Ron Paul R3volution falls victim to Trump and frustration

[Origanalist]

Ron Paul has not jumped on the Trump train, and he has not come down with Trump Derangment Syndrome.[snip

That's really the only place anyone should be. I've made it pretty plain I'm not a supporter but there is no denying he's not 100% bad.

 

[Anti Globalist]

All the liberty movement has to do is get a bunch of alpha males that believe in freedom and liberty and run their campaigns the same way that Trump did. Ron, Rand, Amash, and Massie are all great guys but they're not exactly alpha. If we did that in the past, I guarantee the country would have been taken back decades ago.

 

[DamianTV]

It might be nice if Trump funded a Ron Paul campaign! Or even put Ron Paul in a high position in power.

I think most of us still genuinely believe in liberty, and Trump is more of a distraction from Ron Paul. We all should be able to recognize that it isnt just about Ron Paul, but the fundamental ideas he carries. Trump does not carry those ideas well enough for me. We are still alive, but quite disorganized without a strong figurehead to carry that proverbial torch. With the outright attacks on Free Speech now being authorized, we have a very big problem if we have no place we can organize and discuss problems and solutions.

 

[angelatc]

Sorry, guys - this article is right. Look around in here. Just because you have been conned into the Trump bandwagon doesn't mean "most" of us have.

Most of us have abandoned this place and returned to apathy. That's the fact.

Yep.

Hell, I almost would have preferred a Hillary win at this point. At least then, we'd be united in opposition to the growing State.

Nope.

I think Obama took the wind out of our sails long before Trump showed up. We couldn't even unite behind Rand.

 

[phill4paul]

The R3volution is doing as good as can be expected. It's had gains. Rand, Massie, Amash, and others in the Freedom Caucus. And of course Ron just hasn't faded away. He's still there dispensing wisdom. I don't necessarily think this war between the parties, exacerbated by Trump, and the status-quo political hacks which inhabit both, is a bad thing. It keeps their eye off off liberty candidates.

 

[PursuePeace]

“If we got Ron Paul elected, would he do what Donald Trump did? Maybe not,” Mr. Bunce said. “Maybe Donald Trump is the guy who can break up the deep state so someone like Ron or Rand can get in and legislate to make the changes we want.

“After all,” he said, “to make changes you have to cut the dragon’s head off.”

That part of the article was accurate.

 

[wizardwatson]

Sadly, an accurate write-up....

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/aug/14/ron-paul-revolution-falls-victim-frustration-donal/

I don't think it's accurate.

What has yet to happen is organization around principles instead of candidates. The movement has no organizational substance outside of cult of personality allegiance and leftover moneybomb aftershocks.

The whole history is an amazing lesson to me that insight, talent, money, ideas, don't necessarily translate into action.

For all our indignation, as a movement, we're still Neo in Oracle's kitchen munching on a cookie, waiting for an omen.

 

[euphemia]

Trump is doing it his way. At least he’s doing it.

 

[thoughtomator]

For all our indignation, as a movement, we're still Neo in Oracle's kitchen munching on a cookie, waiting for an omen.

How much more out of the blue and unexpected does the Trump phenomenon have to have been in order for people to realize it was precisely the omen "libertarian Neos" were looking for? Suddenly handed the perfect tool to defeat Agent Smith, so many decided to instead worry about the integrity of the Matrix.

 

[CaptUSA]

Trump is doing it his way. At least he’s doing it.

Doing what?! Growing government and getting former liberty folks to cheer him on?! Yay.

At least if it was Hillary doing this stuff, people would be up in arms in opposition. Trump grows spending and the response is pathetic.

 

[Matt Collins]

The R3volution produced a lot of fruit, but sadly it failed to reach its full potential largely due to failed leadership at the top.

 

[Anti Federalist]

Doing what?! Growing government and getting former liberty folks to cheer him on?! Yay.

At least if it was Hillary doing this stuff, people would be up in arms in opposition. Trump grows spending and the response is pathetic.

