Seattle: Man shot and killed by cops for whittling.

[Anti Federalist]

This story brings to mind that South Park episode, where Jimbo and Ned had a hunting show, but because of new laws on the books, they could now only kill animals in self-defense. To get around this, they would approach their game and yell into the video camera, "it's headed right for us!", even though the unsuspecting critter was clearly standing around, disinterested.

Now, I'm not saying that this is what happened to the whittler in Seattle, but isn't it interesting how often we hear this same excuse from trigger-happy cops around the country when their misdeeds are called into question? Also, how easy would it be for these police to prove their claims of self-defense, when we know they have dashcams and witnesses galore? I say that until we see the dashcam footage, these officers should be suspended without pay.

Lol, yeah right...

YouTube - south park clip

 

[fedup100]

We need a new category here on the forum for Jack boot abuse, it is so out of control, the covers must be lifted so the whole country can get a good whiff.

YouTube - Savannah PD assault Last Biscuit's Momma Ally for filming them

 

[osan]

Comply, right away, or get shot, no questions asked.

And even "compliance" is often not enough, especially when you have a bunch of these hut hutting assholes all shouting contradictory orders.

I've lived all over the USA and one thing I noticed is that in gun friendly states the cops tend to be more polite and careful in the way they approach and interact with "ordinary" citizens.

Here in WV the cops are generally pretty polite. They know they risk getting shot deader'n stone if they get cute. There are, of course, exceptions.

About 3 years ago our esteemed Summers county sheriff, Gary Wheeler, got caught playing the fiddle with another man's wife. Hubby beat the living snot out of the sheriff and Gary didn't dare do anything "official", like arresting him for assaulting an officer. Had he, chances are fair to middling he would have up and disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again. That's one of the reasons I like it here.

I've lived in Seattle. It is a liberal shit-hole in terms of politics. That the cops there would such cowards doesn't surprise me in the least.

I feel there needs to be a serious reining-in of the police all over this nation. If people hung together and stopped putting up with this sort of crap, it would stop happening. If any cop trying this sort of thing was met by, say, a dozen pissed off locals all pointing guns at him, chances are pretty good he would get some religion, pack his pistola up and go home. We have this circumstance because we put up with it.

 

[osan]

[h1]He's considered a very good officer. He has a good record.[/h1]

Note the use of the present tense, he currently has a good record.

All bad records have to start somewhere.

 

[osan]

This cop needs to go to jail for life.

No. He needs to be publicly executed for murdering a citizen.

 

[Anti Federalist]

i've lived all over the usa and one thing i noticed is that in gun friendly states the cops tend to be more polite and careful in the way they approach and interact with "ordinary" citizens.

Here in wv the cops are generally pretty polite. They know they risk getting shot deader'n stone if they get cute. There are, of course, exceptions.

About 3 years ago our esteemed summers county sheriff, gary wheeler, got caught playing the fiddle with another man's wife. Hubby beat the living snot out of the sheriff and gary didn't dare do anything "official", like arresting him for assaulting an officer. Had he, chances are fair to middling he would have up and disappeared, never to be seen or heard from again. That's one of the reasons i like it here.

I've lived in seattle. It is a liberal shit-hole in terms of politics. That the cops there would such cowards doesn't surprise me in the least.

I feel there needs to be a serious reining-in of the police all over this nation. If people hung together and stopped putting up with this sort of crap, it would stop happening. If any cop trying this sort of thing was met by, say, a dozen pissed off locals all pointing guns at him, chances are pretty good he would get some religion, pack his pistola up and go home. We have this circumstance because we put up with it.

+1776

 

[osan]

While I understand your point, perhaps he was hostile towards police because they were pestering him for whittling. Also, this implies that the police knew the guy was increasingly hostile... so why bother him?

Because they can.

 

[osan]

Acting Deputy Chief Nick Metz said Tuesday that Birk was stopped in his car at a red light as he headed south on Boren when he spotted Williams walking in a crosswalk "carrying a wooden board and a knife."http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2012769201_copshooting01m.html

There is )was??) a guy in Seattle who used to dress in full Japanese battle array, replete with katana and wakizashi. At first, Seattle cops had a shit when they say him parading around like that. By some miracle they failed to shoot his ass dead and got "used" to seeing him that way and left him alone. This attitude of forbearance appears to have gone the way of the dodo.

