Ron Paul's immigration position from 2007

[Swordsmyth]

Why are you here then, if you feel that way about Ron Paul's positions?

You realize this website is called the "Ron Paul Forums." Right?

Maybe he agrees with Ron's position from 2007

 

[Swordsmyth]

So you're saying that Ron Paul supported changing the current incoherent and unfair system to one where the same rules and waiting periods applied to legal immigrants from all countries.

How is that not what I've said?

It's pretty obvious from that quote that Ron Paul supported increasing legal immigration.

Maybe more or maybe not BUT NOT UNLIMITED:

But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

 

[Stratovarious]

It means "useless".

Well played.

 

[Stratovarious]

Why are you here then, if you feel that way about Ron Paul's positions?

You realize this website is called the "Ron Paul Forums." Right?

Love it, idiots can't come up with their own quips so they copy mine and other member's , fo ....''go love yourself''
No we don't need footage...:facepalm:

 

[Swordsmyth]

It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
*No government spying
*No "papers, please" mentality
*No biometrics
*No walling our country in
*Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
*End welfare entirely
*No abuse of prisoners in US custody


It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
*Expanded use of biometrics
*Increased government spying
*Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
*Attempting to wall our country in
*No significant attempts to end welfare
*Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps

This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.



More direct opposition to Ron Paul. Calling someone who genuinely supports Ron Paul a leftist is the typical attack used when those who oppose him are unable to defend their indefensible positions. It's really funny to hear that from a guy who is the loudest voice here for turning our country into north korea or east germany, complete with spying on people, biometrics, "papers, please" mentality, abusing people in concentration caps, and wall. If you are genuine about supporting Ron Paul on immigration, then go ahead and denounce trump for those things. Put up or shut up.

You don't get to lie about his positions.

He wanted Visa holders tracked.
He voted for the secure fence act.
He said that allowing an unlimited number of people to come here was insanity.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Ron Paul's position from 2007:

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

• 
  [*=left]Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
  [*=left]Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
  [*=left]No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
  [*=left]No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
  [*=left]End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
  [*=left]Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





"I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007




We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country

Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

No amnesty.

End birthright citizenship

current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

 

[invisible]

It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
*No government spying
*No "papers, please" mentality
*No biometrics
*No walling our country in
*Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
*End welfare entirely
*No abuse of prisoners in US custody


It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
*Expanded use of biometrics
*Increased government spying
*Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
*Attempting to wall our country in
*No significant attempts to end welfare
*Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps

This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.

You don't get to lie about his positions.

Lie, lol? By all means, please provide a quote where I have said that these are not Ron Paul's positions.
You still haven't repudated your Authoritarian Idol for doing the things that you claim to oppose.
Let's keep the comedy rolling!

He wanted Visa holders tracked.

This can be done without biometrics or expansion of the big government police state. Obviously, Ron Paul would do this in such a way to be consistent with his other positions and platform. As an example, millions of people on probation are tracked without the government spying on them (and everyone else at the same time), they are simply required to make a phone call or show up at an office somewhere on a periodic basis.

He voted for the secure fence act.

And then changed his position to one more in line with Liberty, and has opposed this ever since.

He said that allowing an unlimited number of people to come here was insanity.

Well, duh. This is just common sense. No matter how many people are or are not let in, you can't let enough of them in all at once such that the system to legally process them becomes overwhelmed.

 

[Swordsmyth]

It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
*No government spying
*No "papers, please" mentality

Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

*No walling our country in

He may oppose the wall now but that is irrelevant to his position in 2007, he voted for the secure fence act.

*Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship

The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
*Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality

Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

*Attempting to wall our country in

Hype.
And Ron voted for the Secure Fence act whether he changed his mind later or not.

*No significant attempts to end welfare

WRONG.

*Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps

LIES.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Ron Paul's position from 2007:

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

• 
  [*=left]Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
  [*=left]Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
  [*=left]No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
  [*=left]No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
  [*=left]End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
  [*=left]Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





"I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007




We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country

Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

No amnesty.

End birthright citizenship

current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

 

[timosman]

But he really didn't mean that.

