too large in size and population to be governed fairly.
Note the word "fairly." There's plenty of debate about whether California is governed properly. I think not, but I cover the state Capitol and listen closely to the zaniness. I own a historic home that would have been flushed down the Feather River like detritus circling a toilet bowl, had the Oroville emergency spillway collapsed. California's leaders lavish public employees with benefits and build silly bullet trains, yet can't maintain basic infrastructure. And then they strong-arm us into raising taxes, yet again.
But, ultimately, the "properly" question is a matter of political philosophy. Most liberal Democrats I know are happy with the way California is managed, and with the priorities that emanate from Sacramento. And why not? They control every state constitutional office and have supermajorities in the legislature. That's where fairness comes in. People who live outside the metropolitan areas are always overruled in the Capitol. They have no effective representation, no way to govern according to local values.
In late March, two leaders of the Brexit movement—the successful, underdog referendum to extricate the United Kingdom from the European Union—were in Huntington Beach to receive an award from the American Association of Political Consultants. While there, they touted the latest plan to chop up California into two or more independent states. This is Version 2.0 of Silicon Valley entrepreneur Tim Draper's previous plan to create "Six Californias."
I've read dismissive and even mocking media coverage of Draper's idea. It's ridiculous, some say, even though there have been dozens of efforts to break up California since the beginning of the state. The eastern borders were largely arbitrary—and designed basically by committee at a constitutional convention.
But the imprimatur of two Brexit ringleaders, party leader Nigel Farage and financier Arron Banks, has put the issue back in the news, given that their British effort was once deemed too silly to contemplate. They beat the odds, so why can't we? While in Orange County, they met with former Orange County Republican Party Chairman Scott Baugh, who has said the breakup idea would improve democratic representation. He's right. They were well-received when they spoke to local groups about Brexit and the possibility of partitioning California.
There have been myriad ideas to address our representation problem. I've written occasionally about San Diego-area businessman John Cox and his efforts to qualify a statewide initiative that would vastly expand the size of the Legislature. It sounds unwieldy to elect 8,000 Assembly members, which is why his Citizen Legislature plan still needs revamping. But the general idea makes sense.
In California, we have one Assembly member for every 483,000 residents. That's the worst ratio in the country. In New Hampshire, which has the best ratio, there are approximately 3,200 residents for every member of the statehouse. What are your chances of influencing or even reaching your legislator—or even his or her staffers—in California?
In a state as big as ours, only the big guys—the political parties, labor unions and other special interests—matter. Breaking up one mega-state into multiple reasonably sized states, where people with like-minded interests can better govern themselves, is a great idea that gives voters more power. If that won't happen, then we at least need more representative districts.
I carefully analyzed the Six Californias proposal, and found it would have created a competitive situation in the three more conservative states. The liberal states around Los Angeles, San Jose and Sacramento would have remained liberal bastions, but at least officials would be closer to home and more accountable.
I dismiss the "Calexit" idea, however, because it would make California its own nation. I can't imagine living without the protections of the U.S. Constitution (or what's left of it). It won't happen. Plus, it's reportedly advocated by a man with Russian ties.
But there's no reason we can't give new boundaries to old states. If Rhode Island—not much larger than Orange County—can have two senators and a Capitol, why can't there be several states formerly known as California? Thanks to Farage, Banks, Draper and Baugh for helping us revisit a vital question.
http://reason.com/archives/2017/04/14/breaking-up-california-an-idea-that-wont
Californians would be better equipped to govern themselves fairly.
Steven Greenhut | April 14, 2017
Years ago, I was riding an Amtrak train from Virginia to New Jersey and was chatting with a couple from California, who were stunned at how rapidly the train went from one state to another. One can drive from southern Maine to North Carolina and pass through a dozen states, plus the District of Columbia, in roughly the same distance as going from San Diego to Crescent City, California.
Consider also that California's approximately 39 million population equals the total combined population of the nation's 22 smallest states. I can regale you with geographic trivia, but the closer you look, the harder it is to fathom why talks of breaking up California are not taken more seriously. California is too large in size and population to be governed fairly.
Note the word "fairly." There's plenty of debate about whether California is governed properly. I think not, but I cover the state Capitol and listen closely to the zaniness. I own a historic home that would have been flushed down the Feather River like detritus circling a toilet bowl, had the Oroville emergency spillway collapsed. California's leaders lavish public employees with benefits and build silly bullet trains, yet can't maintain basic infrastructure. And then they strong-arm us into raising taxes, yet again.
