Secession is the only way out

Fivezeroes · Mar 8, 2013

The problem with secession though is that when you do it, you better make sure you have plenty of others to back you. One state against the FEDCOATS would get wiped out in a matter of weeks. Obama is trying to be like Lincoln in that regard.

green73 · Mar 8, 2013

Smart3 said:
there's always the option to kick states out of the Union instead of leaving it ourselves.

I nominate Alabama and Mississippi, to form the new nation of Waziristan.

They won't kick shit out. It's all about centralizing everything, where the earners pay for the losers.

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2 · Mar 8, 2013

Mini-Me said:
Mainly because the federal government is going to collapse at some point.

One would think so, but they seem very good at testing the limit, then backing off slightly. I do think their finances are out of control to the point where pointing at the federal reserve as a source of problems serves a useful purpose.

TheTexan · Mar 8, 2013

emazur said:
Yeah, but secession into what? A libertarian society? Sure. But it's far more likely the would-be secessionists will be the "rah-rah-rha Bush, if only Santorum had won we'd be on the right track" type of secessionists. The liberals won't talk of secession, they'll just talk about (in a rare showing of individualism) personally moving to Canada if Republican candidate X wins an election.

True, but the smaller a state is, the better. Easier to change policy. More representative of the people who live there. Easier to secede into even smaller pieces.

There are many, many benefits to a smaller state, even if on the surface it doesn't appear to change anything.

TheTexan · Mar 8, 2013

MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2 said:
One would think so, but they seem very good at testing the limit, then backing off slightly. I do think their finances are out of control to the point where pointing at the federal reserve as a source of problems serves a useful purpose.

As time passes, the short term gains from dumping the dollar increase, while the long term gains from holding the dollar decrease. It's mathematically inevitable.

green73 · Mar 8, 2013

bxm042 said:
True, but the smaller a state is, the better. Easier to change policy. More representative of the people who live there. Easier to secede into even smaller pieces.

There are many, many benefits to a smaller state, even if on the surface it doesn't appear to change anything.

Somebody has been reading Hoppe...

http://thegodthatfailed.org/2011/12/22/920/

Matthew5 · Mar 8, 2013

bxm042 said:
True, but the smaller a state is, the better. Easier to change policy. More representative of the people who live there. Easier to secede into even smaller pieces.

There are many, many benefits to a smaller state, even if on the surface it doesn't appear to change anything.

This. I just want a government that's more manageable and localized.

UMULAS · Mar 8, 2013

........

MRK · Mar 8, 2013

Fivezeroes said:
The problem with secession though is that when you do it, you better make sure you have plenty of others to back you. One state against the FEDCOATS would get wiped out in a matter of weeks. Obama is trying to be like Lincoln in that regard.

rofl the fedcoats

Christian Liberty · Mar 8, 2013

I'd say "Go Tom" but I live in Freaking NYS right now so if we seceded I'd likely be even more screwed than I already am. What's the best liberty state? I KNOW it ain't NYS.

AuH20 · Mar 8, 2013

FreedomFanatic said:
I'd say "Go Tom" but I live in Freaking NYS right now so if we seceded I'd likely be even more screwed than I already am. What's the best liberty state? I KNOW it ain't NYS.

New York is ranked dead last in the Freedom Index last I checked.

heavenlyboy34 · Mar 8, 2013

UMULAS said:
The problem I have with Dilorenzo is his attack on the constitution and the interpretation. He went beserk on me on questioning him on the ineffectiveness of the Articles of Confederations and other stuff. I mean the book which I have his autograph on the The Curse of Alexander Hamilton, completely lacks everything on the reason why the constitution and the necessary and proper clause.

I mean secession is constitutional, but the reason why he dispays is wrong.

Did you ask him in person or on the interwebz? If it was just type, you may have expressed yourself in a way that he considered hostile.

(btw, the AoC were only "ineffective" if you consider command and control of everyday actions "effective" as the Court Historians do. One of the reasons the Constitution is such an epic fail is its centralization of power in the federal regime)

green73 · Mar 8, 2013

LoneStarLocke said:
This. I just want a government that's more manageable and localized.

