Secession fever spikes in five states as conservatives seek to escape blue rule

[Matt Collins]

With this type of attitude, yes, it is unlikely anything will ever happen. If you do want something like this to happen, then get to work, there are a lot of people that need convincing. This is never going to spontaneously occur with everybody waiting around for it to begin.

Except that sometimes one has to consider reality. Knowing which battles are winnable and which goals are attainable is critical to winning.

Even Ron acknowledge this. Probably not going to be able to end the Fed anytime in the foreseeable future. But an audit is actually a lot more realistic for example. That's why Ron shifted his focus to Auditing the Fed instead of Ending the Fed.

Also, read Sun Tzu if you want to learn how to fight and win. It will help you "choose your battles"

 

[Champ]

Except that sometimes one has to consider reality. Knowing which battles are winnable and which goals are attainable is critical to winning.

Even Ron acknowledge this. Probably not going to be able to end the Fed anytime in the foreseeable future. But an audit is actually a lot more realistic for example. That's why Ron shifted his focus to Auditing the Fed instead of Ending the Fed.

Also, read Sun Tzu if you want to learn how to fight and win. It will help you "choose your battles"

Right. So let's do it one step at a time and not tell people it's a worthless cause. There are a lot of ways to go about this, we don't have to follow one man's plan, we can have multiple methods at our disposal, multiple states, multiple movements. Defeatism has overtaken a large majority of the country and combined with the msm's misdirection, has delivered us to this exact point in time where everyone feels like they have given up and/or abandoned ship. Zero reason to contribute to that. Give people inspiration just like Ron Paul did for all of us, not these attempts to eradicate hope.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Right. So let's do it one step at a time and not tell people it's a worthless cause. There are a lot of ways to go about this, we don't have to follow one man's plan, we can have multiple methods at our disposal, multiple states, multiple movements. Defeatism has overtaken a large majority of the country and combined with the msm's misdirection, has delivered us to this exact point in time where everyone feels like they have given up and/or abandoned ship. Zero reason to contribute to that. Give people inspiration just like Ron Paul did for all of us, not these attempts to eradicate hope.

Revolutions are built on hope.

 

[Matt Collins]

Right. So let's do it one step at a time and not tell people it's a worthless cause. There are a lot of ways to go about this, we don't have to follow one man's plan, we can have multiple methods at our disposal, multiple states, multiple movements. Defeatism has overtaken a large majority of the country and combined with the msm's misdirection, has delivered us to this exact point in time where everyone feels like they have given up and/or abandoned ship. Zero reason to contribute to that. Give people inspiration just like Ron Paul did for all of us, not these attempts to eradicate hope.

Chasing unrealistic goals is part of the reason defeatism is so prevalent among the liberty movement. People expect to change the entire world quickly and that's just not the way it works.

There is much more low hanging fruit available for victories. Stopping tax hikes and passing gun control in red states for instance. Decriminalizing marijuana and upholding civil liberties in blue states is easier too.

Attempt stuff you can actually win, then move on to the bigger things. You don't start your mountain climbing hobby in the Himalayas, you start it in the Appalachians and work your way up.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Chasing unrealistic goals is part of the reason defeatism is so prevalent among the liberty movement. People expect to change the entire world quickly and that's just not the way it works.

There is much more low hanging fruit available for victories. Stopping tax hikes and passing gun control in red states for instance. Decriminalizing marijuana and upholding civil liberties in blue states is easier too.

Attempt stuff you can actually win, then move on to the bigger things. You don't start your mountain climbing hobby in the Himalayas, you start it in the Appalachians and work your way up.

People stuck in deep blue states have nothing else they can do so this is a good idea.

 

[Champ]

Chasing unrealistic goals is part of the reason defeatism is so prevalent among the liberty movement. People expect to change the entire world quickly and that's just not the way it works.

There is much more low hanging fruit available for victories. Stopping tax hikes and passing gun control in red states for instance. Decriminalizing marijuana and upholding civil liberties in blue states is easier too.

Attempt stuff you can actually win, then move on to the bigger things. You don't start your mountain climbing hobby in the Himalayas, you start it in the Appalachians and work your way up.

Let's work on those issues and concurrently work on the one mentioned above in the thread. No reason you can't do both. If you don't have the time, don't have the energy to do that, or it's not your priority, that's fine, do what you can with the time you have. Please don't discourage others. And defeatism is not just an issue relevant to liberty minded/libertarian folk. It's a worldwide epidemic. Let's not continue adding to it.

 

[Matt Collins]

No reason you can't do both.

This statement reveals that you have obviously never been involved in political activism in any serious capacity.

 

[Champ]

This statement reveals that you have obviously never been involved in political activism in any serious capacity.

You missed the following statement where I said: "If you don't have the time, don't have the energy to do that, or it's not your priority, that's fine, do what you can with the time you have. Please don't discourage others."