But, ultimately, the "properly" question is a matter of political philosophy. Most liberal Democrats I know are happy with the way California is managed, and with the priorities that emanate from Sacramento. And why not? They control every state constitutional office and have supermajorities in the legislature. That's where fairness comes in. People who live outside the metropolitan areas are always overruled in the Capitol. They have no effective representation, no way to govern according to local values.
In late March, two leaders of the Brexit movement—the successful, underdog referendum to extricate the United Kingdom from the European Union—were in Huntington Beach to receive an award from the American Association of Political Consultants. While there, they touted the latest plan to chop up California into two or more independent states. This is Version 2.0 of Silicon Valley entrepreneur Tim Draper's previous plan to create "Six Californias."
I've read dismissive and even mocking media coverage of Draper's idea. It's ridiculous, some say, even though there have been dozens of efforts to break up California since the beginning of the state. The eastern borders were largely arbitrary—and designed basically by committee at a constitutional convention.
But the imprimatur of two Brexit ringleaders, party leader Nigel Farage and financier Arron Banks, has put the issue back in the news, given that their British effort was once deemed too silly to contemplate. They beat the odds, so why can't we? While in Orange County, they met with former Orange County Republican Party Chairman Scott Baugh, who has said the breakup idea would improve democratic representation. He's right. They were well-received when they spoke to local groups about Brexit and the possibility of partitioning California.
There have been myriad ideas to address our representation problem. I've written occasionally about San Diego-area businessman John Cox and his efforts to qualify a statewide initiative that would vastly expand the size of the Legislature. It sounds unwieldy to elect 8,000 Assembly members, which is why his Citizen Legislature plan still needs revamping. But the general idea makes sense.
In California, we have one Assembly member for every 483,000 residents. That's the worst ratio in the country. In New Hampshire, which has the best ratio, there are approximately 3,200 residents for every member of the statehouse. What are your chances of influencing or even reaching your legislator—or even his or her staffers—in California?
In a state as big as ours, only the big guys—the political parties, labor unions and other special interests—matter. Breaking up one mega-state into multiple reasonably sized states, where people with like-minded interests can better govern themselves, is a great idea that gives voters more power. If that won't happen, then we at least need more representative districts.
I carefully analyzed the Six Californias proposal, and found it would have created a competitive situation in the three more conservative states. The liberal states around Los Angeles, San Jose and Sacramento would have remained liberal bastions, but at least officials would be closer to home and more accountable.
I dismiss the "Calexit" idea, however, because it would make California its own nation. I can't imagine living without the protections of the U.S. Constitution (or what's left of it). It won't happen. Plus, it's reportedly advocated by a man with Russian ties.
But there's no reason we can't give new boundaries to old states. If Rhode Island—not much larger than Orange County—can have two senators and a Capitol, why can't there be several states formerly known as California? Thanks to Farage, Banks, Draper and Baugh for helping us revisit a vital question.
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And this goes here ...
Is America Too Big?
Is America too big for democracy? Too big for its traditional republican form? What does it mean if the answer is yes? This video series proposes that the source of our biggest social and political problems is our SIZE. Like the, obese, 600 pound man who experiences heart failure, diabetes, and dozens of other ailments, so too does America, only its diseases go by the names Debt, War, Entitlements, Gridlock, and Corruption. Our problems cannot be fixed through any change in ideology or bi-partisan agreement in Congress, because those are not the root of our problems. The source is our size. As America's population increases, the level of representation and control each voter has must inexorably decrease. As power centralizes in a federal government, literally out of the hands of its citizens, conflicts and problems mount. What can be done? Please watch and join the conversation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCNd7h0fsdE
This applies to the "state" level every bit as much as it does to the "national" level.
LOL.
And by the way, how would there even have been a US Constitution in the first place if Americans in 1776 had felt the same way about living without the "protections" of the British Crown/Parliament?
This is why we can't have nice things - even people who understand that the status quo is badly broken still insist on indulging in nostalgic sentiment and settling for "what's left of it."
Well ... so much for "When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them ..."