The most manageable and localized gov't is self-gov't.

green73 · Mar 8, 2013

UMULAS said:
The problem I have with Dilorenzo is his attack on the constitution and the interpretation. He went beserk on me on questioning him on the ineffectiveness of the Articles of Confederations and other stuff. I mean the book which I have his autograph on the The Curse of Alexander Hamilton, completely lacks everything on the reason why the constitution and the necessary and proper clause.

I mean secession is constitutional, but the reason why he dispays is wrong.

Details?

green73 · Mar 8, 2013

FreedomFanatic said:
I'd say "Go Tom" but I live in Freaking NYS right now so if we seceded I'd likely be even more screwed than I already am. What's the best liberty state? I KNOW it ain't NYS.

Maybe there'd be a domino effect, and you could move, but I doubt your state would ever secede first.

seapilot · Mar 8, 2013

Smart3 said:
California is certainly large enough to go its own, but it's also the most likely to remain in the Union even if there is a collapse.

I believe there wont be a collapse. More like a seize up of layers of bureaucracy. I have seen it happen with the Fed gov. in a small circumstance recently. They made so much hassle for paperwork that vendors could not get paid for services rendered up to 6 months past. Vendors started stopping service.

This will occur someday on a massive scale when people realize that the Fed gov credit is crap and they are not going to get paid. The gov will promise payment to employees and vendors but eventually vendors stop service and Fed employees start making things work more efficiently in there own departments. This may take up to a year or two years because many people will believe that they will eventually get paid. Eventually the employees will get other jobs or and start selling Government assets into the private sector to pay the bills ( Soviet Union they did this ).

Things will freeze up at the Fed Level. The states that are somewhat solvent will have to take up the slack , cut budgets where the Fed stops with the credit. Things will get very local then. Once states no longer receive any payments from fedgov they are forced to become independent again. Some states might band with others for services out of necessity. Trade will continue except without a big central gov. Military will again be localized with National guard units and bases being supported by independent states realizing they have to continue to fund them for defense purposes. They will be staffed mainly by part time soldiers, that have other jobs in the private sector or local government.

Not quite the secession everyone thinks will happen like the civil war, but more of a secession of states out of necessity rather than out of principal.

Christian Liberty · Mar 9, 2013

AuH20 said:
New York is ranked dead last in the Freedom Index last I checked.

Yeah, I figured it would be somewhere near there. I'm still in high school. I wouldn't ever buy property here.

green73 said:
Maybe there'd be a domino effect, and you could move, but I doubt your state would ever secede first.

I'm just hoping we'd never see secession and then closed borders. But yeah, I'm all for what Tom is advocating anyway. I'm just annoyed at the idiocy of New York's leadership. Cuomo and Bloomberg* really need to be tied up somewhere and forced to leave the rest of us alone.

*I don't live in NYC. Even still, I hate the nanny they call "Mayor."

SonofThunder · Mar 9, 2013

heavenlyboy34 said:
(btw, the AoC were only "ineffective" if you consider command and control of everyday actions "effective" as the Court Historians do. One of the reasons the Constitution is such an epic fail is its centralization of power in the federal regime)

Exactly. See my namesake for more on this issue

(iow, read the Anti-Federalist Papers, then tell me Ron Paul isn't Patrick Henry reincarnated)

Keith and stuff · Mar 9, 2013

shemdogg said:
http://freestateproject.org/

once you get here you'll realize you're out

That's funny people, the guest host woman of Alex Jones was Nashua resident Katherine Albrecht. She helped lead the anti-REAL ID movement while living in NH. She spoke at Liberty Forum (her 2nd Liberty Forum to speak at) and talked with Tom Woods about his time in Nashua and the FSP. She is the regular host of a GCN program that is after Alex Jones and before FreeTalkLive (of Keene, NH).

BTW, did you see Alex Jones speak at Porcfest?

Keith and stuff · Mar 9, 2013

RonPaulFanInGA said:
Obama: 368,529 (52.2%)
Romney: 327,870 (46.4%)

http://www.politico.com/2012-election/results/president/new-hampshire/

Surely you have some type of point? Would Glenn Beck not approve or something

Secession is the only way out

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