Saw a Ron Paul 2012 billboard today!

[sailingaway]

Well the trick is to work the areas that he has a chance to win, go after the low hanging fruit, not the impossible neighborhoods (or states for that matter).

My point is I don't think they are impossible, but need to be reached differently, and even the areas that won't block vote for Ron do provide donors. These areas are impacted by billboards and creative supporter events that are reported in the news or just capture the imagination. I am saying we need to do the walking and targeting. YOU are saying we should completely give up on everything else to the point where you are irritated if people are thrilled about a billboard. That is what I disagree with.

And as for those impossible states, what % of Ron and Rands DONORS were from California and New York?

 

[Romulus]

So a billboard in a RIGHT area is positive? Its not that billboards are bad, its that misdirected, vague advertising can be wasteful.

In the RIGHT areas, billboards, along with, other signage, that carries a consistent brand message, is crucial to name recognition.

A complete, balanced package is the key, not any one certain thing.

 

[VegasPatriot]

Yes Matt, targeted marketing works. So I take it you think the only target is republican voters. See, that's where I disagree... right now my target is everyone. Democrats, Republicans and people who have never voted. Right now we must convince non republicans to become Ron Paul republicans. After the deadline is over to change political parties is the time to target republicans.

And I can't wait till we do another Ron Paul on the Las Vegas strip event!

 

[sailingaway]

Yes Matt, targeted marketing works. So I take it you think the only target is republican voters. See, that's where I disagree... right now my target is everyone. Democrats, Republicans and people who have never voted. Right now we must convince non republicans to become Ron Paul republicans. After the deadline is over to change political parties is the time to target republicans.

And I can't wait till we do another Ron Paul on the Las Vegas strip event!

And that is a HUGE point, these events become killer videos and the presence of all that grass root activity is exciting, no question.

I have forwarded a TON of videos to friends in the last two years, which have footage of various Ron Paul group events. They are good to get someone's attention in areas where there ISN'T as much RP activity.

 

[Matt Collins]

Yes Matt, targeted marketing works. So I take it you think the only target is republican voters. See, that's where I disagree... right now my target is everyone. Democrats, Republicans and people who have never voted. Right now we must convince non republicans to become Ron Paul republicans. After the deadline is over to change political parties is the time to target republicans.

But that's very ineffective for actually getting people to vote for Ron. The average Republican voter is much more likely to vote for Ron than the average Democrat.

My point is I don't think they are impossible, but need to be reached differently, and even the areas that won't block vote for Ron do provide donors. These areas are impacted by billboards and creative supporter events that are reported in the news or just capture the imagination.

But that doesn't win votes. The effort and money there could be used much more efficiently if it were used for targeting likely Republican voters.

And as for those impossible states, what % of Ron and Rands DONORS were from California and New York?

But that doesn't equate to votes.

 

[sailingaway]

But that's very ineffective for actually getting people to vote for Ron. The average Republican voter is much more likely to vote for Ron than the average Democrat.

Did you know Ron is hands down tops with INDEPENDENTS of any GOP candidate polled for the presidential election? And way ahead of Obama, as well. PPP polled independents and so did Rasmussen in its head to head poll against Obama. Taking ONLY GOP, Ron was back in the pack, but when you added in independents, well, that is how you got to Rasmussen's poll showing Ron at 41% and Obama at 42%.

And now there are more independents than GOP or Dems.

We NEED those independents to be in the GOP primaries, to win the primary.

I mean, obviously there is getting out the message, gaining incremental support for policies, laying groundwork for other liberty candidates.... but for votes, we need independents to register GOP.

 

[Matt Collins]

Did you know Ron is hands down tops with INDEPENDENTS of any GOP candidate polled for the presidential election? And way ahead of Obama, as well. PPP polled independents and so did Rasmussen in its head to head poll against Obama. Taking ONLY GOP, Ron was back in the pack, but when you added in independents, well, that is how you got to Rasmussen's poll showing Ron at 41% and Obama at 42%.

