Scott Walker not looking for rape or incest exemptions in Wisconsin 20-week abortion ban

It should be 0 weeks. And a mandatory death penalty for any offense.

Why am I picturing a bunch of police officers serving a no-knock raid warrant then standing around investigating a miscarriage in a family's toilet?

Also, what are your thoughts on natural abortificants? Should they be illegal to grow, sell or possess?
 
Why am I picturing a bunch of police officers serving a no-knock raid warrant then standing around investigating a miscarriage in a family's toilet?

Not sure.

Also, what are your thoughts on natural abortificants? Should they be illegal to grow, sell or possess?

I think so. Though I would say that illegitimate enforcement methods (like the ones being used today against the "war on drugs") are still illegitimate even if an actual crime is being committed.
 
It should be 0 weeks. And a mandatory death penalty for any offense.

Are you going to take care of the newborn? Feed, cloth, give it health care and a proper education? Do you think the government should do it? What if the mother can't and the father is in jail? Are you for jailing the mother for not being able to provide for the child and taxing citizens to pay for it?

Just curious.
 
Are you going to take care of the newborn? Feed, cloth, give it health care and a proper education? Do you think the government should do it? What if the mother can't and the father is in jail? Are you for jailing the mother for not being able to provide for the child and taxing citizens to pay for it?

Just curious.

The church should be taking care of children that families cannot take care of on their own to the extent that they are able.

Plus, in a free market, poverty would be much less of a problem anyways. If our government followed Romans 13:4 and limited its role to punishing overtly and abominable wicked acts (like murder of the unborn) and stopped trying to screw with the economy we wouldn't be in the mess we're in economically.

I'm not for punishing people for being unable to provide. I don't believe in compulsory taxation.
 
I think so. Though I would say that illegitimate enforcement methods (like the ones being used today against the "war on drugs") are still illegitimate even if an actual crime is being committed.

There is only one enforcement method used for chemical compounds and offensive plant material and you read about it here daily.

If you agree to outlaw, ban or control any plant or chemical then you must, by default, accept the methods of enforcement...
 
There is only one enforcement method used for chemical compounds and offensive plant material and you read about it here daily.

If you agree to outlaw, ban or control any plant or chemical then you must, by default, accept the methods of enforcement...

So are you basically telling me my choices are to accept legalized murder of unborn children, or legalized murder by police officers?

Both of those chocies are wicked and I am convinced that God would judge our nation for either of them.
 
The church should be taking care of children that families cannot take care of on their own to the extent that they are able.

Plus, in a free market, poverty would be much less of a problem anyways. If our government followed Romans 13:4 and limited its role to punishing overtly and abominable wicked acts (like murder of the unborn) and stopped trying to screw with the economy we wouldn't be in the mess we're in economically.

I'm not for punishing people for being unable to provide. I don't believe in compulsory taxation.

Should do and done are two different things. We are not in a free market. So now what?

As I said, just curious. Certainly if Christians believe that life begins at conception and that the mother should see the birth through then they should be stepping up. I personally, a non-Christian, have come to be an anti-abortionist. Because of Ron Paul. He caused me to rethink at what point life is created and what that means legally.
I think the "Baby Moses law's" that are gaining ground are a step in the right direction. Short term. Relinquishing the children to the state never works out in the long run.

If there were anything the Christian's of America should get behind it should be a total adoption process. The ability to raise children in the Christian faith would offset the decline of Christian moral values in America. Christians bitch that government is creating immoral youth yet here is an instance when they can turn things around in two generations.

I honestly don't see why this is not the number one priority for the Christian churches of America.
 
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So are you basically telling me my choices are to accept legalized murder of unborn children, or legalized murder by police officers?

I'm not telling you that at all.....

I'm merely pointing out the lunacy of trying to have governments agents regulate plants or chemicals.

If you grow castor beans and refine them you can make an extremely deadly neurotoxin, just like if you grow poppies and refine them you can make heroin, ephedra-meth and on and on and on.......The "crime" that triggers enforcement may not logically be possession or refinement of plants or chemicals but the inappropriate and harmful use of the compound....

Argue that premise and you might find us closer to agreement....
 
Should do and done are two different things. We are not in a free market. So now what?

As I said, just curious. Certainly if Christians believe that life begins at conception and that the mother should see the birth through then they should be stepping up. I personally, a non-Christian, have come to be an anti-abortionist. Because of Ron Paul. He caused me to rethink at what point life is created and what that means legally.
I think the "Baby Moses law's" that are gaining ground are a step in the right direction. Short term. Relinquishing to children to the state never works out in the long run.

