SCOTUS rules 7-2 to stop the Trump administration from deporting a class of Venezuelans under the Alien Enemies Act

[nikcers]

The government doesn't, can't, and never has, really represented the people. The entire purpose of having a government is for there to be a double standard where it is allowed to do things the people aren't permitted to do.

But that's beside the point. Just because you are part of the group you call "the people," that doesn't give you a right to remove from the country anyone you want simply by calling them a dangerous alien without having to prove they actually are one. And as you have no such right, nor can you delegate that right to the government to do on your behalf.

Well isn't that what Ron Paul was? He was a representative of the People who elected him?

Ron Paul has said the primary role of government is national security. Its what the declaration of independence says is the reason why we have a government.

That among those rights is the right of the people to form a government to secure the right to life and liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

So of course the people have the right to defend themselves and they can do it through their country's government.

 

[Voluntarist]

Not to butt in here, but I don't see that as a solution. That is the problem. The government has no right to tell us who we can and can't hire.

Oh, I agree with you on that (regardless of the citizenship status of the individual being hired). But AF had asked me to give him a solution. So I put on a different hat and proposed a solution that wasn't any more egregious than denying Habeas or Due Process (since that's where the bar seems to be set these days) ... and it's one that doesn't require any existing laws to be changed, merely enforced.

Mike Rowe warns that there are 7 million men in their prime who aren't working - who aren't even looking for work. But they won't take the jobs that the undocumented workers are willing to do. Those jobs seem to be beneath those 7 million men. Put those men to work and you put a really big dent in the supply of opportunity available to the undocumented - meaning they have less incentive to come to the US.

 

[nikcers]

Oh, I agree with you on that. But AF had asked me to give him a solution. So I put on a different hat and proposed a solution that wasn't any more egregious that denying Habeas or Due Process (since that's where the bar seems to be set these days) ... and it's one that doesn't require any existing laws to be changed, merely enforced.

Mike Rowe warns that there are 7 million men in their prime who aren't working - who aren't even looking for work. But they won't take the jobs that the undocumented workers are willing to do. Those jobs seem to be beneath those 7 million men. Put those men to work and you put a really big dent in the supply of opportunity available to the undocumented - meaning they have less incentive to come to the US.

So my 20 year old coworker who was murdered and left his wife and newborn child without a husband and father.

Those are the real costs to having an open border.

Pushing those costs for the rest of us to pay doesnt make them go away.

 

[Voluntarist]

J6ers were American citizens.
Deportees are foreign invaders.
I'm willing to say enough due process should be in place so that no US citizen gets caught up.
I'm also willing to say that transport to a foreign jail should cease.

A lot of people seem to forget that the suspension clause of the Constitution applies to everyone, not just non-citizens. If the President has the sole power to declare what is a "Case of Rebellion or Invasion" then he can suspend Habeas (and by extension, Due Process") from anyone he deems a threat (aka: anyone being a nuisance). If the President had the unchecked authority to declare the undocumented migrants to be an "Invasion", he could deny Habeas to anyone he pretended to suspect of aiding and abetting those undocumented migrants (citizen or not). Likewise, if the President had declared J6 to be a "Rebellion", he could deny Habeas to anyone he pretended to believe was on the ground participating in J6, as well as anyone he pretended to suspect of aiding and abetting those individuals. Never gift power to a government office based upon who currently occupies the office - because that power will eventually be used against you by someone else holding that same office and who is at odds with you.

 

[nikcers]

A lot of people seem to forget that the suspension clause of the Constitution applies to everyone, not just non-citizens. If the President has the sole power to declare what is a "Case of Rebellion or Invasion" then he can suspend Habeas (and by extension, Due Process") from anyone he deems a threat (aka: anyone being a nuisance). If the President had the unchecked authority to declare the undocumented migrants to be an "Invasion", he could deny Habeas to anyone he pretended to suspect of aiding and abetting those undocumented migrants (citizen or not). Likewise, if the President had declared J6 to be a "Rebellion", he could deny Habeas to anyone he pretended to believe was on the ground participating in J6, as well as anyone he pretended to suspect of aiding and abetting those individuals. Never gift power to a government office based upon who currently occupies the office - because that power will eventually be used against you by someone else holding that same office who is at odds with you.