It probably won't - not as long as people continue to reflexively latch onto arguments against the idea that are as lousy as the ones presented here (because they apparently can't come up with anything better).
LMAO. So what?
It's advocated by a lot of other people, too - and has been since well before this "Russian ties"
rolleyes guy made the scene.And it will continue to be advocated by other people long after this "Russian ties"
rolleyes guy blows the scene ...
Last edited:
TheCount
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Calexit founder quits the movement, decides he's just going to continue to live in Russia instead.
http://www.businessinsider.com/calexit-leader-louis-marinelli-russia-2017-4
http://www.businessinsider.com/calexit-leader-louis-marinelli-russia-2017-4
TheTexan
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Wouldn't CA first need the consent of all the other states in order to secede?
Not all, but most. Secession is prohibited by the Constitution, so a constitutional amendment would be needed.
For those curious where in the constitution secession is prohibited, it's prohibited by the Commerce Clause:
Secession is illegal because it would disrupt trade between the states.
(Source: Abraham Lincoln)
phill4paul
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Anti Federalist
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Despite Secession Talk, Breaking Up Is Hard To Do
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...pite-secession-talk-breaking-up-is-hard-to-do
May 04, 2017
By Mindy Fetterman
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California secession
Supporters of a new state along the California-Oregon border rally at the Capitol in Sacramento in 2016. Recent secession efforts have included fairly large, ongoing campaigns in Texas and California and smaller pushes in Oklahoma, Maine, Utah, West Virginia and New York’s Long Island.
© The Associated Press
Editor's Note: This story has been updated to correctly say the 10th Amendment relates to state powers.
APPOMATTOX COURT HOUSE, Va. — When two generals signed papers here 152 years ago bringing the Civil War to a close, they ended the bid by 11 Southern states to secede from the Union. And that, most believed, was that.
Yet ever since the South’s Gen. Robert E. Lee surrendered to the North’s Gen. Ulysses S. Grant in 1865, groups across the United States have advocated seceding from the country, their own states, or in a few cases, their cities. Recently, these efforts have ranged from fairly large, ongoing campaigns in Texas and California to smaller pushes in Oklahoma, Maine, Utah, West Virginia and New York’s Long Island, among others.
Just last month, a longshot effort to allow Californians to vote on seceding fell apart after one of the founders dropped out amid criticism of his ties to Russia. But a new group pushing secession has vowed to collect the nearly 600,000 signatures required by July to put the measure on the November 2018 ballot.
Last May, the Texas Nationalist Movement came within two votes of adding Texas independence language to the state’s Republican platform. And in Oklahoma, Republican state Sen. Joseph Silk in January introduced a bill to remove the word “inseparable” from the sentence in the state constitution describing Oklahoma as “an inseparable part of the Federal Union.”
The move for independence, whether it’s from the right of the political spectrum as in Texas, or the left as in California, reflects the political division felt across the country, said Edward Meisse, a supporter of the Yes California secession group that just disbanded. “We have two diametrically opposed philosophies in our country, and we’re just not getting anywhere,” he said. “I think we should allow states to secede so California can be California and Texas can be Texas.”
Nationwide, interest in seceding is fairly strong. An online survey by Reuters in 2014 found that nearly one in four Americans want their state to secede. The desire was highest — 34 percent — in the Southwest, which includes Texas.
In some areas of the country there is no organized effort to split from the U.S., just a feeling that “we’ve been left behind and no one cares about us,” said Dwayne Yancey, editorial page editor of The Roanoke Times who in March wrote what he called a “tongue in cheek” editorial, “Should Southwest Virginia secede from the rest of Virginia?”
“Historically we have felt left out, and a number of those issues are coming to a head,” Yancey said. Southwest Virginia is mostly rural, white and poor. Coal mining has declined dramatically, although the city of Roanoke has had a stable economy with Virginia Tech University and other employers, he said. Yet, the feeling is that the state Legislature in Richmond is “not doing right by us here.”
Despite the heightened interest in secession, many lawyers and constitutional scholars say it’s legally impossible for a state to secede because the U.S. Constitution doesn’t address the issue, and has no provision to allow it.
The U.S. Supreme Court declared in an 1869 case, Texas vs. White, that the United States is “an indestructible union.” And the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia wrote in a 2006 letter that “if there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.”