 

[Zippyjuan]

The rural areas of any state that is totally overrun should look to join an adjoining conservative state.

This can work, civil disobedience can force the state legislature to agree and the Constitution doesn't actually require the consent of the state legislature unless a NEW state is formed.

Some parts of West Virginia were returned to Virginia after the civil war without the consent of the West Virginia legislature by an act of Congress, if we take back the House we can go that route.

That was due to conflict about just where to draw the border line between West Virginia and Virginia when West Virginia was created as a separate state in 1863. It followed the Constitution on the creation of new states. No state has had a part of it successfully become part of another state.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/west-virginia-emerges-as-separate-state-june-20-1863-224227

On this day in 1863, West Virginia became the nation’s 35th state. The land that formed the new state originally constituted part of Virginia. It came into being 60 days after President Abraham Lincoln issued a proclamation approving the political divorce.

In the first inauguration speech of a West Virginia governor, Arthur Boreman said: “West Virginia should long since have had a separate state existence. The east has always looked upon that portion of the state west of the mountains, as a sort of outside appendage—a territory in a state of pupilage.”

Historically, the two areas differed culturally and economically; pioneering individuals settled the western portion, while a slave-holding, aristocratic-led society dominated the eastern half. When Virginia seceded from the Union in 1861 to join the Confederacy, the westerners, few of whom owned slaves, opted to stay with the Union.

For a while, Virginia struggled along with two state governments, one Confederate and the other Union. In 1861, residents of 39 counties in the west voted to join the federal government. In time, 11 more counties joined, and the bulk of what is now West Virginia was poised to become a state.

The mountains west of the Blue Ridge became the eastern boundary, thus forming a natural bulwark against the Confederacy.

Union politicians made sure those counties in what is now the state’s eastern panhandle were included because of their strategic location along the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad. The railroad was crucial in moving troops and goods between Washington and the Civil War’s western front.

Disputes about the location of the border that divides Loudoun County, Virginia, and Jefferson County, West Virginia, continued well into the 20th century. In 1991, both state Legislatures appropriated funds to enable a boundary commission to look into a 15-mile stretch of the mountainous border area.

 

[timosman]

Unfortunately, conservatives are out of luck at this time, only choice they have is between socialist liberal progressive values of Dems ( usually aligned with Soros funding) and NYC Republicans values ( aligned with Adelson funding) also seen as "liberal progressive" by non-NYC conservatives.
There choice might be a genuine libertarian/3rd party who can take on deep pockets/deep neocon wings of both sides.

 

[Swordsmyth]

That was due to conflict about just where to draw the border line between West Virginia and Virginia when West Virginia was created as a separate state in 1863. It followed the Constitution on the creation of new states. No state has had a part of it successfully become part of another state.

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/west-virginia-emerges-as-separate-state-june-20-1863-224227

The Constitution was not followed when West Virginia was separated from Virginia because Virginia had seceded.
After the war they were forced to agree in order to get their statehood back.
But that's irrelevant, the border was adjusted by act of Congress without the participation of the state legislatures.

The Constitution does not say anything about moving the borders of states that already exist.

 

[Occam's Banana]

With this type of attitude, yes, it is unlikely anything will ever happen. If you do want something like this to happen, then get to work, there are a lot of people that need convincing. This is never going to spontaneously occur with everybody waiting around for it to begin.

Except that sometimes one has to consider reality. Knowing which battles are winnable and which goals are attainable is critical to winning.

Even Ron acknowledge this. Probably not going to be able to end the Fed anytime in the foreseeable future. But an audit is actually a lot more realistic for example. That's why Ron shifted his focus to Auditing the Fed instead of Ending the Fed.

Also, read Sun Tzu if you want to learn how to fight and win. It will help you "choose your battles"

Champ is right, and rather than effectively rebutting what he said, you actually provided an excellent example in support of his point.

No one would be talking about auditing the Fed if Ron Paul had not first spent so much time "unrealistically" insisting on ending it.

IOW: If Ron had followed your advice, you would not presently be lecturing us about how much more "realistic" it is to merely audit the Fed.

Significant socio-political changes (whether they are good ones or bad ones) never start out by being "realistic." (If they did, then they wouldn't be significant ...)

 

[Matt Collins]

Please don't discourage others."

Of course I am going to discourage others who are going to kamikaze themselves for no good reason. Fighting battles that are a foregone conclusion with zero strategic value is a morale killer. Have you seen the Libertarian Party lately?

 

[Swordsmyth]

Of course I am going to discourage others who are going to kamikaze themselves for no good reason. Fighting battles that are a foregone conclusion with zero strategic value is a morale killer. Have you seen the Libertarian Party lately?

That's not the case here.

 

[Origanalist]

Of course I am going to discourage others who are going to kamikaze themselves for no good reason. Fighting battles that are a foregone conclusion with zero strategic value is a morale killer. Have you seen the Libertarian Party lately?

Can we call you Moderate Matt?