And now there are more independents than GOP or Dems.

We NEED those independents to be in the GOP primaries, to win the primary.

You're right! And notice I never said anything about independents (which in many states don't matter due to closed primaries).

 

[sailingaway]

You're right! And notice I never said anything about independents (which in many states don't matter due to closed primaries).

The first half of your sentence doesn't seem to fit with your paranthetical. They matter if they REGISTER GOP before the cut off and that is what general, un-GOP targeted advertising such as billboards can do at this stage --raise interest for people to want to register GOP.

 

[Matt Collins]

They matter if they REGISTER GOP before the cut off and that is what general, un-GOP targeted advertising such as billboards can do at this stage --raise interest for people to want to register GOP.

Yes and VERY few people will ever do this. Our campaign had the most people register just to vote for a single candidate no doubt. But again, the people that will actually register R just to vote for Ron is not anywhere close enough to make much of a difference. It's all about inertia. Again, the low hanging fruit, especially in closed primary states, are the likely Republican voters. They are the easiest to reach and where targeting will pay off the most. This is basic marketing 101, not rocket science.

 

[sailingaway]

Yes and VERY few people will ever do this. Our campaign had the most people register just to vote for a single candidate no doubt. But again, the people that will actually register R just to vote for Ron is not anywhere close enough to make much of a difference. It's all about inertia. Again, the low hanging fruit, especially in closed primary states, are the likely Republican voters. They are the easiest to reach and where targeting will pay off the most. This is basic marketing 101, not rocket science.

I'm really not sure 'inertia' is the identifying factor amongst Ron Paul supporters and would be supporters.

 

[VegasPatriot]

Yes and VERY few people will ever do this. Our campaign had the most people register just to vote for a single candidate no doubt. But again, the people that will actually register R just to vote for Ron is not anywhere close enough to make much of a difference. It's all about inertia. Again, the low hanging fruit, especially in closed primary states, are the likely Republican voters. They are the easiest to reach and where targeting will pay off the most. This is basic marketing 101, not rocket science.

The whole idea is to get as many RP republicans to become delegates to the state conventions, right? Then why would you limit your target to only republicans so soon? That makes no sense to me... if anything we should specifically target anti war democrats to switch parties for the simple reason there is only one anti war republican. And you admit that independents could be a valuable source of new republicans. Don't discount more than half the populace before we get started. You say very few will register as republicans simply to vote for RP... I say BS. In southern Nevada we had hundreds, if not thousands of new RP republicans and they were very active (I know, I was one of them). If our convention was conducted properly, we would have sweep all the Nevada delegates. I say target big now, and focus that target to only republicans the closer we get to our caucus or primary deadlines.

 

[MRoCkEd]

Matt Collins is still ranting against grassroots projects. Remember this?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?40432

Matt did have that one right...

He's also right that billboards are a very ineffective way of getting votes, though they may serve other purposes.

 

[muzzled dogg]

!!!!!!!!!!

 

[ronpaulhawaii]

Matt did have that one right...

He's also right that billboards are a very ineffective way of getting votes, though they may serve other purposes.

Well, I guess I should have clicked the link. Mea Culpa.

That still does not change my disappointment in seeing grassroots initiative being shat upon and an inspiring motivating thread derailed. VP said it best, "Don't drive them away." Of course Matt is right that billboards are ineffective for GOTV, but it is these other purposes you mention that seem to be missing from his argument. I'm pretty much in agreement that we need to do a much better job at traditional GOTV this time around, but the tact I am seeing here for bringing that about leaves much to be desired.

Different tactics are appropo for different areas of the country. Billboards work (for name recognition) in the desert better than they do elsewhere. In other areas, it is almost a requirement for large signs to be put up (Ask Glen Bradley).

One size will never fit all

It is quite early to be complaining about where people choose to spend their money, and we don't even know the circumstances of this billboard. The one we visited making the documentary didn't cost squat. Scrap plywood and paint... The structure was donated. Hell for all we know some foreigner "paid" for this one. We just don't know, so coming in here and pissing on others enthusiasm is just wrong.

