Ron Paul R3volution falls victim to Trump and frustration

[Anti Federalist]

The man who gives you pennies from his right hand while stealing dollars from his left is no better than the man who gives you pennies from his left and steals dollars from your right. The areas where you think Trump is benefitting the cause of liberty are miniscule compared to the areas where he's destroying the cause. I'm just being consistent.

I'm not seeing it that way.

Two steps forward, one back.

YMMV.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Globalism?? The term, "Globalism" is completely misconstrued. The liberty movement used to be FOR global trade and against global government. Trade globally, govern locally.

I have always been opposed to global trade agreements, managed trade, and have been in favor of tariffs and excises as the only constitutionally permitted form of taxation the fedgov can collect.

An "America First" trade policy...MAGA if you insist.

You can see my posts going back ten years on that.

And, gee, guess, what?

It sure seems to be working.

 

[Schifference]

Rand Paul timidly apologized for shushing a reporter where Donald Trump would have embellished that opportunity to make himself a dominant household name.

 

[Schifference]

As usual I find myself in complete agreement with you. Trump is certainly well short of being a libertarian and he is a copsucker, but there is a ton good from him as well. One only has to be willing to see the positive.

Trump is your best friend and you are the greatest until he is not and you are not. Copsucker today, Copblocker tomorrow? It is anybody's guess.

 

[CaptUSA]

I have always been opposed to global trade agreements, managed trade, and have been in favor of tariffs and excises as the only constitutionally permitted form of taxation the fedgov can collect.

An "America First" trade policy...MAGA if you insist.

You can see my posts going back ten years on that.

And, gee, guess, what?

It sure seems to be working.

I am also against managed trade. But do you not see that that is exactly what Trump is doing? He just wants it to be managed differently.

Ron Paul (and myself) is for lowering all of our tariffs regardless of what other countries may do. No need for any government "trade deals" - even if they're "MAGA deals". And it's working?? I guess that depends on which industry you ask. Governments LOVE picking winners and losers. Tariffs and excise taxes should be very low and evenly applied across industries. We should be against politicians using their power to curry political favor. It's not their power to wield.

"Trade globally" means that individuals can trade with anyone that suits their needs without interference from governments. It does NOT mean global trade agreements between governments. And since "Govern locally" means just that, the only government we should be concerned with is our own.

 

[Matt Collins]

Interesting. Because I remember how the majority claimed that no leadership was wanted or needed. lol

Good to see you back around here...


Anyway, to the point at hand, yes even the pro liberty crowd are humans, and humans need leadership whether they want to admit it or not.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Good to see you back around here...

Anyway, to the point at hand, yes even the pro liberty crowd are humans, and humans need leadership whether they want to admit it or not.

The point was Matt, that they won't take it. Have you forgotten how pseudo campaign literature was made by 2 guys in Florida and money was gathered from everywhere to send out what these two guys thought should be sent to every household in certain states? Everything but the kitchen sink was in there, rather than the targeted marketing that is known to work, links to 911 crapola, ... ugh.. No, we couldn't let the campaign do their own literature, these two guys knew better. Remember the coffin on the front of one of them that just about alienated the military standing up for Ron in Iowa?

Then there was the Campaign for Liberty. Not perfect, no, but instead of seeing how it could be helped, I remember the onslaught here denouncing every damn thing they did.

That's just two examples. I'm sure you know of a hundred more, just like I do.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I am also against managed trade. But do you not see that that is exactly what Trump is doing? He just wants it to be managed differently.

Ron Paul (and myself) is for lowering all of our tariffs regardless of what other countries may do. No need for any government "trade deals" - even if they're "MAGA deals". And it's working?? I guess that depends on which industry you ask. Governments LOVE picking winners and losers. Tariffs and excise taxes should be very low and evenly applied across industries. We should be against politicians using their power to curry political favor. It's not their power to wield.

"Trade globally" means that individuals can trade with anyone that suits their needs without interference from governments. It does NOT mean global trade agreements between governments. And since "Govern locally" means just that, the only government we should be concerned with is our own.

You know, I don't know if what Trump is doing will work either. No one wants tariffs. He wants the trade agreements changed. They don't want to. Thus, the tariffs until they do. Trump wants bilateral trade agreements, rather than multilateral. Good for him!! About damn time.

 

[EBounding]

You know, I don't know if what Trump is doing will work either. No one wants tariffs. He wants the trade agreements changed. They don't want to. Thus, the tariffs until they do. Trump wants bilateral trade agreements, rather than multilateral. Good for him!! About damn time.

I'm open to changing my perspective on tariffs if it actually yields a better long-term result. But at what point does it become a bad idea if no one is willing to negotiate? 2 years? 5 years? 20 years?