Yet some lawyers, historians and secession groups argue that the 10th Amendment of the Constitution gives states the right to decide many issues which are not in the power of the federal government. And despite the legal obstacles, the desire for self-rule and separation from others with different political, social or moral views remains strong among some groups.
Being part of a secession movement is “about being a part of the group as it circles around its sacred values and marks out what is good and what is evil,” said Jonathan Haidt, a psychologist and professor at New York University’s Stern School of Business who has written about the moral differences between liberals and conservatives. “Joining a secession movement is an act of both self-expression and group expression,” he said.
Why Secede?
One of the first secession movements arose in New England, prompted by the War of 1812. A trade embargo against England had hurt New England’s economy, and a convention was held to discuss secession. Victory in that war put a halt to the movement.
Secession movements have sprung up sporadically ever since. But the election in 2008 of the first African-American president, Barack Obama, set off a spate of efforts to secede, some of which were tied to white supremacist movements.
In Texas, which was an independent republic between 1836 and 1846, there have long been groups interested in seceding from the U.S. But the Texas Nationalist Movement, which supports a statewide referendum to settle the question, grew dramatically during Obama’s presidency, said Daniel Miller, head of the Texas Nationalist Movement.
In California, the election of Donald Trump as president has fueled secession efforts.
“We had 11,000 [signatures] before Trump, then that jumped to 30,000 in a day, then to 45,000,” said Marcus Ruiz Evans, co-founder of Yes California. “People joined because they hate Trump, but we’ve always said, ‘This isn’t about Trump. This is about a country that would elect him.’ A racist, a misogynist? Those are people you want to associate with?”
A second group in California led by Silicon Valley venture capitalist Tim Draper supported an effort to break California into six states. But supporters weren’t able to collect enough signatures to put it on the November 2016 ballot.
Brexit, the U.K.’s vote in June 2016 to leave the European Union, has heartened some U.S. secessionists, many of whom also support Scotland’s efforts to separate from the U.K. Draper’s group is working with Brexit supporter Nigel Farage of the U.K. to figure out a new strategy for splitting California into six states.
Texas and California secession groups argue that their state economies are large enough to stand alone, and that they pay more in taxes to the federal government than they get in services in return.
There’s no doubt that some secession groups are pro-white, anti-immigrant and racist, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which studies hate groups nationwide. In 2000, it named the League of the South, formed in 1994, as a hate group. Since 2014, the LOS has funded a billboard campaign in Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama and Arkansas with one big hashtag: #SECEDE.
Neither the former Yes California nor the Texas Nationalist Movement is on the SPLC’s list of hate groups, but the center says that “neo-Confederates,” who in many cases are openly secessionist, favor segregation and suggest white supremacy.
Could a State Pull Out?
Groups in Texas and California argue, in part, that because their states were once independent, they can be independent again. (A group of northern Californians claimed independence from Mexico for 25 days in 1846.)
But the U.S. Constitution doesn’t address the issue of secession. It neither gives states the right to secede nor denies it, says Gary Gallagher, director of the John L. Nau III Center for Civil War History and professor of history at the University of Virginia.
He and other legal scholars also point to the Supreme Court’s ruling in 1869. That case stemmed from Texas’ sale of U.S. government bonds during the Civil War, to help fund the Confederacy. When Texas rejoined the U.S. after the war, it argued the bonds had been sold illegally and wanted its money back.
The court ruled against Texas, declaring that Texas had “entered an indissoluble relation” when it joined the U.S., and that the country itself is a “perpetual union.”
Miller, who heads the Texas Nationalist Movement, sees it another way.
“If I had a nickel for every time someone says the Constitution doesn’t give your state the right, I’d be rich. It means that the Constitution is silent on the issue,” he said, referring to the right to secede. “So the fact that the Constitution doesn’t talk about it doesn’t eliminate it. It just means we have to turn to the court.”
Craig Lerner, professor of law at George Mason University in Arlington, Virginia, disagrees. “We had a war over secession once, and that war seems to validate Lincoln’s view that a state can’t secede without the consent of all the states.”
Lerner agrees that Texas is a bit different because it used to be an independent state. But since Texas became a part of the United States in 1845, it lost that freedom to separate, he said.
Why do groups like the Texas Nationalist Movement persevere?
“The idea that people say that things will never happen, that this is some kind of pipe dream, well, I’m pretty sure that was the feeling of the British when they wanted to get out of the E.U.,” Miller said.
