Ron Paul’s “South Was Right” Civil War Speech With Confederate Flag

This is one of the issues where Ron Paul is simply wrong. Slavery and states rights were both major issues factoring up in the Civil War. One cannot say it was exclusively about states rights, because it ignores why some states, such as Mississippi seceded.

I agree the North was more concerned about the preservation of the union, which is actually a rather practical policy. America divided up into a million little nations would have paved way for Europeans or other foreign powers exerting their influence over the Americas. Very possibly we would have been colonized once more, whether it be directly or indirectly through puppet states. Do we have a right to secede? No. The Civil War settled that legally. Although we didn't have a right to secede from Britain, but we did. And of course it was for the better.

Ron Paul is sympathetic to the South, I can understand that. I have a certain respect for the Confederacy and southern heritage as well. But I absolutely detest historical revisionism.

Your reasoning is backwards.


First off the individual powers of states to leave the Union was what the South was about. Slavery was a part of that issue, a but not a separate issue in and of itself. Notice how even in reference to slavery in the Causes of Secession it always comes back to Northern political power violating the Southern states protected constitutional powers. Indeed the even larger problem wasn't one of state's rights but entirely different cultures. The South was an agrarian culture based around conservative agrarian values of limited government and limited taxes. The North was an industrial power who wanted to extend that industrial power for wealth. The cultures were entirely different. More and more the North leaned towards big government whilst the South got more and more focused on small government. The fracturing of the nation upon these vastly different political and cultural lines was not surprising. Especially when Lincoln won the election without winning a single Southern state. It was the straw that broke the camel's back. Since the 1820s and the Nullification Crisis tensions among southerners over northern political and economic dominance had been building. But back to state's rights. It was so large an issue that in the end it may be what killed the Confederacy. When the going got toughest, and Davis wanted more power to force the war, power that Lincoln had usurped, he was denied it. And he refused to just take it crippling his abilities to dedicate the entire Southern economy and culture to total war. The state of Georgia even threatened to secede from the Confederacy at one point. Heck, a county in Georgia threatened to secede from it when it threatened to secede from the CSA. The CSA was crippled by a lack of cohesion and identity as a nation which made secession a crippling ailment.

Also all people have the right to secede. The Declaration is the greatest declaration of the right of secession in all history. Its entire purpose was to justify secession and proclaim that right a right of all people, including Americans.

The Constitution was formed by states who voluntarily entered into a compact to form a greater government but nothing in the document binds the states to the Federal Government other than the views of "We the People" who formed it. In every single Southern state that seceded the majority of the people voted for secession. The very power that bound the state to the government ended it as well.

You don't like revisionist history? Then don't accept the history written by the winners. The history you believe IS the revisionist history.
 
Another thing to consider: Lee, Stewart, Jackson, and many other Confederate Generals were graduates of West point. Before Lincolns' war, one of the textbooks used at West Point was A view of the constitution, by William Rawle(1825). One of the views expressed in this book is that the constitution is that the constitution, by it's very nature, is a voluntary compact among the participating States. The book expresses that without voluntary accession to constitutional authority, the constitution itself becomes obsolete since the primary tenet of the document is representative Republic.

The constitution, within it's core values, is a document outlining a representative Republic that places "we the people" as the primary arbiter of it's own authority. All authority delegated to the federal government originates from authority that We the people willingly give. Every other power is reserved to the States, or to "We the people" ourselves. Therefore, if "We the people", who gave the federal government it's authority willingly and voluntarily, decide that we no longer wish for that government to hold that power, then how could anyone argue that we can't do that?

Lincoln himself saw the fallacy of this argument, and said as much. in 1858, he expressed that

"Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up, and shake off the existing government, and form a new one that suits them better. This is a most valuable - a most sacred right - a right, which we hope and believe, is to liberate the world."

This is the problem with the penchant of people to canonize "St. Abe", they fail to ignore his problems. Lincoln was the architect of the federal beast that those who love liberty fight against every day. From fiat currency and personal income taxes to indefinite detention of prisoners, every government position that is being argued against on this board share a precedent with some policy that Lincoln endorsed first.
 
Yeaw we get a view of SC tonight. They like to shoot first and ask questions later like they did at Ft Sumpter. Bomb Iran and the brown people first and ask questions later.

If you read about what really happened at the "Battle of Fort Sumpter" you'll find that this battle resulted in zero deaths/0 wounded for both sides (calling it a battle is even pretty far fetched). Also.. where did this battle take place? South Carolina... part of the confederacy.. the only deaths that happened, happened 2 days later when a signal shot to return back north back fired and killed a couple union soldiers.

Lincoln was purposely re-enforcing that fort from sea for the sole purpose of instigating a war. I forgot the captains name, but the letters between Lincoln and the captain clearly showed intent to start a war. Sadly, the southerns shot some cannons in the air and told them to leave which was propaganda'd into a war.
 
The is is alway conveniently ignored by conferderate apologists. They wrote slavery into there declaration of seperation as the reason for leaving.

the reason the north fought the south wasn't slavery, otherwise the north wouldn't have enslaved people to fight the fight. they conscripted the soldiers. conscription is a form of slavery as well, so obviously the north didn't mind enslaving people.
 