 

[LibertyEagle]

I'm open to changing my perspective on tariffs if it actually yields a better long-term result. But at what point does it become a bad idea if no one is willing to negotiate? 2 years? 5 years? 20 years?

Honestly, I don't know a number. I'm not in favor of substantial tariffs. What I am interested in though, is getting out of these rotten trade agreements. Don't know if tariffs will work in getting us there, or not.

 

[CaptUSA]

Honestly, I don't know a number. I'm not in favor of substantial tariffs. What I am interested in though, is getting out of these rotten trade agreements. Don't know if tariffs will work in getting us there, or not.

Same old schtick. Whatever you hope to gain by this, you cannot call it a liberty-oriented approach. I've never seen the "use more government to get less government" approach ever work. Can you give us an example where it has?

 

[LibertyEagle]

Same old schtick. Whatever you hope to gain by this, you cannot call it a liberty-oriented approach. I've never seen the "use more government to get less government" approach ever work. Can you give us an example where it has?

Fair enough. Please tell us your workable plan to get us out of the multilateral trade deals we are currently in.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Same old schtick. Whatever you hope to gain by this, you cannot call it a liberty-oriented approach. I've never seen the "use more government to get less government" approach ever work. Can you give us an example where it has?

See that's just it...it is not using more government.

Ideally this is the proposal: you import into the US market? Pay xx percent on the product, commodity or service.

Done.

Supra national trade agreements lead to EU unions.

Right now I suffer under a warehouse full of edicts, mandates, rules and fatwas all decreed by a branch of the UN.

I have no representation, no say in any of these rules, no way in which to "redress my grievances" and no choice but to comply.

In the US mind you.

That's more government.

 

[Cleaner44]

Trump is your best friend and you are the greatest until he is not and you are not. Copsucker today, Copblocker tomorrow? It is anybody's guess.

Your post doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe next time to can work on being more clear.

Trump isn't my friend at all, but I would like to have billionaire friends.

I am the greatest and always have been!

Just to be clear about my feelings on Trump, I appreciate the many positive things that are happening as a result of him being President. His positives outweigh his negatives as far as I am concerned. I could go on and on about what those positives are for me, but does anyone really care?

 

[Schifference]

Your post doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe next time to can work on being more clear.

Trump isn't my friend at all, but I would like to have billionaire friends.

I am the greatest and always have been!

Just to be clear about my feelings on Trump, I appreciate the many positive things that are happening as a result of him being President. His positives outweigh his negatives as far as I am concerned. I could go on and on about what those positives are for me, but does anyone really care?

Trump always says everyone is the greatest until he changes his mind. Trump is for it until he is against it. No that Trump is "your best friend."

 

[CaptUSA]

See that's just it...it is not using more government.

Ideally this is the proposal: you import into the US market? Pay xx percent on the product, commodity or service.

Done.

Except that's not how it works. This is the real proposal: You, Mr. Consumer, want to buy a product, commodity or service from a country on the authoritarian's naughty list? You have to pay more because we've put more government in the way.

No matter which way you cut it, it's more government interference in the trade between two individuals.

Some seem to think that this "more government" will eventually lead to less government. I don't think that's ever happened. More likely, it will just be a shift in the favored cronyist industries.

 

[Swordsmyth]

Except that's not how it works. This is the real proposal: You, Mr. Consumer, want to buy a product, commodity or service from a country on the authoritarian's naughty list? You have to pay more because we've put more government in the way.

No matter which way you cut it, it's more government interference in the trade between two individuals.

Some seem to think that this "more government" will eventually lead to less government. I don't think that's ever happened. More likely, it will just be a shift in the favored cronyist industries.

There is already government involvement in trade and it is used to destroy our economy, Trump is defending America and trying to reduce government involvement in the end.

 

[timosman]

Rand Paul timidly apologized for shushing a reporter where Donald Trump would have embellished that opportunity to make himself a dominant household name.

That was the end of his campaign.

 

[timosman]

Trump always says everyone is the greatest until he changes his mind. Trump is for it until he is against it. No that Trump is "your best friend."

He knows how to work with people.

 

[timosman]

The point was Matt, that they won't take it. Have you forgotten how pseudo campaign literature was made by 2 guys in Florida and money was gathered from everywhere to send out what these two guys thought should be sent to every household in certain states? Everything but the kitchen sink was in there, rather than the targeted marketing that is known to work, links to 911 crapola, ... ugh.. No, we couldn't let the campaign do their own literature, these two guys knew better. Remember the coffin on the front of one of them that just about alienated the military standing up for Ron in Iowa?

Then there was the Campaign for Liberty. Not perfect, no, but instead of seeing how it could be helped, I remember the onslaught here denouncing every damn thing they did.

That's just two examples. I'm sure you know of a hundred more, just like I do.

Why couldn't the campaign handle these?