“Ever since the end of World War I, people have been seeking self-determination,” he said. “Look at Scotland. It never got a vote, but after 800 years, it gets two.” That, he believes, could happen for Texas.
Perhaps. But for now and the foreseeable future, only one flag flies at Appomattox Court House in Virginia: The U.S. flag.
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...pite-secession-talk-breaking-up-is-hard-to-do
May 04, 2017
By Mindy Fetterman
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California secession
Supporters of a new state along the California-Oregon border rally at the Capitol in Sacramento in 2016. Recent secession efforts have included fairly large, ongoing campaigns in Texas and California and smaller pushes in Oklahoma, Maine, Utah, West Virginia and New York’s Long Island.
© The Associated Press
Editor's Note: This story has been updated to correctly say the 10th Amendment relates to state powers.
APPOMATTOX COURT HOUSE, Va. — When two generals signed papers here 152 years ago bringing the Civil War to a close, they ended the bid by 11 Southern states to secede from the Union. And that, most believed, was that.
Yet ever since the South’s Gen. Robert E. Lee surrendered to the North’s Gen. Ulysses S. Grant in 1865, groups across the United States have advocated seceding from the country, their own states, or in a few cases, their cities. Recently, these efforts have ranged from fairly large, ongoing campaigns in Texas and California to smaller pushes in Oklahoma, Maine, Utah, West Virginia and New York’s Long Island, among others.
Just last month, a longshot effort to allow Californians to vote on seceding fell apart after one of the founders dropped out amid criticism of his ties to Russia. But a new group pushing secession has vowed to collect the nearly 600,000 signatures required by July to put the measure on the November 2018 ballot.
Last May, the Texas Nationalist Movement came within two votes of adding Texas independence language to the state’s Republican platform. And in Oklahoma, Republican state Sen. Joseph Silk in January introduced a bill to remove the word “inseparable” from the sentence in the state constitution describing Oklahoma as “an inseparable part of the Federal Union.”
The move for independence, whether it’s from the right of the political spectrum as in Texas, or the left as in California, reflects the political division felt across the country, said Edward Meisse, a supporter of the Yes California secession group that just disbanded. “We have two diametrically opposed philosophies in our country, and we’re just not getting anywhere,” he said. “I think we should allow states to secede so California can be California and Texas can be Texas.”
Nationwide, interest in seceding is fairly strong. An online survey by Reuters in 2014 found that nearly one in four Americans want their state to secede. The desire was highest — 34 percent — in the Southwest, which includes Texas.
In some areas of the country there is no organized effort to split from the U.S., just a feeling that “we’ve been left behind and no one cares about us,” said Dwayne Yancey, editorial page editor of The Roanoke Times who in March wrote what he called a “tongue in cheek” editorial, “Should Southwest Virginia secede from the rest of Virginia?”
“Historically we have felt left out, and a number of those issues are coming to a head,” Yancey said. Southwest Virginia is mostly rural, white and poor. Coal mining has declined dramatically, although the city of Roanoke has had a stable economy with Virginia Tech University and other employers, he said. Yet, the feeling is that the state Legislature in Richmond is “not doing right by us here.”
Despite the heightened interest in secession, many lawyers and constitutional scholars say it’s legally impossible for a state to secede because the U.S. Constitution doesn’t address the issue, and has no provision to allow it.
The U.S. Supreme Court declared in an 1869 case, Texas vs. White, that the United States is “an indestructible union.” And the late U.S. Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia wrote in a 2006 letter that “if there was any constitutional issue resolved by the Civil War, it is that there is no right to secede.”
Yet some lawyers, historians and secession groups argue that the 10th Amendment of the Constitution gives states the right to decide many issues which are not in the power of the federal government. And despite the legal obstacles, the desire for self-rule and separation from others with different political, social or moral views remains strong among some groups.
Being part of a secession movement is “about being a part of the group as it circles around its sacred values and marks out what is good and what is evil,” said Jonathan Haidt, a psychologist and professor at New York University’s Stern School of Business who has written about the moral differences between liberals and conservatives. “Joining a secession movement is an act of both self-expression and group expression,” he said.
Why Secede?
