Saw a Ron Paul 2012 billboard today!

[georgiaboy]

Too many words for the American voter.

agreed - trying to get the point across.
"Doing What Must Be Done"
"Doing What's Needed Now"
"Walking the Talk"

 

[georgiaboy]

"I told you so"

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Logical fallacy for several reasons...


1- By the time one starts the victory party the election is already over, and there are no more votes to be gained

2- Reelection does not typically require as much force, money, effort, etc as election does because of the power of incumbency. Of course one doesn't want to dump one's remaining warchest on a victory party, but one doesn't also have to worry about gaining votes and thus acquiring funds for a while afterwards


There are other reasons too which are not as easy to explain

Uh Matt, which exact logical fallacy?

Regardless, it seems you are ignoring the primary point to attempt to steer the discussion... The Victory Party part was simply an illustrative device highlighting an inconsistency in your tactless contributions to this thread. Your entire thrust here seems to be that any expenditure not directly used for GOTV is wasteful. The Victory Party excuses you list above just don't gibe with your thrust here...

Regarding the VP issue, are you saying there is some arbitrary date where spending donors money on things that will not get votes is acceptable? And as a follow up, do you expect everyone to agree with you on when this date is?

I would say that everyone has individual lines in the sand on what is wasteful, or not. So in the same sense that you feel it is alright to piss on other peoples private expenditures for a campaign that does not even exist by collectively yelling at everyone using your individual line in the sand, I would think you should be alright with me proposing another line in the sand regarding donor money being spent on other things that do not get votes. The way I see it, as far as pure vote getting goes, billboards are quite possibly more effective than victory parties...

Anyway, all I'm really saying with the VP thing is that if you are going to be an ass and yell at friends, you should be consistent, and have your ducks in a row.

 

[Matt Collins]

You can't vote if you don't know who he is. You can as easily argue that someone who looked into him because of the blimp and later votes for him voted 'because' of the blimp as you can because someone knocked on their door or sent them junk mail. (I throw that stuff out before I even take the mail in.)

No, because targeted marketing (aimed at generating a response) is always more effective than shotgun marketing. This is a known fact. Please buy some marketing books, or study campaign tactics.

 

[Matt Collins]

Why are you calling a privately rented/owned billboard a "waste of funds"?

There are no funds, there is no campaign!

I won't disagree that during the campaign, roadside endeavors might be less effective than targeted houses, but Ron isn't running (present tense). This can't hurt. What is the person/people responsible for the board supposed to do for the non-existent campaign?

Start a CFL county chapter in his area if there isn't one already, send mailers to likely Republican voters about the CFL, or Ron, or how local politicians have voted. Building an organization of activists on the ground so that when Ron does announce, everyone is already ready to go.

 

[sailingaway]

No, because targeted marketing (aimed at generating a response) is always more effective than shotgun marketing. This is a known fact. Please buy some marketing books, or study campaign tactics.

Matt, you can make statistics say anything you want. Obviously, there are trends. But have you noticed how many times you said to people on here 'you are not the typical voter'?

Maybe RP voters need to be approached Atypically.....

And people are going to do what they want anyhow.

 

[Matt Collins]

Matt is quite vocal on this issue, where it is individual initiative, yet where money could actually be better spent he would like to see Judge Nap get paid even more than 25,000$ to do one speaking engagement which increases the costs of tickets to would be / potential supporters. I think Matt has his values mixed up to be honest.

Events like this have their place and a purpose, raising an organization is one of them as well as training the organization (just not during campaign time for big dollars).

To bring people out one often needs someone that will act as an attention getter. They are worth their money.

 

[Matt Collins]

Maybe RP voters need to be approached Atypically.....

And people are going to do what they want anyhow.

And how many states did that approach win?

 

[Matt Collins]

Your entire thrust here seems to be that any expenditure not directly used for GOTV is wasteful. The Victory Party excuses you list above just don't gibe with your thrust here...

If you can't understand the differences as I've explained in my previous posts, then I give up.

Regarding the VP issue, are you saying there is some arbitrary date where spending donors money on things that will not get votes is acceptable? And as a follow up, do you expect everyone to agree with you on when this date is?

Yeah, pretty much the day or 2 before the election all major expenses are finalized.

The way I see it, as far as pure vote getting goes, billboards are quite possibly more effective than victory parties...

The election is already over at that point, there are no more votes to be received for along time afterward. The VP has a purpose -primarily MEDIA and secondarily a reward to the volunteers and staff!

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

If you can't understand the differences as I've explained in my previous posts, then I give up.

Oh, I think I understand what you are saying, yet I keep trying to speak to a different point. One involving morale and motivation and simple name recognition...

Yeah, pretty much the day or 2 before the election all major expenses are finalized.

I'll keep trying... And how long before the election are expenses that do not get votes acceptable? One year? two years? Three? When is the date your marketing expertise demands? And I'll repeat the follow-up, do you expect everyone to agree with you on when this date is?

The election is already over at that point, there are no more votes to be received for along time afterward. The VP has a purpose -primarily MEDIA and secondarily a reward to the volunteers and staff!

Unless the candidate is retiring, the "election" is never over. I'd think you would know that.

In the case of these billboards, it can be said that the campaign has not yet started, making your complaints here moot. And perhaps the private individual who spent an unknown sum thought this billboard might inspire many of those who supported RP in '08 to come back to the r3VOLution; building morale, to help convince RP to run for election... The fact remains that until RP announces, there is NO campaign for you to be yelling at people over.