If there were anything the Christian's of America should get behind it should be a total adoption process. The ability to raise children in the Christian faith would offset the decline of Christian moral values in America.

I honestly don't see why this is not the number one priority for the Christian churches of America.

Well, the number one priority of Christian churches should be to share the gospel, but otherwise I agree with the above. I wish it were emphasized more.
 
I'm not telling you that at all.....

I'm merely pointing out the lunacy of trying to have governments agents regulate plants or chemicals.

If you grow castor beans and refine them you can make an extremely deadly neurotoxin, just like if you grow poppies and refine them you can make heroin, ephedra-meth and on and on and on.......The "crime" that triggers enforcement may not logically be possession or refinement of plants or chemicals but the inappropriate and harmful use of the compound....

Argue that premise and you might find us closer to agreement....

I think I'm close to agreement with you. I'm not for government preemptively punishing people for doing stuff they haven't yet done yet.

Heroin and meth have uses that, while I would consider them sinful, shouldn't be crimes. Their possession and use aren't always linked to criminal activity (I'd say according to Biblical law but we can even say pro-life libertarianism, which is close enough for my purposes).

On the other hand, even the prototypical anarcho-capitalist Murray Rothbard argued that nuclear weapons should be illegal because they could ONLY be used to commit murder. They were to be banned under Rothbard's logic not because they could be used to commit great harm, but because there is nothing else you could do with them. Even owning a nuclear weapon is a threat against all of your neighbors, and thus a crime.

But that doesn't mean nuclear power plants or uranium should be banned. Yes, these things can be dangerous but they also have acceptable and legitimate uses, so you don't ban them just because they might be used by wicked men to do evil.

So, if something could ONLY be used as an abortificacent, I don't see why its existance should be allowed. Yes, people will still trade it on the black market. That's life. People need to get used to the fact that government isn't going to catch every murderer and that its unacceptable to turn the entire nation into an orwellian nightmare to make sure it does.

But that doesn't mean murder gets legalized. It means that if there are witnesses or other strong evidence it is punished just like any other crime.

Now, if something could be used as an abortificacent but also had a legitimate use, that would be a different matter.
 
Good for Walker, and screw the Daily Kos, a bunch of lunatics with an endless thirst for innocent blood.
 
Gosh, that couldn't possibly backfire, could it? What'll we have? Pregnancy police? Period police?

Simply from a political point of view, people who would have the gov't get involved in such matters are ridiculous. How many thousands of pages of regulations would come from having a law? How many women would be in prison for miscarriages beyond their control? Does this extend to mandates of prenatal vitamins? Would a woman be found guilty if she can't afford the vitamins?

I came to being anti-abortion, not because of fear of our gov't, but because I do now find it unethical, philosophically. If you truly want to change hearts and minds, attempting to do so via threat of death/prison/fines/whatever will not be a long-term solution. It never has been and never will be.
 
Gosh, that couldn't possibly backfire, could it? What'll we have? Pregnancy police? Period police?

Simply from a political point of view, people who would have the gov't get involved in such matters are ridiculous. How many thousands of pages of regulations would come from having a law? How many women would be in prison for miscarriages beyond their control? Does this extend to mandates of prenatal vitamins? Would a woman be found guilty if she can't afford the vitamins?

I came to being anti-abortion, not because of fear of our gov't, but because I do now find it unethical, philosophically. If you truly want to change hearts and minds, attempting to do so via threat of death/prison/fines/whatever will not be a long-term solution. It never has been and never will be.

+rep. This.
 
You cant be morally opposed to abortion without wanting to ban it unless you are a strict pacifist. But if you are a strict-NAP adherent, the only way you can say that abortion should be legal is if you don't believe its murder. People who say "Abortion is murder but it should be legal" are being logically absurd.
 
You cant be morally opposed to abortion without wanting to ban it unless you are a strict pacifist. But if you are a strict-NAP adherent, the only way you can say that abortion should be legal is if you don't believe its murder. People who say "Abortion is murder but it should be legal" are being logically absurd.

Incorrect. It is philosophically consistent with keeping the gov't out of our personal business. The easy road (aka gov't involvement) is the wrong one, change hearts and minds. Abortion, like drug use and prostitution, have been around for thousands of years--all may be a pox on humanity, but nothing will change if your go-to is government force.

Our government kills indiscriminately--is this who you want to enforce morality?
 
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