One of the first secession movements arose in New England, prompted by the War of 1812. A trade embargo against England had hurt New England’s economy, and a convention was held to discuss secession. Victory in that war put a halt to the movement.
Secession movements have sprung up sporadically ever since. But the election in 2008 of the first African-American president, Barack Obama, set off a spate of efforts to secede, some of which were tied to white supremacist movements.
In Texas, which was an independent republic between 1836 and 1846, there have long been groups interested in seceding from the U.S. But the Texas Nationalist Movement, which supports a statewide referendum to settle the question, grew dramatically during Obama’s presidency, said Daniel Miller, head of the Texas Nationalist Movement.
In California, the election of Donald Trump as president has fueled secession efforts.
“We had 11,000 [signatures] before Trump, then that jumped to 30,000 in a day, then to 45,000,” said Marcus Ruiz Evans, co-founder of Yes California. “People joined because they hate Trump, but we’ve always said, ‘This isn’t about Trump. This is about a country that would elect him.’ A racist, a misogynist? Those are people you want to associate with?”
A second group in California led by Silicon Valley venture capitalist Tim Draper supported an effort to break California into six states. But supporters weren’t able to collect enough signatures to put it on the November 2016 ballot.
Brexit, the U.K.’s vote in June 2016 to leave the European Union, has heartened some U.S. secessionists, many of whom also support Scotland’s efforts to separate from the U.K. Draper’s group is working with Brexit supporter Nigel Farage of the U.K. to figure out a new strategy for splitting California into six states.
Texas and California secession groups argue that their state economies are large enough to stand alone, and that they pay more in taxes to the federal government than they get in services in return.
There’s no doubt that some secession groups are pro-white, anti-immigrant and racist, according to the Southern Poverty Law Center, which studies hate groups nationwide. In 2000, it named the League of the South, formed in 1994, as a hate group. Since 2014, the LOS has funded a billboard campaign in Florida, Tennessee, Georgia, Alabama and Arkansas with one big hashtag: #SECEDE.
Neither the former Yes California nor the Texas Nationalist Movement is on the SPLC’s list of hate groups, but the center says that “neo-Confederates,” who in many cases are openly secessionist, favor segregation and suggest white supremacy.
Could a State Pull Out?
Groups in Texas and California argue, in part, that because their states were once independent, they can be independent again. (A group of northern Californians claimed independence from Mexico for 25 days in 1846.)
But the U.S. Constitution doesn’t address the issue of secession. It neither gives states the right to secede nor denies it, says Gary Gallagher, director of the John L. Nau III Center for Civil War History and professor of history at the University of Virginia.
He and other legal scholars also point to the Supreme Court’s ruling in 1869. That case stemmed from Texas’ sale of U.S. government bonds during the Civil War, to help fund the Confederacy. When Texas rejoined the U.S. after the war, it argued the bonds had been sold illegally and wanted its money back.
The court ruled against Texas, declaring that Texas had “entered an indissoluble relation” when it joined the U.S., and that the country itself is a “perpetual union.”
Miller, who heads the Texas Nationalist Movement, sees it another way.
“If I had a nickel for every time someone says the Constitution doesn’t give your state the right, I’d be rich. It means that the Constitution is silent on the issue,” he said, referring to the right to secede. “So the fact that the Constitution doesn’t talk about it doesn’t eliminate it. It just means we have to turn to the court.”
Craig Lerner, professor of law at George Mason University in Arlington, Virginia, disagrees. “We had a war over secession once, and that war seems to validate Lincoln’s view that a state can’t secede without the consent of all the states.”
Lerner agrees that Texas is a bit different because it used to be an independent state. But since Texas became a part of the United States in 1845, it lost that freedom to separate, he said.
Why do groups like the Texas Nationalist Movement persevere?
“The idea that people say that things will never happen, that this is some kind of pipe dream, well, I’m pretty sure that was the feeling of the British when they wanted to get out of the E.U.,” Miller said.
“Ever since the end of World War I, people have been seeking self-determination,” he said. “Look at Scotland. It never got a vote, but after 800 years, it gets two.” That, he believes, could happen for Texas.
Perhaps. But for now and the foreseeable future, only one flag flies at Appomattox Court House in Virginia: The U.S. flag.
Swordsmyth
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- Apr 14, 2016
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- 74,737
One in every three California residents supports the most populous U.S. state's peaceful withdrawal from the union, according to a new Reuters/Ipsos opinion poll, many of them Democrats strongly opposed to Trump's ascension to the country's highest office.