Last edited:
the reason the north attacked the south wasn't slavery, otherwise the north wouldn't have enslaved people to fight the fight. they conscripted the soldiers. conscription is a form of slavery as well, so obviously the north didn't mind enslaving people.

The ironic part is that the south refused to use slaves for combat roles because "It wasn't their war to fight".

It's funny and sad when you really think about it. The Southerners who were viewed as slave driving immoral people refused to use slaves as infantry since it would be considered immoral. Yet the north had no qualms enlisting blacks, while issuing the emancipation proclamation which didn't even free them. It was only until a couple years after Lincoln died that northern slaves were "freed".

Things people dont know about the south. Free blacks owned blacks, before the civil war, free blacks owned white indentured servants, (same thing), free blacks fought in the civil war.
 
If you read about what really happened at the "Battle of Fort Sumpter" you'll find that this battle resulted in zero deaths/0 wounded for both sides (calling it a battle is even pretty far fetched). Also.. where did this battle take place? South Carolina... part of the confederacy.. the only deaths that happened, happened 2 days later when a signal shot to return back north back fired and killed a couple union soldiers.

Lincoln was purposely re-enforcing that fort from sea for the sole purpose of instigating a war. I forgot the captains name, but the letters between Lincoln and the captain clearly showed intent to start a war. Sadly, the southerns shot some cannons in the air and told them to leave which was propaganda'd into a war.
Doesn't matter what it is called they decided to shoot first and ask questions later. Just because southern artillery could hit anything doesn't mean they were trying.
 
The ironic part is that the south refused to use slaves for combat roles because "It wasn't their war to fight".

It's funny and sad when you really think about it. The Southerners who were viewed as slave driving immoral people refused to use slaves as infantry since it would be considered immoral. Yet the north had no qualms enlisting blacks, while issuing the emancipation proclamation which didn't even free them. It was only until a couple years after Lincoln died that northern slaves were "freed".
Things people dont know about the south. Free blacks owned blacks, before the civil war, free blacks owned white indentured servants, (same thing), free blacks fought in the civil war.
But they sure didn't have a problem conscripting dirt poor non slave owning farmers and shooting them as deserters when they tried to go back and get the crops in so they could feed their families.
 
the reason the north fought the south wasn't slavery, otherwise the north wouldn't have enslaved people to fight the fight. they conscripted the soldiers. conscription is a form of slavery as well, so obviously the north didn't mind enslaving people.
So the south not only had slaves during peacetime but conscripted poor whites as well during wartime. let freedom ring:rolleyes:
 
Things people dont know about the south. Free blacks owned blacks, before the civil war, free blacks owned white indentured servants, (same thing), free blacks fought in the civil war.

here is another piece of trivia for you. The first person to be legally declared a slave was a man John Casor. Casor was brought to court by a man named Anthony Johnson who argued before the court that Casor had not fulfilled his contractual duties as an indentured servant, and was therefore held liable for the remaining time. The court ruled that Casor would be held as Johnsons' "slave for life", thus setting the legal precedent for slavery which would carry over into the American legal system. Did I forget to mention that Anthony Johnson was among the first twenty Africans to be brought over to the new world?
 
Doesn't matter what it is called they decided to shoot first and ask questions later. Just because southern artillery could hit anything doesn't mean they were trying.

actually, that's not accurate. Lincoln had been warned by the governor of South Carolina that a federal presence was not welcome, and was viewed as a foreign army. Lincoln was warned that any attempt at resupply would be considered an act of War and Lincoln refused to acknowledge, sending the ship and a clear message that he was willing to engage in war. what would you do if China decided to park an attack fleet in US territorial waters?
 
actually, that's not accurate. Lincoln had been warned by the governor of South Carolina that a federal presence was not welcome, and was viewed as a foreign army. Lincoln was warned that any attempt at resupply would be considered an act of War and Lincoln refused to acknowledge, sending the ship and a clear message that he was willing to engage in war. what would you do if China decided to park an attack fleet in US territorial waters?

And when did the south offer to pay the northern states for the land that they partly paid for in the LA Purchase?
 
Yeaw I know exactly how to read. Just pointing out the irony of how the south had both. I am not a northern apologist. I apologize for neither side.

you point out the negatives of the south -which everyone already knows- and say nothing bad against the pro-slavery north. so i couldn't tell the different between you and a northern apologist.
 
you point out the negatives of the south -which everyone already knows- and say nothing bad against the pro-slavery north. so i couldn't tell the different between you and a northern apologist.
I have but on these forums it is overwhelming pro south so I am forced into providing balance.
I hate sherman, and Custer with a passion and have great respect for Lee, Longstreet. I used to be a southern apologist a long time ago but no matter how I tried to twist it in my mind I had to side with INDIVIDUAL freedom NOT states right to take individual freedom.
I think the country is worse for the war and didn't really agree with the northern fight to keep the union which yes is the reason the north fought not slavery, but you can't get around that the south left to protect slavery.
 