Back to the VPs, you say they have two primary purposes. I don't see Media being a big reason and don't remember being told that at any of the Campaign Management classes I've taken... I would think that the Earned Media of a VP is inconsequential and down the list of reasons to spend donated money on something that doesn't get votes. I notice you list it first... I will add that earned media is just a form of advertising, with as wide a target audience as billboards...

At the end, you finally touch on something I find relevant. "As a reward for volunteers and staff". In other words, for morale and motivation. In saying this you agree that morale and motivation are important for political campaigns, what you seem to be missing is that many people are saying these type threads and events satisfy their personal need for morale and motivation. Yet you seem to think it is OK to rain on their parade in this case, while making lame excuses in the case of VPs. You are being inconsistent and unreasonable, and I find that disappointing.

 

[Matt Collins]

I'll keep trying... And how long before the election are expenses that do not get votes acceptable? One year? two years? Three? When is the date your marketing expertise demands? And I'll repeat the follow-up, do you expect everyone to agree with you on when this date is?

Sorry, my bad, I misread your post.


Well people should save their money so that they can max out to the official campaign. But prior to that, they should do things that build their organization locally. Billboards don't really do that.

And perhaps the private individual who spent an unknown sum thought this billboard might inspire many of those who supported RP in '08 to come back to the r3VOLution; building morale

Assuming the guy paid market price for the billboard, there are a lot more cost effective ways to do that, which is kind of my entire point.

I will add that earned media is just a form of advertising, with as wide a target audience as billboards...

Well two things, 1 the election is over so acquiring votes isn't possible at that point in time, and secondly the PR generated by a VP event is MUCH more targeted than a billboard.

 

[sailingaway]

Apparently they were paid for by Dr. Marc Carducci. The billboards, that is.

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/155191#comments

 

[evilfunnystuff]

Collins you seemed to think this billboard for Rand IN FLORIDA was pretty cool
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showth...oard-Space-For-Rand-Paul!&highlight=billboard

Also you claim you have won electionS by canvasing but you have only won 1 as far as I know, yet you claim you haven't canvased in your own area. So am i right to assume you have never won an election by canvassing.

PS someone very important who I cant' name told me... sometimes, you'd be better served keeping your mouth shut.

 

[TomKat]

And Ron Paul needs to shoot a 30min infomercial.
And it must be aired a lot like that "set it and forget it" rotisserie machine.
The fact that I remember "set it and forget it" is exactly why Ron Paul needs an infomercial.

Pure genius. This needs to happen this time. I still can't get this out of my head 15 years later. "you could have a clambake at the beach" from the Red Devil outdoor cooker that apparently could clambake clams at the beach or cook cakes in the woods as well. Someone else here had to have heard that one.

 

[Matt Collins]

SOURCE:
​

http://ronpaultrainer.blogspot.com/2011/04/introduction-to-campaigning-for-ron.html

Campaigning for Ron Paul 2012


So, do you want to be involved to some degree in the upcoming Ron Paul campaign?
If so, here are the basics that you need to learn and don't skip the 6 Essential Rules
of campaigning at the bottom of this note.



1. This campaign will not be won on facebook, gasp!
You will need to get involved with your local Republican party, another gasp!
After all, you will be campaigning first for the Republican nomination. Hence,
you will need to convince actual blue haired old ladies, who only watch Fox News,
that they should vote for the Champion of the Constitution. Yes, it can be done.



2. Find or start your local Meetup group for Ron Paul.
Go explore here: http://www.meetup.com/
(Careful, there might be several groups--some defunct.)



Events

I won't bore you too much in this note, but there are 3 major events you need to plan for.
They involve traveling to Iowa and maybe even New Hampshire. While you probably won't
be able to vote for Dr. Paul at these events. The friends you will meet and the lessons you
will learn about campaigning will change your life. If you plan now, you can ask off work
and adjust your schedule. Don't worry about food and lodging--there will be so many
projects for funding all of that.



Make plans now to attend the Iowa Straw Poll this coming August 13th.

August 13, 2011 - Ames, IA
Ames Straw Poll
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ames_Straw_Poll



Later your help will be put into practice during the Iowa Caucus in January? of 2012 or
in New Hampshire. If you are serious about this, just plan now to spend Christmas in
Iowa or New Hampshire.



Okay, here's the important part. The key to being a good campaigner for a political
candidate involves cultivating a basic understanding of marketing and sales. By the way,
it is possible to keep your moral integrity through this process--but it is a tricky, no doubt.
You should never lie and misrepresent the truth--but this doesn't mean you bury your head
in the sand and not learn how TO SELL.



Canvassing is the process by which you interact with an individual, qualify that they are
a likely voter and persuade them to support the candidate you are representing.
The overarching principle to learn is to never show your cards before they show
you their cards. You need to know how to best approach each individual you speak with.



Here are 6 rules to guide you when selling your candidate:

1. Don't make your issue their issue.
2. Don't get into debates.
3. Don't go down rabbit holes.
4. Don't be afraid to say, "I don't know."
5. Don't trash-talk other candidates.
6. When you make a sale, stop selling.

I could write a couple paragraphs on each of these points, but I'll leave it at this for now...
And, wow, number 4 is profound! I'm considering adding a final step of "asking for a
commitment." If you've sold someone on your idea or candidate, you need to involve them
in an action that they can take to fulfill their verbal commitment.
This list was inspired by a video about campaigning for Ron Paul found here:

http://youtu.be/Ib1EEFzRqW4

That's all for tonight.

Aaron
Contact him here: [email protected]