Ron Paul vs. Paul Krugman on Bloomberg TV 4/30/12 (Video and transcript added)
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ChristopherShelley
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That was unbelievable!!! Krugman couldn't take any more I guess?
Crystallas
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What, no alien invasion? 
Carson
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Some of these Keynesian guys think that when they print up money they make the economic pie bigger. In fact the pie stays the same size they have just shifted the lines of ownership.
~~~
It can't stimulate the economy. The pie isn't bigger you have just shifted the lines of ownership.
First you need to understand the basics of a corrupt system of fiat.
Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.
Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world's wealth. Each one of us has one SUPER Dollar in front of him.
You own half of everything and so do I.
I'm the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.
You're not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more SUPER Dollars to manipulate you with.
All of a sudden your SUPER Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!
That isn't the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because YOU'VE BEEN STIFFED with the bill for the money I PRINTED UP to get YOU TO DO what I WANTED.
That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can't keep up with the fake money presses.
Once you've got the basics some other things should start becoming clear.
~No matter where you aunt Martha hid the sugar jar with here savings in it others are able to slither in like vampires in the night and suck the strength out of it. (Extreme understatement. They are also sucking the dollar value out of the cookie jar,the shelf it sits on, the house it is in and absolutely everything else entirely.)
~Sure if the double the money supply your Uncle Phil gets twice as much when he sells his stocks but he is getting twice as many of something worth half as much. Plus some of the very people that counterfeited the money supply have now cut themselves in on his stuff with capital gains taxes.
~ No matter how much hard earned money the "we the people" can come up with to build their world the way they want, others have the ability to fire up the fake money presses and dictate to them their will.
See the little bumps of this chart put together by Robert Sahr. They show earlier times of war when fiat was introduced into the system to finance them. It now looks like they are at war with all of us.
http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/followthemoney/RobertSahrcurrencyvalue.jpg
This is a chart of the Dow Jones Industrials. Notice the same percentage of increase as in Robert Sahr's chart? (Knock off a couple of zeros to simplify)
http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/followthemoney/30DJIA.jpg
Super Dollar
http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/followthemoney/Supersingle640x537.jpg
~~~
It can't stimulate the economy. The pie isn't bigger you have just shifted the lines of ownership.
First you need to understand the basics of a corrupt system of fiat.
Maybe this will help make the danger of fiat money clear.
Imagine you and me are setting across from each other. We create enough money to represent all of the world's wealth. Each one of us has one SUPER Dollar in front of him.
You own half of everything and so do I.
I'm the government though. I get bribed into creating a Central Bank.
You're not doing what I want you to be doing so I print up myself eight more SUPER Dollars to manipulate you with.
All of a sudden your SUPER Dollar only represents one tenth of the wealth of the world!
That isn't the only thing though. You need to get busy and get to work because YOU'VE BEEN STIFFED with the bill for the money I PRINTED UP to get YOU TO DO what I WANTED.
That to me represents what has been happening to the economy, and us, and why so many of our occupations just can't keep up with the fake money presses.
Once you've got the basics some other things should start becoming clear.
~No matter where you aunt Martha hid the sugar jar with here savings in it others are able to slither in like vampires in the night and suck the strength out of it. (Extreme understatement. They are also sucking the dollar value out of the cookie jar,the shelf it sits on, the house it is in and absolutely everything else entirely.)
~Sure if the double the money supply your Uncle Phil gets twice as much when he sells his stocks but he is getting twice as many of something worth half as much. Plus some of the very people that counterfeited the money supply have now cut themselves in on his stuff with capital gains taxes.
~ No matter how much hard earned money the "we the people" can come up with to build their world the way they want, others have the ability to fire up the fake money presses and dictate to them their will.
See the little bumps of this chart put together by Robert Sahr. They show earlier times of war when fiat was introduced into the system to finance them. It now looks like they are at war with all of us.
http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/followthemoney/RobertSahrcurrencyvalue.jpg
This is a chart of the Dow Jones Industrials. Notice the same percentage of increase as in Robert Sahr's chart? (Knock off a couple of zeros to simplify)
http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/followthemoney/30DJIA.jpg
Super Dollar
http://photos.imageevent.com/stokeybob/followthemoney/Supersingle640x537.jpg
Last edited:
Justinfrom1776
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Krugman, which philosophy got us in the mess we're in? He acts as if the Austrian theory will only perpetuate the damage caused by the keynesian system.. What a fool.
IDefendThePlatform
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That was some serious pwnage. Put that in your pipe and smoke it keynesians!
Moments that I especially enjoyed:
When krugman claimed that Friedman blamed the fed for the great depression but only because they "didn't do enough"
And Ron replied immediately with "That's the point! They always do too little or too much."
Any chance it'll sink in for krugman that central planning sucks?
Also when Ron said "just let me use competing currencies and if I'm wrong no big deal, the dollar will just win" or something like that and Krugman had no where left to go except to claim that historically our problems came from TOO MUCH competition in currencies.