The 32 percent support rate is sharply higher than the last time the poll asked Californians about secession, in 2014, when one-in-five or 20 percent favored it around the time Scotland held its independence referendum and voted to remain in the United Kingdom.
California also far surpasses the national average favoring secession, which stood at 22 percent, down from 24 percent in 2014.
The poll surveyed 500 Californians among more than 14,000 adults nationwide from Dec. 6 to Jan. 19 and has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of one percentage point nationally and five percentage points in California.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-california-secession-idUSKBN1572KB
The 32 percent support rate is sharply higher than the last time the poll asked Californians about secession, in 2014, when one-in-five or 20 percent favored it around the time Scotland held its independence referendum and voted to remain in the United Kingdom.
California also far surpasses the national average favoring secession, which stood at 22 percent, down from 24 percent in 2014.
The poll surveyed 500 Californians among more than 14,000 adults nationwide from Dec. 6 to Jan. 19 and has a credibility interval, a measure of accuracy, of one percentage point nationally and five percentage points in California.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-california-secession-idUSKBN1572KB
ChristianAnarchist
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Wow! Since Honest Abe said it it must be true...
Really though... Commerce clause? It's incredible how far words can be stretched. No, if a corporation can voluntarily join a "collective", then it stands to reason they can voluntarily leave that collective. There may be some notification requirements but there would be a process. It's not a binding contract where both sides have to make some sort of "exchange". It's more along the lines of joining the Boy Scouts. You have to live up to certain standards to be in the Boy Scouts and if you don't you get kicked out... you also have a right to leave the Boy Scouts any time you feel it's not right for you.
James Otis Jr.
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- Feb 29, 2012
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- 91
I don't know if a Cal-exit would be good or bad for California. But, I'm convinced it would be good for the United States.
Danke
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You can voluntarily get married. But you need government approval to get unmarried, and under their terms.
I refuse to trade with the govt unless they prepay with pre 1933 gold coins .
Anti Federalist
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‘Calexit’ Comic Book Imagines California in Revolt Against Trump Administration
http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...ornia-in-full-scale-revolution-against-trump/
by Daniel Nussbaum12 Jul 20171,599
A new comic book hitting shelves this week imagines a full-scale revolt against the federal government in the state of California over President Donald Trump’s strict immigration policies.
Calexit, a new series from Black Mask Studios, is set in a bleak near-future in which the entire state of California is plunged into both a war with the federal government and a civil war within its own borders. According to a preview of the new series in Entertainment Weekly, the comics depict a world in which climate change has ravaged much of the state, while masked Californians battle the government to defend immigrants.
The events of Calexit pick up after Trump’s presidential victory. After the president signs an executive order to deport all immigrants, California officials refuse to comply, and designate the state a “sanctuary state.” But the designation throws the state into civil war between cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco, which support the state, and the rural and inland areas of the state, which support the federal government.
The comic’s protagonist is Zora, a Mexican immigrant who becomes a “resistance army” leader, and Jamil, an “apolitical smuggler.” Together, the two must evade the authorities, while Zora must contend with her own personal desire for revenge.
http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollyw...ornia-in-full-scale-revolution-against-trump/
by Daniel Nussbaum12 Jul 20171,599
A new comic book hitting shelves this week imagines a full-scale revolt against the federal government in the state of California over President Donald Trump’s strict immigration policies.
Calexit, a new series from Black Mask Studios, is set in a bleak near-future in which the entire state of California is plunged into both a war with the federal government and a civil war within its own borders. According to a preview of the new series in Entertainment Weekly, the comics depict a world in which climate change has ravaged much of the state, while masked Californians battle the government to defend immigrants.
The events of Calexit pick up after Trump’s presidential victory. After the president signs an executive order to deport all immigrants, California officials refuse to comply, and designate the state a “sanctuary state.” But the designation throws the state into civil war between cities like Los Angeles and San Francisco, which support the state, and the rural and inland areas of the state, which support the federal government.
The comic’s protagonist is Zora, a Mexican immigrant who becomes a “resistance army” leader, and Jamil, an “apolitical smuggler.” Together, the two must evade the authorities, while Zora must contend with her own personal desire for revenge.
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