Schiff's response to the attacks by Mish

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Jan 7, 2009
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My popularity on television and the internet has led a very small money manager to use his popular financial blog to promote his fledgling business by attacking the recent poor performance of my long-term investment strategy. The post is causing quite a stir and compels me to provide some badly needed context.

To achieve his ends, this individual has distorted much of what I have been saying and writing, and has twisted the facts to support his own preconceived conclusion. In essence, his piece is nothing more than an overt advertisement (and a highly deceptive one at that) to use my popularity to advance his career. In so doing he has given my critics, particularly some who have been embarrassed by their roles in the "Peter Schiff was Right" video, their moments of retribution. In addition, some members of the press who have never been among my greatest fans are seizing the opportunity to discredit me as well.

The crux of the blogger's arguments are that my beliefs in "decoupling, hyperinflation, and that the dollar is going to zero" have been completely discredited by the events of 2008, and that the resulting investment losses suffered by my clients last year confirms the fatal flaws in my approach.

In addition to mischaracterizing many of my beliefs, he also is confusing short-term market fluctuations with long-term economic trends.

First of all, the hyper inflation issue is a straw man at best. While I often talk about the possibility of hyper inflation, I have always said that it would be a worse-case scenario that would play out over many years. The fact that it did not appear in the first year of the economic crash (2008) does not invalidate my position. I have always maintained that this worst-case scenario will likely be avoided by what will ultimately be a dramatic shift in policy once our leaders come to their senses. However, until then the dollar will likely lose a substantial portion of its value.

Second, I never said that the dollar would go to zero, either in 2008 or any year thereafter. I have said that in the event of hyper inflation the dollar's value would approach zero. My actual forecast in my book "Crash Proof" was that the Dollar Index would fall to 40 (currently about 85), with a realistic worst case scenario, assuming very high but not hyper inflation, of 20 or lower.

Third, the blogger points out that because the decoupling theory (foreign economies improving while the U.S. falters) that I wrote about in "Crash Proof" has yet to occur, that the theory itself was ridiculous. In my book I wrote that this process would not occur overnight, that initially our creditors would come to our aid, and in so doing our problems would become manifest abroad. I wrote that it would take time for the world to realize that what had been decoupled from the economic train was not the engine but the caboose. In fact, that is precisely the way it is playing out.

Chapter Ten of "Crash Proof" is specifically focused on the need to keep funds liquid to take advantage of the buying opportunity that would initially develop once our stock market began its collapse. I specifically mentioned that when U.S. stocks began to fall, we could expect sympathetic declines overseas. While I did not know the precise timing of those events, I advised readers to prepare.

I did not expect the huge dollar rally of 2008. But to discredit my long-term view of the dollar based on an eight month move is absurd. So while I believed that a weak dollar would cushion the temporary decline I expected in foreign stocks, a strong dollar ended up exacerbating it. In the meantime, I believed that the high dividends these stocks were paying would make it easier to ride out any correction. The problem was that the dollar fell so far leading up to the crisis (in 2005-2007) that by the time the crisis finally erupted the dollar was poised for a bounce.

Central to the argument that my investment thesis is wrong is the belief that the crisis is over or that the recent trends will continue until it is. But the crisis is just beginning and the movements thus far in the dollar, commodities, and foreign stocks, are mere head fakes. Once the speculators have been flushed from the markets, the underlying long-term trends I have been following should return in earnest.

To illustrate the flaws in my investment strategy the blogger has posted a client's statement that shows a loss in excess of 60%. In addition, he claims to know of other Euro Pacific clients who have experienced similar losses. The inference of course is that most, or all, of my clients must have suffered similar losses, and the existence of such losses proves that I am wrong. In fact, some have gone a step further, claiming that such losses prove that I am a fraud.

First let's deal with the one client's account. I have been following several key investment themes for the past ten years. The basis for my strategy is that recent U.S. prosperity has been false, and that the consequences of the bursting of our bubble economy would ultimately play out in a substantial decline in the value of the U.S. dollar, higher commodity prices, the re-monetization of gold, and foreign equities substantially outperforming U.S. markets. From an investment perspective, those themes played out extremely well in the eight years from 2000-2007. Recently we have seen a sharp, and I believe temporary, reversal of these trends. Those that came late to the party (at least based on where we are today) now have to ride out a particularly difficult correction.

For example, the account in question belongs to the son of a long-standing Euro Pacific client, who is still adding funds to his accounts. Without specially commenting on the performance of the father's account, it must have been compelling enough to finally persuade the son to come on board himself in early 2008. However, as is often the case, by the time he came on board, foreign stocks and commodities were about to sell off, and the dollar was about to begin its unexpected rally. Following such a sharp correction, the son now regrets his decision and must blame me for my part in helping him make it.