Any president could abuse their power and we would remove them and put a different president in.

You're saying we shouldn't have a president because we could elect a bad president.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Remember back when this site was young and things like the PATRIOT Act, the various iterations of NDAA, the Gitmo prison, etc., were the things that most galvanized Ron Paul supporters, and site members would have unanimously castigated any SCOTUS that *didn't* rule against those things?

I remember when Ron said immigration could be like an invasion and require being treated like one.
I remember when he said to put the military on the border.

You are comparing apples and oranges, as usual, you have to because your position is untenable in the true light.

 

[Invisible Man]

So my 20 year old coworker who was murdered and left his wife and newborn child without a husband and father.

Those are the real costs to having an open border.

Pushing those costs for the rest of us to pay doesnt make them go away.

My dad was killed in a car accident that was caused by a right-handed driver. We could have prevented that if we had deported all right-handed people before that happened. You and everyone else who opposes deporting all right-handed people are to blame for all of the victims of murders and negligent homicides that we know are going to be caused by them in the future.

 

[nikcers]

My dad was killed in a car accident that was caused by a right-handed driver. We could have prevented that if we had deported all right-handed people before that happened. You and everyone else who opposes deporting all right-handed people are to blame for all of the victims of murders and negligent homicides that we know are going to be caused by them in the future.

I think I get what you are saying.

We can not deport alien enemies because your dad was killed by a right handed driver.

A drunk driver kills someone with their car- well that's fine if they are right handed you can't blame all right handed people.

My dad was killed by cancer but we can't blame all cancers for killing people. We shouldn't try to prevent cancer or cure cancer. Not all cancers are bad.

 

[Swordsmyth]

My dad was killed in a car accident that was caused by a right-handed driver. We could have prevented that if we had deported all right-handed people before that happened. You and everyone else who opposes deporting all right-handed people are to blame for all of the victims of murders and negligent homicides that we know are going to be caused by them in the future.

Apples and oranges, as always.
Not only do illegal invaders have no right to be here, but they have demonstrated a criminal tendency by invading illegally.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I'd allow the opportunities available here be the throttle to regulate the entry of new people. When the opportunities aren't there, new migrants tend to stop coming (as during the Covid time period - when they were self-deporting). The exception to that "opportunity" rule seems to be those those cases in which the government meddles to bring in people and provide then with support (private charity does a much better job of that than does the government). The perspective you seem to be espousing is the same one the Know-Nothings used against the Irish "race", then the German "race", etc. (French, Italian, Chinese) - that they couldn't be assimilated. I fear them less that the "citizens" that are already here and who advocate that the President can unilaterally decide when Habeas and Due Process can be suspended and to whom based upon some redefinition of "Invasion" and "Rebellion".

But you didn't address that possible solution I proposed to what you consider to be the problem - the proposal being to pursue those employers who violate the law by providing jobs to those who are not legally eligible to work in the US - doing more than giving them a slap on the wrist, and actually fining them and/or imprisoning them. Cut the head off the snake. The laws for that are already on the books - just enforce them. By doing that, employers violating the law learn - that takes away the employment opportunity for those not authorized to work in the US. When all you do is go after and remove an unauthorized worker, all you've done is vacate that job positions which thereby opens the position up for the next unauthorized worker ... rinse, repeat. Why aren't they going after the employers? It's seems like entrapment to me - the employer offers the undocumented guy a job and then ICE arrests the employee rather than the employer (and then the employer turns around and hired another undocumented guy).

And in Nashville last week, the employers were telling their undocumented workers to go home because ICE was active in the area and the workers might be apprehended. How is that any different from the case of Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Hannah Dugan, who was arrested for shepherding an undocumented immigrant out a back door in an attempt to avoid ICE.

I missed that, my apologies.

I agree.

 

[Occam's Banana]

[...] the case of Milwaukee County Circuit Judge Hannah Dugan, who was arrested for shepherding an undocumented immigrant out a back door in an attempt to avoid ICE.

Judge Dugan guilty of felony obstruction; case is far from over | FOX6 News Milwaukee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB1zPlczlCk
{FOX6 News Milwaukee | 19 December 2025}

While a federal court jury reached a split verdict in the Judge Hannah Dugan trial on Thursday, Dec. 18, the case is far from over.