 

[Mach]

Some update, the witnesses, of course, were telling the truth.

------------------------

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2013082467_shooting06m.html


* Autopsy report on John T. Williams' wounds (PDF)




Woodcarver was shot four times in his side by officer, autopsy shows

John T. Williams, the First Nations woodcarver fatally shot by a Seattle police officer Aug. 30, was struck by four bullets on the right side of his body, indicating he was not facing the officer at the time the shots were fired, the attorney representing the Williams family said Tuesday.

By Steve Miletich

Seattle Times staff reporter


John T. Williams, the woodcarver fatally shot by a Seattle police officer Aug. 30, was struck by four bullets on the right side of his body, indicating he was not facing the officer at the time the shots were fired, the attorney representing the Williams family said Tuesday.

"There's nothing looking like he was facing toward him," Seattle attorney Tim Ford said of Williams' position as the officer fired. "It was all right side."

Ford, in an interview with The Seattle Times, provided a portion of an autopsy report prepared by the King County Medical Examiner's Office relating to the gunshot wounds.

Ford questioned whether the officer needed to shoot if Williams wasn't directly facing him. "... Where is the threat?" he said.

Seattle police have previously said that Officer Ian Birk fired four rounds from a distance of nine to 10 feet. But police officials have not disclosed where Williams was struck, how many times or the precise positions of Birk and Williams.

Sgt. Sean Whitcomb, the department's chief spokesman, said he couldn't comment on autopsy results because of confidentiality rules governing the investigation.

Sgt. Rich O'Neill, the president of the Seattle Police Officers' Guild, said Tuesday that he could not comment on the shooting investigation. But O'Neill said, in general, an armed person who is standing sideways to an officer can still pose a threat.

Birk, 27, shot Williams at Boren Avenue and Howell Street after he stopped his patrol car at a red light and saw Williams carrying a small knife that turned out to be used for carving.

Williams, 50, who was a member of Nuu-Chah-Nulth First Nations in British Columbia, ignored three commands to drop the knife, police officials said. The department originally said Williams advanced on Birk, but later retreated on that statement.

Video from a camera in Birk's patrol car, which hasn't been made public, shows Williams crossing the street in front of Birk and, moments later, the officer crossing in front of his car to the northwest corner of Boren and Howell, Deputy Police Chief Nick Metz said at an Aug. 31 news briefing.

The camera did not capture video of the shooting, but Birk can be heard on an audio recording ordering Williams three times to drop the knife, Metz said at the briefing.

Williams collapsed on the sidewalk along Howell Street, where he was pronounced dead.

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Williams had been standing and facing north when he was struck by the shots, Ford said, citing witness accounts. Birk had approached Williams from the side, in an east-to-west direction, stopping just to the east of Williams, Ford said.

Williams was shot once in the right chest, with an exit wound in his left armpit, according to the autopsy report. A second shot entered the right side of Williams' chin, with an exit wound on the left side of his chin, the report said.

Williams was shot a third time in his upper right arm, the report said. The round exited the arm and then entered and exited his chest, according to the report.

A fourth shot struck Williams' right forearm, exiting through the upper arm, the report said.

Ford said that the autopsy didn't show in which order the shots were fired, but that ballistics experts might be able to determine that.

It has not been disclosed in which hand Williams was carrying the legal, 3-inch folding knife recovered by police at the scene.

The autopsy report also noted that a pair of headphones attached to an AM-FM radio were found with Williams' body, Ford said. The report didn't specify where the headphones were retrieved, Ford said.

Williams' family has said he probably didn't even hear the officer command him to drop the knife because he was deaf in one ear and wearing headphones.

Whitcomb, the police spokesman, said autopsy results were available to the department's Firearms Review Board, which completed a confidential inquiry into the shooting during a one-day proceeding that ended Monday evening.

The board was to determine if the shooting was justified, not justified or accidental and submit its preliminary findings to Police Chief John Diaz.