Perhaps as a stockbroker I should have persuaded the son to wait for a correction. However, while this clearly would have been the right call with the full benefit of hind-sight, it was certainly not as clear given the information I had at the time. However, I never held myself out to be a market timer. My advice was always geared to long-term investors. Given the thousands of clients that I have, and the large number who joined near the recent dollar peak and market tops, it's no wonder that a few have contacted this blogger to complain; especially since he has actively sought them out. Of course, the fact that the overwhelming majority of my clients are not complaining, to him or anyone else for that matter, says a lot more about what is really going on.

To the extent that the long-term trends I have been following continue, I am confident that even those whose short-term timing was bad will still do well in time. This is especially true if they take advantage of this pull back by adding to their accounts, either with new funds or by re-investing their dividends. However, to examine the effectiveness of my investment strategy immediately following a major correction by looking only at those accounts who adopted the strategy at the previous peak is unfair and distortive.

Since I have been advising investors to follow these trends for ten years, I will leave it to the public to draw their own conclusions as to how long-term followers of my strategy have fared. However, for those who only recently adopted my approach in 2007 or 2008, the road has been a lot bumpier than they or I thought it would be when they climbed on board. Yet if these long-term trends re-emerge, though the journey may be different than planned, the ultimate destination will remain the same.

The blogger in question implies that all of my clients are down by levels similar to the account he cites. He has asked me to refute his allegations by providing broader performance figures for more clients. But, since Euro Pacific Capital is a brokerage firm and not a Registered Investment Advisor, I am prohibited by regulators from providing any details on the investment performance achieved by my clients. The blogger in question makes his challenge knowing full well that I am legally prevented from accepting it. He then uses my failure to refute his false claim as validating its accuracy.

In addition, to look only at the performance of foreign stocks, while ignoring other aspects of my investment strategy only tells part of the story. What about gold, foreign bonds, short positions in financials, home builders and subprime mortgages (or merely avoiding long exposure to those sectors), or other investments people have made, either at Euro Pacific or elsewhere based on my insights? What about dividends earned, or gains realized on closed positions?

Mainstream economists, journalists, and investment professionals have never liked my message and have never resisted the temptation to shoot the messenger. When my investment strategies were performing well, I got little credit for it. Instead, all the attention was focused on the apparent failure of my dire economic predictions to materialize. Now that the economy is collapsing along the lines that I correctly forecast, criticism is being focused on the recent poor performance of my investment strategy (a fact that I have never tried to hide). Of course by the time my investment strategy is once again in step with my economic forecasts, an event that I believe will occur sooner than most people think, it will likely be too late for most people to do adopt it.

My critics have often referred to me as a stopped clock. I believe that the accusation is best leveled at the accusers. Having been wrong for so long, they are now enjoying their brief moment in the sun. They should enjoy it while it lasts. For now, they are creating fodder for some future "Peter Schiff was Right" piece where those who now criticize my investment performance will look just as foolish as those who once criticized my economic forecasts.

Link:

http://marketoracle.co.uk/Article8564.html
 
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I thought that this was a good point:

In addition, to look only at the performance of foreign stocks, while ignoring other aspects of my investment strategy only tells part of the story. What about gold, foreign bonds, short positions in financials, home builders and subprime mortgages (or merely avoiding long exposure to those sectors), or other investments people have made, either at Euro Pacific or elsewhere based on my insights? What about dividends earned, or gains realized on closed positions?


He never advises his clients to pull all their money in a EuroPac account. So you do have to take into account the gold/silver that they bought, the real estate they would have sold (because he warned it was going to collapse, thus saving them tons of money), and everything else he advises.
 
Fcken spot on. I was waiting for this. 5 stars.

He's always been long term. Value investing is like that. Short term is SPECULATION.

:)
 
ZZZZZZZZIP OUCH!!! That is the sound of Peter Schiff's critics zipping up their fly too fast on their appendages :D

Lookin forward to that next "Peter Schiff was Right" video hehe. . . no wonder Ron chose him as his economic advisor :cool:
 
ZZZZZZZZIP OUCH!!! That is the sound of Peter Schiff's critics zipping up their fly too fast on their appendages :D

Lookin forward to that next "Peter Schiff was Right" video hehe. . . no wonder Ron chose him as his economic advisor :cool:

While I agree with a lot of Schiff's assertions I think he is wrong on some nevertheless I would not recommend urinating in his direction as something may get hurt.

The blogger in question implies that all of my clients are down by levels similar to the account he cites. He has asked me to refute his allegations by providing broader performance figures for more clients. But, since Euro Pacific Capital is a brokerage firm and not a Registered Investment Advisor, I am prohibited by regulators from providing any details on the investment performance achieved by my clients. The blogger in question makes his challenge knowing full well that I am legally prevented from accepting it. He then uses my failure to refute his false claim as validating its accuracy.