Does Ron Paul actually say the words, "The South was right."? If so, what exactly does he say they were right about.

N.B. Saying the North was wrong is not the same as saying the South was right.

Why is this coming up again? Some neo-con on another forum was trying to smear RP as a racist distorting his beliefs about the civil war as an example.
 
So the south not only had slaves during peacetime but conscripted poor whites as well during wartime. let freedom ring:rolleyes:

You know what flag the slave ships flew when they came to America. I'll let you guess, it wasn't the confederacies.
 
Can anyone here reply to this one review of the book "The Real Lincoln"? If slavery was flat-out stated in these declarations of separation....then is there an argument?


Southern apologists have long tried to deny the true motivation behind the Confederacy, and the true motivation behind Lincoln's desire to keep the Union intact. DiLorenzo offers them some interesting fodder for their cannons, but unfortunately for them, no balls.

There's no denying DiLorenzo's unbelievable distortion of Lincoln's own words when he says, "Eliminating every last black person from American soil, Lincoln proclaimed, would be 'a glorious consummation.'"

Here, for the record, are Lincoln's exact words, in full context:

"If as the friends of colonization hope, the present and coming generations of our countrymen shall by any means, succeed in freeing our land from the dangerous presence of slavery; and, at the same time, in restoring a captive people to their long-lost father-land, with bright prospects for the future; and this too, so gradually, that neither races nor individuals shall have suffered by the change, it will indeed be a glorious consummation."

Hardly the inflammatory remarks DiLorenzo so desperately creates out of thin air.

Sure, Lincoln's deification at the hands of a mediocre history education is lamentable, but this in no way makes Lincoln less than a great man. Learning about his flaws humanizes him and makes him accessible. This is not worship at the altar of Lincoln, it is merely respect for his manhood.

The truth that you won't hear from the twisted and somewhat rabid form of libertarianism that pervades these reviews is that the strong central government had been long established by the time Lincoln moved to Washington in 1861. For good or ill, the anti-federalists lost. But their enduring legacy was the nagging cancer of slavery that they left unaddressed for a later generation to sort out.

As I said at the beginning, Southern apologists are always looking for new ways to deny the true motivation behind the secession of the Southern states. First, they say it's states' rights (that pro-slavery forces repeatedly and violently fought against popular sovreignty when it didn't work out in their favor is an irony somehow lost in these discussions), then it's "those industrialized yankees" trying to take over the Southern agricultural economy. Next, it will probably be that they wanted to secede so they could get back to nature and live like the Native Americans.

But why not go to the source - the Declarations of Secession by the states themselves, blasphemous and hideous caricatures of the Decalaration of Independence that they are.

SOUTH CAROLINA: "The Constitution of the United States, in its fourth Article, provides as follows: "No person held to service or labor in one State, under the laws thereof, escaping into another, shall, in consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from such service or labor, but shall be delivered up, on claim of the party to whom such service or labor may be due." This stipulation was so material to the compact, that without it that compact would not have been made."

SC claims that it would not have joined the Union in the first place if residents couldn't be secure in their, ahem, "property". SC even identifies its allies in this struggle as "the other slaveholding states" in the opening paragraph. Funny way for identifying the guys you're fighting alongside of for "states' rights".

MISSISSIPPI: "In the momentous step which our State has taken of dissolving its connection with the government of which we so long formed a part, it is but just that we should declare the prominent reasons which have induced our course. Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin."

Gosh, no beating around the bush for them. This is the OPENING PARAGRAPH. Where's the part about states' rights?

ALABAMA: "Whereas, the election of Abraham Lincoln and Hannibal Hamlin to the offices of president and vice-president of the United States of America, by a sectional party, avowedly hostile to the domestic institutions and to the peace and security of the people of the State of Alabama... "

You get the idea. "Domestic institutions" by the way, means slavery. I'm sure DiLorenzo's minions will find a way to distort that, but it's true. Later on, Alabama refers to its brothers-in-arms as "the slaveholding States". Again, if states' rights are mentioned at all, they are merely used as a smokescreen, just as they are today by politicos of all stripes, to justify a less honorable end.

Getting the picture?

Look, there's nothing wrong with a strong desire to go back to a less centralized government. Heck, you'd probably get a lot of people in this country to agree with you. But let's educate them in a more responsible way. Let's not lay the blame on Lincoln for something that was finished by the time Andrew Jackson was hosting public parties on the White House lawn (and arguably by the time the ink was dry on the Treaty of Paris). It's time for the apologist South to get over itself, lose that stupid god-awful flag, and humbly join the civilized world.

Anyone have an answer? Should I not even spend time reading that book?
 
Can anyone here reply to this one review of the book "The Real Lincoln"? If slavery was flat-out stated in these declarations of separation....then is there an argument?




Anyone have an answer? Should I not even spend time reading that book?

Seceding because of an abusive centralized government would be the ultimate exercise of states' rights. What kind of person comes to the conclusion that an action can't be "states' rights" if the phrase "states' rights" isn't invoked? Also, it is pretty indisputable that Lincoln fought the war over preserving the Union, not for freeing slaves or some altruistic paradise. Read the book.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top