Too much competition. Priceless.
That score is Ron Paul 1, Paul Krugman zero. Awesome segment.
Moments that I especially enjoyed:
When krugman claimed that Friedman blamed the fed for the great depression but only because they "didn't do enough"
And Ron replied immediately with "That's the point! They always do too little or too much."
Any chance it'll sink in for krugman that central planning sucks?
Also when Ron said "just let me use competing currencies and if I'm wrong no big deal, the dollar will just win" or something like that and Krugman had no where left to go except to claim that historically our problems came from TOO MUCH competition in currencies.
Too much competition. Priceless.
That score is Ron Paul 1, Paul Krugman zero. Awesome segment.
matt0611
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What's Murphy's official Facebook page?
r3volution
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just seen this on drudge
anewvoice
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What? We have so many interviews now that the sentence "just an interview with Ron Paul" can be uttered?
Krugman's latest book, End This Depression Now!, is probably on Romney's nightstand all highlighted and with notes in all the margins.
robert9712000
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LOL,listen closely at the 10:45 mark,Krugman slips and admits where in a depression still.
Hahahaha!
rpwi
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Krugman said some pretty absurd stuff...he's a Keynesian hardliner...a firm believer the key to economic prosperity is to proverbially borrow as much money as possible to buy mud pies.
But I do agree on the difficulty of defining money. We can all agree MB is money (government issued money). But aren't bank deposits money? (M1) Then what about near bank deposits (M2)? Not as near deposits (M3)? Short term loans?
It is a tricky matter...as even seashells could be considered money if we use them as a store of value.
The important factor is that if we have competing currencies (like bank money) that banks are ACCOUNTABLE for their bankruns (aka no bailouts). That's not what we have now. Also when government creates money they allow banks to create a multiple of that money in bank deposits which creates an upside down pyramid of money. So there is derivative money and non-derived money like the monetary base or gold. Krugman does not appreciate the difference.
The arguments between Paul and Paul about whether we have competing currencies was more nuanced than either suggested. Yes you can barter with non-dollars (like gold and Euros). What is propping up the dollar and those businesses that want to sell dollars to us, is that the legal tender laws in the US forces us to use dollars to satisfy public debts and disputed private debts. As long as we have a massive amount of taxation...the dollar will always have use. It would never be worth nothing...because it was a means by which you could alleviate your spring tax bills. Without taxation in dollars (aka legal tender) there is no floor for how low the dollar can drop. So in an indirect, but a very powerful way, the government is forcing us to use dollars. If they created a new currency tomorrow called 2.0dollars....and that could satisfy tax debts as well...it would instantly work (albeit cause a little inflation).
Krugman is extremely naive on the international front...if he ramps up debt like he wants...this will destroy the dollar's exchange value and could lead to a run on the dollar as a reserve currency. This creates a feedback loop as worthless dollars come home demanding real exports which exasperates the inflation and diving exchange rate. Even the Fed governors as naive as they are, are wary about spooking international investors and central banks when it comes to our inflation.
But I do agree on the difficulty of defining money. We can all agree MB is money (government issued money). But aren't bank deposits money? (M1) Then what about near bank deposits (M2)? Not as near deposits (M3)? Short term loans?
It is a tricky matter...as even seashells could be considered money if we use them as a store of value.
The important factor is that if we have competing currencies (like bank money) that banks are ACCOUNTABLE for their bankruns (aka no bailouts). That's not what we have now. Also when government creates money they allow banks to create a multiple of that money in bank deposits which creates an upside down pyramid of money. So there is derivative money and non-derived money like the monetary base or gold. Krugman does not appreciate the difference.
The arguments between Paul and Paul about whether we have competing currencies was more nuanced than either suggested. Yes you can barter with non-dollars (like gold and Euros). What is propping up the dollar and those businesses that want to sell dollars to us, is that the legal tender laws in the US forces us to use dollars to satisfy public debts and disputed private debts. As long as we have a massive amount of taxation...the dollar will always have use. It would never be worth nothing...because it was a means by which you could alleviate your spring tax bills. Without taxation in dollars (aka legal tender) there is no floor for how low the dollar can drop. So in an indirect, but a very powerful way, the government is forcing us to use dollars. If they created a new currency tomorrow called 2.0dollars....and that could satisfy tax debts as well...it would instantly work (albeit cause a little inflation).
Krugman is extremely naive on the international front...if he ramps up debt like he wants...this will destroy the dollar's exchange value and could lead to a run on the dollar as a reserve currency. This creates a feedback loop as worthless dollars come home demanding real exports which exasperates the inflation and diving exchange rate. Even the Fed governors as naive as they are, are wary about spooking international investors and central banks when it comes to our inflation.
Last edited:
matt0611
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I can't find the article, but I swear I read something (maybe 1.5 years ago) talking about how Krugman said we were out of the recession!
BlackTerrel
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Pretty interesting discussion. Thanks for posting.
Paulistinian
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I think Krugman wants to be a Fed chairman.