Trump has cut regulation, he has done his level best to slap down the EPA (the alphabet soup agency I am convinced is the single biggest threat to liberty), he has made former trading "partners" take notice that trade deals are no longer going to be one sided globalist affairs, he has done his level best to repeal Obamacare, providing EO relief when the establishment GOP sluts refused, in spite of his bluster he has stood by the second amendment, he is doing his level best to appoint constitutionalist judges throughout the federal judiciary, he has made peace overtures to NK and to Russia, thereby averting war that the establishment, represented by Hillary, wanted so badly...just to name a few things off the top of my head.

I'm not cheering him on, I'm giving credit where it's due.

As a whole, from a freedom perspective, we are better off, factually.

To think Hillary would have done any of that is irrational.

 

[thoughtomator]

To think Hillary would have done any of that is irrational.

It is indicative of someone who either was never on the side of liberty to begin with, now or in the past, but has chosen to attach themselves to liberty groups under a different motivation, such as careerism or virtue signaling. As with the GOP and Dem parties, the liberty side consulting class has clearly diverged from the base.

 

[RJB]

I agree. I was totally against Trump at the beginning, but he has surprised me. He is flawed, but much better than expected. I think people go off the rails when they get too invested in a stance due to emotions. You can see it where the bad feelings held over from 2016 has caused many people to dig in their heels and either totally hate him or totally like him. People get ruled by their passions and take stances due to bad feeling s from old arguments rather than by core beliefs.

Trump has cut regulation, he has done his level best to slap down the EPA (the alphabet soup agency I am convinced is the single biggest threat to liberty), he has made former trading "partners" take notice that trade deals are no longer going to be one sided globalist affairs, he has done his level best to repeal Obamacare, providing EO relief when the establishment GOP sluts refused, in spite of his bluster he has stood by the second amendment, he is doing his level best to appoint constitutionalist judges throughout the federal judiciary, he has made peace overtures to NK and to Russia, thereby averting war that the establishment, represented by Hillary, wanted so badly...just to name a few things off the top of my head.

I'm not cheering him on, I'm giving credit where it's due.

As a whole, from as freedom perspective, we are better off, factually.

To think Hillary would have done any of that is irrational.

 

[Cleaner44]

This is my biggest problem with Trump.

On many other fronts, he is moving the ball forward in positive ways.

Overall, after two years now of watching this, we are in better shape than if Hillary had been appointed, and that's a plain fact.

As usual I find myself in complete agreement with you. Trump is certainly well short of being a libertarian and he is a copsucker, but there is a ton good from him as well. One only has to be willing to see the positive.

 

[Anti Federalist]

It is indicative of someone who either was never on the side of liberty to begin with, now or in the past, but has chosen to attach themselves to liberty groups under a different motivation, such as careerism or virtue signaling. As with the GOP and Dem parties, the liberty side consulting class has clearly diverged from the base.

Nah, I'm not going to jump on that bandwagon.

I've had more than a couple of people call me "enemy of freedom", "racist", "sexist", anti liberty and so on because of nothing more than adjusting my outlook based on current factual realities.

Capt. USA is no big government statist.

If he doesn't want to acknowledge this progress, for whatever reason, that's his right.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Sorry, guys - this article is right. Look around in here. Just because you have been conned into the Trump bandwagon doesn't mean "most" of us have.

Most of us have abandoned this place and returned to apathy. That's the fact.

Hell, I almost would have preferred a Hillary win at this point. At least then, we'd be united in opposition to the growing State. But alas, many of you are now cheering for it. If you can't see what Trump has done to the Ron Paul R3VOLution, then you are indeed blind.

Admittedly, Trump has done some good things, but the damage done to the principles of true liberty will probably never be repaired in my lifetime.

Oh BULLSHIT. Trump didn't do one damn thing to the Ron Paul Revolution and the Revolution was never made up of people sitting on their asses bitching and moaning on an internet forum.