 

[nikcers]

But he really didn't mean that.

He changed his mind, he isn't the most ideaologically consistent politician in modern history.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Ron Paul's position from 2007:

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

• 
  [*=left]Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
  [*=left]Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
  [*=left]No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
  [*=left]No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
  [*=left]End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
  [*=left]Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





"I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007




We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country

Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

No amnesty.

End birthright citizenship

current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

 

[Anti Federalist]

I agree with Ron on all of this.

It's why I voted for him in 2008, 2012 and 2016.

If he has changed his mind, that is unfortunate.

I have not.

In fact, if anything, in face of the clear migrant invasion, I have taken a much harder line on this issue.

Those who are here illegally, get the fuck out of my country.

Those who are not here yet, fuck off, country is full.

Ron Paul's position from 2007:

The talk must stop. We must secure our borders now. A nation without secure borders is no nation at all. It makes no sense to fight terrorists abroad when our own front door is left unlocked. This is my six point plan:

• 
  [*=left]Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.
  [*=left]Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.
  [*=left]No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.
  [*=left]No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.
  [*=left]End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.
  [*=left]Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.

http://archive.is/XoV0h#selection-311.1-349.26





"I remember I got into trouble with Libertarians because I said there may well be a time when immigration is like an invasion and we have to treat it differently." - Ron Paul on Meet The Press 23 Dec 2007




We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country

Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law.

No amnesty.

End birthright citizenship

current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity.

 

[invisible]

It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
*No government spying
*No "papers, please" mentality
*No biometrics
*No walling our country in
*Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
*End welfare entirely
*No abuse of prisoners in US custody


It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
*Expanded use of biometrics
*Increased government spying
*Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
*Attempting to wall our country in
*No significant attempts to end welfare
*Offered welfare to immigrants
*Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
*Creation of more immigrants by continuing and expanding obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy

This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.


So, in what other ways does Ron Paul differ from trump on immigration? Does anyone have any others that can be listed?

 

[Superfluous Man]

I agree with Ron on all of this.

It's why I voted for him in 2008, 2012 and 2016.

If he has changed his mind, that is unfortunate.

I have not.

In fact, if anything, in face of the clear migrant invasion, I have taken a much harder line on this issue.

Those who are here illegally, get the $#@! out of my country.

Those who are not here yet, $#@! off, country is full.

Taking a much much harder line on this issue = changing your mind. You used to agree with Ron Paul about this issue. You don't any more.

Notice that, despite the way immigration restrictionists have tried to extrapolate a hard line stance on Ron Paul's part on this issue from the quotes given, there's nothing hard line in any of them as far as restricting immigration goes. Nobody needs to suggest that Ron Paul changed his mind between the time of these campaign promises and all his other pro-immigration statements, because there's really nothing in here that contradicts his pro-immigration positions.

 

[PAF]

It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
*No government spying
*No "papers, please" mentality
*No biometrics
*No walling our country in
*Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
*End welfare entirely
*No abuse of prisoners in US custody


It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
*Expanded use of biometrics
*Increased government spying
*Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
*Attempting to wall our country in
*No significant attempts to end welfare
*Offered welfare to immigrants
*Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
*Creation of more immigrants by continuing and expanding obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy

This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.


So, in what other ways does Ron Paul differ from trump on immigration? Does anyone have any others that can be listed?

Yes. For starters, Trump is a life-long shill for Eminent Domain, which Ron Paul clearly is not:

Snip:

Texas already started building a border fence about ten years ago. It divided people from their own property across the border, it deprived people of their land through the use of eminent domain, and in the end the problem of drug and human smuggling was not solved.

http://www.ronpaulinstitute.org/arc...30/a-better-solution-than-trump-s-border-wall

It is not only Libertarians who value Private Property and Contracts Rights, but also always part of the Republican Platform... until Neocon entered the mix.