Diaz was to make his own preliminary confidential finding, pending an expected King County court inquest that could bring out more information.

In a written statement released Tuesday, the department said, the confidential preliminary findings have been submitted to Diaz. "Per Department Policy — and to support the integrity of the upcoming King County Inquest — the Department will not comment on any findings or recommendations," the statement said.

The Firearms Review Board will reconvene after the evaluation of criminal liability by the inquest jury and King County prosecutor, the statement said.

Birk, who joined the department about two years ago, will remain on routine paid administrative leave.

 

[dannno]

You know, it's pretty funny but I went to a rap concert in Seattle last year and I entered the establishment twice.. first, listened to some music, then went out to a bar with my friend and returned..

Both times I was searched and patted down at the door, and when I was in for the second time I was randomly going through my pockets and realized I had my knife on me.. in the concert.. I'd ACCIDENTALLY snuck it through security who did pat down searches TWICE!!

I had no idea it was illegal to carry knives in the city at all..

 

[Brian4Liberty]

The autopsy report also noted that a pair of headphones attached to an AM-FM radio were found with Williams' body, Ford said. The report didn't specify where the headphones were retrieved, Ford said.

Williams' family has said he probably didn't even hear the officer command him to drop the knife because he was deaf in one ear and wearing headphones.

Knew that was coming. Deaf or headphones, turns out to be both. What the hell is wrong with our Police training? This shoot first, ask questions later bs has to stop.

 

[dannno]

^Wow.

 

[youngbuck]

Knew that was coming. Deaf or headphones, turns out to be both. What the hell is wrong with our Police training? This shoot first, ask questions later bs has to stop.

This is not even close to just being a matter of police training. It's a matter of common sense, respect, self-control, and discretion. More and more cops seem to be lacking these nowadays.

If you ask me, this was murder.

 

[Brian4Liberty]

This is not even close to just being a matter of police training. It's a matter of common sense, respect, self-control, and discretion. More and more cops seem to be lacking these nowadays.

If you ask me, this was murder.

Oh you mean if he used his brain instead of being programmed like a robot?

 

[ChickenHawk]

You know, it's pretty funny but I went to a rap concert in Seattle last year and I entered the establishment twice.. first, listened to some music, then went out to a bar with my friend and returned..

Both times I was searched and patted down at the door, and when I was in for the second time I was randomly going through my pockets and realized I had my knife on me.. in the concert.. I'd ACCIDENTALLY snuck it through security who did pat down searches TWICE!!

I had no idea it was illegal to carry knives in the city at all..

It's not. Only fixed blades and knives over 3.5" are illegal to carry concealed. The knife the whittling guy had was legal.

 

[Reason]

YouTube - Shooting Of Woodcarver John T Williams NOT Justified! Preliminary Finding By Seattle Police

 

[fedup100]

The cop is a murder, needs to tried and sent to the gallows.

 

[jclay2]

The cop is a murder, needs to tried and sent to the gallows.

nope, instead he gets a paid vacation. What an awesome system. The cop gets to stay at home and play Halo for murder. Isn't the government great! And they say that only cops should have guns. What a joke.

 

[Acala]

21 foot rule

This is the result of standard training.

Cops are now trained that a suspect with a knife in hand is a deadly threat anywhere within 21 feet of the officer. This has also been erroneously taught as "you are justified in shooting anyone with a knife within 21 feet if they do not respond to command".

See:

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weap...ense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/

The police in this country have been turned into killing machines. Even the "good" cops that are not sadistic bullies have been trained into being hair-trigger mayhem makers.

 

[Anti Federalist]

This is the result of standard training.

Cops are now trained that a suspect with a knife in hand is a deadly threat anywhere within 21 feet of the officer. This has also been erroneously taught as "you are justified in shooting anyone with a knife within 21 feet if they do not respond to command".

See:

http://www.policeone.com/edged-weap...ense-Is-or-was-the-21-foot-rule-valid-Part-1/

The police in this country have been turned into killing machines. Even the "good" cops that are not sadistic bullies have been trained into being hair-trigger mayhem makers.

^^^^ Is correct.