If Mish did this intentionally as Schiff suggests then it reflects extremely poorly on the quality of Mish's argument. If Mish did it ignorantly it may be even worse and reflect on possible malpractice should one use Mish's services. Either way it was not a wise move by Mish.

I also do not think it is proper for Mish to frame the issue to performance only in 2008. Narrowing the time period is too persuasive for a purportedly objective post.

Of course, this is a common tactic of Mish in his posts to write persuasively and pretend to be writing objectively which I think is a disservice to one's readers. Either write persuasively or objectively but do not write persuasively while pretending to be objective. If you try that type of garbage in court then the judge is going to get really pissed at you and you will develop a bad reputation with the rest of the lawyers.
 
I'm always impressed in how he deals with his critics. Shows them for the asses they are. Every time. :D:D:D:D:D
 
I read the response to this rebuttal before I read the rebuttal itself. Mish didnt respond at all. How pitiful. He merely parrots the line that "Peter was wrong in the short term, not that he's wrong in the long term or that he even SAID his predictions were short term to begin with" over and over again. The fact that this Mish guy refutes himself repeatedly like this shows how desperate these people are.
 
Although Schiff has been correct about the bubble, he has been incorrect about where to run thus far. The other risk with this world wide depression is that other countries devalue as fast or faster than we do, then gold is the only place to hide.

This debate is not just b/w Mish and Peter, within the Austrian community- look at Gary North who predicted deflation 10 months ago as well.

Economics is often like that, competing forces that are unmeasurable so you cannot be sure where the game ends.

I'm happy our dollar hasn't collapsed yet, though I feel sorry for Peter.

BTW Peter may be getting more heat soon.

Anyone gambling in this market can have fun, but otherwise everyone should just be hedged imho.
 
They are fucking humiliated Peter, what did you expect from these fucking keynsians except more bullshit?
 
Athan, perhaps read a bit from Mish first before jumping to conclusions.
The post he just put up has a nice little quote from Murray Rothbard.
He's been true to Austrian economics 99% of his blogs.
I've been reading Austrian stuff for 20 years.

He's giving the fastest Austrian responses on the web that I've found.
Anyone who reads here should be reading there as well.

Whether or not he should attack Schiff is another question...

Open your mind... let the truth flow in
 
Oh and by the way Athan, Mish did publicly support Ron Paul in the primaries, so, per your quote in the other thread, "he would be idolized here too!!"

Not saying anyone should blindly follow someone else though, make the decisions for yourself.
 
Oh and by the way Athan, Mish did publicly support Ron Paul in the primaries, so, per your quote in the other thread, "he would be idolized here too!!"

Not saying anyone should blindly follow someone else though, make the decisions for yourself.

I use to read Mish before all this incident (not anymore) and I think I read him talking about money velocity wich austrian deny. Mish takes some austrian views but its not an austrian himself (nothing wrong with that). Correct me if wrong.

The problem with Mish, and why I quit reading his blog, is that he is dishonest and lame. Peter was wrong about the dollar rally and the timing (or he knew but decided to hide because it was the best for his company interest, who knows). He has acknoledge that he was wrong. The point is that Mish made an article and instead of pointing Peter faults in an honorable maner, he decided to be manipulative, dishonest and quite lame. For me, this incident discredits Mish, and shows he is just some jelous guy who will do anything to get clients, and I dont trust people like that. There are a lot of economist that called the dollar rally, I can stick with any of them, wich are a lot more honest than Mish. Mish act was lame.

Hugo
 
I suspect a lot of people here in RPF support Schiff because they have bought into the inflation/gold/precious metals story which, for now, has been clearly proven wrong. Down the line, who knows?

Certainly the line of reasoning people like Schiff (and Jim Rogers even more so) make have some soundness to them. But economics is a tricky field where sound reasoning does not necessarily count in the short or medium term.

Now, if you listen to the reasoning of [current] deflationists like Mish and Gary North, their arguments are even more sophisticated and make as much (or more) sense as anything I have heard coming out of Schiff or Rogers. Moreover, these two have been vindicated by recent events. I tend to trust their judgement more, because I do not get the impression that these people are blind deflationists (unlike Schiff and countless gold bugs out there who seem to be just hoping to be right the same way a broken watch is right twice a day).

If and when an inflationary bias presents itself in the economic environment, I fully expect North and Mish to detect and make the call for such.
 
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If and when an inflationary bias presents itself in the economic environment, I fully expect North and Mish to detect and make the call for such.

Its allredy starting. But yeah, only future will tell.

Thanks for pointing Gary North, Ill check him. Hopefully he will have more class than Mish.

Hugo
 
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