 

[Superfluous Man]

It would be dishonest to leave out the rest of it, so I will kindly provide the part that's missing:

And of course, we can't forget the rest of Ron Paul's positions that also apply:
*No government spying
*No "papers, please" mentality
*No biometrics
*No walling our country in
*Let anyone come here and work, without the benefits of citizenship
*End welfare entirely
*No abuse of prisoners in US custody


It is important to keep these policies in mind, as they differ significantly from trump's policies:
*Expanded use of biometrics
*Increased government spying
*Expanded police state and "papers, please" mentality
*Attempting to wall our country in
*No significant attempts to end welfare
*Offered welfare to immigrants
*Abuse of immigrants held in concentration camps
*Creation of more immigrants by continuing and expanding obomba's NWO regime change foreign policy

This is what the trumpettes and shylls are attempting to sell everyone, under the guise of immigration policy. Ron Paul =/= trump!
If one is to genuinely support Ron Paul on immigration, then one opposes trump on immigration.


So, in what other ways does Ron Paul differ from trump on immigration? Does anyone have any others that can be listed?

Here are some good write-ups on Ron Paul's immigration positions from the immigration restrictionist site NumbersUSA. As they note, in comparison to all the other GOP candidates in 2012, Ron Paul was the least in line with their own immigration restrictionist policies.
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/node/11769
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/...s-new-book-sinks-his-immigration-grade-f.html
https://www.numbersusa.com/content/...he-would-handle-issues-president-we-didnt-mak

We could add to your list the following:

*Ron Paul is against E-Verify. And more than that, he is against any laws mandating that employers assist in the enforcement of immigration laws. This point all by itself practically neuters the most important enforcement tool that immigration restrictrionists have. Without requiring employers to vet their employees' immigration statuses, there's no effective way to stop them from hiring unlimited numbers of unlawful aliens and no effective way to prevent unlimited numbers of unlawful aliens from being able to live indefinitely in the US under the radar.

*Ron Paul supports increasing overall immigration.

*Ron Paul sees the economic effect of immigrants taking jobs here as good, not bad.

*Ron Paul supports allowing unlawful aliens to stay in the US to live and work as long as they are not receiving welfare. He even speaks positively about the possibility of granting them a legal status to do so, as he calls it "a green card with an asterisk." He does not support trying to deport them all.

 

[Superfluous Man]

Since Trump has been in office, has Ron Paul had anything positive to say about any of his immigration restrictionist policies or promises? We can all find plenty of negative things he has to say about them. Is there anything Trump has done in this regard that Ron Paul actually likes?

 

[invisible]

Yes. For starters, Trump is a life-long shill for Eminent Domain, which Ron Paul clearly is not

That would already be covered under no walling our country in

We could add to your list the following:

*Ron Paul is against E-Verify.

Already covered under no biometrics

*Ron Paul supports increasing overall immigration.

I've never seen that stated as an actual policy goal. Do you have a source to support that?

*Ron Paul sees the economic effect of immigrants taking jobs here as good, not bad.

That isn't a policy position, that's a viewpoint.

*Ron Paul supports allowing unlawful aliens to stay in the US to live and work as long as they are not receiving welfare. He even speaks positively about the possibility of granting them a legal status to do so, as he calls it "a green card with an asterisk." He does not support trying to deport them all.

I've never seen that one before, do you have a source for that as well? That would seem to directly conflict with "no amnesty".

The trumpettes and shylls are grasping at straws to oppose how Ron Paul's immigration policies differ from those of their Authoritarian Idol. Any policy differences should be readily documented as being actual and factual policy positions.

 

[Superfluous Man]

That would already be covered under no walling our country in


Already covered under no biometrics


I've never seen that stated as an actual policy goal. Do you have a source to support that?


That isn't a policy position, that's a viewpoint.


I've never seen that one before, do you have a source for that as well? That would seem to directly conflict with "no amnesty".

The trumpettes and shylls are grasping at straws to oppose how Ron Paul's immigration policies differ from those of their Authoritarian Idol. Any policy differences should be readily documented as being actual and factual policy positions.

I provided links with documentation for each point quoting Ron Paul, often from his book Liberty Defined, but also from other speeches, writings, and debates.