Trump isn't one of THEM and he's proven himself open to good advice; like the advice he accepts from Rand. Too bad when Trump was asking for recommendations for Cabinet positions that some of the holy ones at the top of this movement couldn't come off their high horse and give them to him. Instead of sitting back and pontificating about how bad his choices were after the fact.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The R3volution produced a lot of fruit, but sadly it failed to reach its full potential largely due to failed leadership at the top.

Interesting. Because I remember how the majority claimed that no leadership was wanted or needed. lol

 

[milgram]

 

[CaptUSA]

Trump has cut regulation, he has done his level best to slap down the EPA (the alphabet soup agency I am convinced is the single biggest threat to liberty), he has made former trading "partners" take notice that trade deals are no longer going to be one sided globalist affairs, he has done his level best to repeal Obamacare, providing EO relief when the establishment GOP sluts refused, in spite of his bluster he has stood by the second amendment, he is doing his level best to appoint constitutionalist judges throughout the federal judiciary, he has made peace overtures to NK and to Russia, thereby averting war that the establishment, represented by Hillary, wanted so badly...just to name a few things off the top of my head.

I'm not cheering him on, I'm giving credit where it's due.

As a whole, from a freedom perspective, we are better off, factually.

To think Hillary would have done any of that is irrational.

Ok, hang on a second. I give credit where credit is due. Cutting regulations is a big positive - but then he INCREASED regulations in other areas. New artificial trade barriers imposed by government are regulations AND he supports cronyist subsidization. He cut income taxes. Fantastic! But then he increased spending! As Ron Paul has always said: SPENDING IS THE REAL TAX! Cutting taxes while increasing spending just shifts the burden. You'll see that in the future, even if you want to ignore it now. You thinking he is averting war??!!!! Holy shyte! He's boosting the military more than ever before! He's also dropping bombs at an increased rate. He's engaging with foes which is a huge positive, but let's not be naïve - he's still working the neocon angle of strategically plotting out the chessboard - he's just using a different strategy. Globalism?? The term, "Globalism" is completely misconstrued. The liberty movement used to be FOR global trade and against global government. Trade globally, govern locally. This "MAGA" stuff with trade is the exact opposite.

I gave the same credit to Obama. Obama initiated several criminal justice reforms and began investigations of police misconduct. Sure, it was to mixed results, but we're giving credit here where it is due. Obama cut the ridiculous space program and allowed privatization. He commuted the sentence of whistle-blower Private Manning. He was pretty good on individual rights for gays (even though he acted as if government was granting those rights instead of protecting them). His administration was comparatively lax on enforcing federal drug laws and many states were able to turn things around towards liberty during his terms. Even on guns, Obama repealed the law that prevented people from carrying in national parks and another that prevented people from carrying on Amtrak trains.


But does that mean he was a positive for liberty??!! Hell no! Far from it! You may prefer the right boot to the left one, but the State is still growing! And it's growing FASTER than ever! Would Hillary have done that? Sure she would have liked to, but with a Republican congress, she would have faced tough opposition. And the liberty movement would be united in that opposition. Instead, we have many of you getting distracted by the "show". Yeah, it's entertaining, but the State is still growing and liberty is shrinking. The power of the Executive branch is expanding while local governance is diminishing.

Just like with Obama, let's give credit where it's due, but let's not lose sight of the authoritarian at the helm. Our opposition to the State is fracturing because of some stupid cult of personality. I know you can recognize the hypocrisy here. If the left boot was doing this same stuff, you'd all be with us. Ron Paul is special in that he is only loyal to the principles of liberty - which is why he still shares our opposition to the current administration.

The man who gives you pennies from his right hand while stealing dollars from his left is no better than the man who gives you pennies from his left and steals dollars from your right. The areas where you think Trump is benefitting the cause of liberty are miniscule compared to the areas where he's destroying the cause. I'm just being consistent.