Others here are making other valuable points regarding building and maintaining the grassroots base. Victory parties don't get votes either, and some would consider them wasteful of donated money that could be used for the re-election campaign... But we don't see Matt complaining about them, do we?

 

[LibertyRevolution]

Yes this is exciting, but it's also a waste of money!

Billboards don't win elections.

Door to door, mailings, phone banking, and TV/radio ads win elections.

The money for a billboard could be much better spent to directly identify and target voters.

I disagree with you on this. Where to begin...

Door to door...Nothing says creepy like you coming up to my door telling me to convert.

Mail .. All political mail we receive goes directly into the trash.
I asked my friends and family, they say they may look at the pictures on the outside, then they go into the trash usually unread.
So to me, I see mailers are a huge waste of money.
We laughed about at the amount of mailers from McMillions and how much it must have cost her.
All Strait into the trash.

Phonebanking ... We have caller ID, As do most people I know.
We don't answer telemarketers/phonebank calls.
Receiving many messages on my answering machine from McCain last year made me want to vote for him even less...
So annoying messages to delete and annoying robocalls are total fail.

Radio ..this is the age of mp3, who the hell listens to commercial radio?
And if you are somehow stuck with only radio, who doesn't change the channel when a commercial comes on?

I like billboards. Billboards are huge. Lots of people see them.
You pass them everyday going to work.
They are short but powerful messages.
Messages that stick in your head.
Come up with like 20 different board with different short statements.
Stuff like:
Ron Paul - For peace in our time.
Ron Paul - 2008 was just a warm up.
Ron Paul - The federal in "federal reserve" is no more federal than in "federal express".
Ron Paul - We just marched in, We can just come home.
Ron Paul - For life without the IRS

Then rent every board in the cities and put them up.
But you have to rent every board you can your hands on.
If he has a board everywhere, it will make he seems like a front runner.
I mean if everywhere you look its Ron Paul. The guy must have something going on.


NOW TV I AGREE WITH YOU, TV WINS ELECTIONS
NEED TV. TONS OF TV.
If my local pizza shop can be on every other commercial break on a 4 hour block of the discovery channel, why the hell cant Ron Paul.
Why is TV not bought through local cable channels by Ron Paul state headquarters.
Advertising on cable this way would be much cheaper that trying to buy national coverage.
And we need TV to win. So we must do this. With good ads. Not hes catchin' on...
And Ron Paul needs to shoot a 30min infomercial.
And it must be aired a lot like that "set it and forget it" rotisserie machine.
The fact that I remember "set it and forget it" is exactly why Ron Paul needs an infomercial.

Oh, and Go Ron Paul billboards go!
Keep up the good work!

 

[JoshLowry]

Radio ..this is the age of mp3, who the hell listens to commercial radio?
And if you are somehow stuck with only radio, who doesn't change the channel when a commercial comes on?

People that vote.

 

[Agorism]

Saw this in hot topics

 

[txaslftist]

Have you people not learned ANYTHING in the last 4 years?!?!


Billboards, signs and blimps might excite people, BUT THEY DON'T WIN ELECTIONS!!!

Beg to differ, sir. The billboards (1) generate name recognition (2) break the ice for an idea (3) lend the candidate legitimacy, and (4) inspire supporters to act.

Do they win an election by themselves? Surely not. But they definitely serve a purpose, and a valid and valuable one.

 

[leipo]

Beg to differ, sir. The billboards (1) generate name recognition (2) break the ice for an idea (3) lend the candidate legitimacy, and (4) inspire supporters to act.

Do they win an election by themselves? Surely not. But they definitely serve a purpose, and a valid and valuable one.

I totally agree. They're also very cost-effective.

 

[low preference guy]

Matt did have that one right...

what? the blimp was awesome. it generated millions of dollars in publicity. ron got lots of interviews thanks to the blimp.