Ron Paul on Immigration

[christagious]

Given the exponential growth rate of Spanish speaking immigrants, there has been a great need for Spanish teachers, with many teachers getting some great perks such as sign on bonuses and loan forgiveness.

I'm almost finished with school (University of Akron) and I'm majoring in Spanish and Education. If Ron Paul is elected, can I expect to suffer because of his immigration policy? I'm all for Ron Paul, and I agree with him on EVERY single issue EXCEPT for immigration, mostly because I don't want to think that I made the wrong career decision.

And, does anybody find it contradictory that he is against wasting tax dollars on expensive projects, such as war, but he is for building a fence on the border which will cost A LOT of money? It would be less expensive to put our armed forces on our borders when we bring them home from the middle east. Besides, when Ron Paul is president and he changes our foreign policy, Latin America will be able to run itself the way the people see fit so there won't be corportate interests put forth by the US. So immigration will slow down anyways, you have to think, why is Latin American in so much poverty? Because of US interference.

Anyways, if anybody could answer my questions about the teacher thing and the border fence, I'd appreciate it.

 

[Corydoras]

I think there will STILL be a great need for Spanish teachers because of free trade and because there are so many Spanish-speaking immigrants here already.

He is NOT for a border fence. And putting the military on the border violates Posse Comitatus. HOWEVER, he favors highly increased border enforcement.

He says this very clearly in the Nashua Telegraph interview, which is unfortunately one hour long but absolutely the best thing any supporter can watch.
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071108/NEWS08/311080111

 

[Paulitician]

Why do you think you would suffer from Ron Paul's immigration policy? Will there still not be children of legal immigrants who'd need help with their English? I think there will. To my knowledge, Ron Paul isn't the biggest proponent for a fence. However, you have to consider two things: the American people are for it, and it could save us wasting a lot of time and our dollars over time. So for those reasons, I think, Ron Paul is for it.

 

[vertesc]

Corydoras - IIRC RP voted FOR the border fence, because it counts as increased border security.

Not that it matters, the fence is being built so slowly and at such horrendous cost...


In any case, his stance on immigration doesn't seem to be damaging to your job prospects to me. AFAIK he says we should look at the incentives we've set up. Right now, it's a complete pain in the ass to apply for citizenship from within or without. Either way, your odds of getting in are slim, and it costs a lotta money and time. Meanwhile, we extend our government benefits to anyone this side of the border. Is it any surprise that people skip the application and just show up? What do they have to lose??

My understanding of RP's stance on the issue is, make it MUCH EASIER to apply for US citizenship from abroad than as an illegal. Make it very difficult to get into the country as an illegal. And remove the caps on legal immigration. This way the incentive would be to stay where you are and apply from there... and only an idiot would bother trying to sneak in and apply from here.

So to my understanding, this would mean we'd still have plenty of spanish speaking immigrants - maybe more, because the legal routes will be uncapped and much easier. What's more, those immigrants would be paying taxes. Your job seems pretty safe to me.

 

[majinkoola]

RP is for fiscal conservatism, but he is also for following the constitution, and part of the federal government's responsibility is to protect the borders. He's not always against spending money, he's said that he would have gone to war in WWII, which would have cost a lot of money. Also he is for the rule of law, and allowing people who have broken the law to be rewarded through amnesty does not help that.

However, he has said in the past that the fence is the least important part of immigration reform, and that removing social services for illegal immigrants would remove the magnets, and I certainly agree with that.

I don't think that all of Latin America is in poverty because of US interference. There's a lot of non-US corruption in politics in those countries.

The country needs to do something about illegal immigration, it certainly won't just go away. Being from Arizona, I've known it has been a problem for a long time. Other states are finally starting to wake up to the problem because it's spreading across the country.

 

[snaFU]

If there is a demand I don't see why you would left out of a job. I believe his immigration policy was in response to the growing threat of SPP actually being able to form.

 

[Corydoras]

Corydoras - IIRC RP voted FOR the border fence, because it counts as increased border security.

Hmm... you're right. But in the Nashua Telegraph interview, he distinctly said he doesn't support a physical fence-- unless somehow I misunderstood him.

 

[PennCustom4RP]

Whatever happened to immigrants learning English as required of them to gain citizenship? Unless their intent is to never assimilate.

 

[nickcoons]

IIRC RP voted FOR the border fence, because it counts as increased border security.

He voted for the bill that contained building the fence because of other things in the bill, not because he was for the fence. In the third GOP debates, he said that the fence was the least important reason he voted for that particular bill.

 

[braumstr]

What is the logical rationale in 2008 of continuing birth right citizenship?

I would argue that its counter productive (no pun intended)

It provides great incentive for the poor masses to violate our laws to gain access to social benefits that we are taxed to provide.

Either way, i think one of the things that does not get discussed is that ending illegal immigration will actually benefit people by making sure they earn a fair wage for their services. The dirty secret and at least one reason why illegals do "jobs Americans wont do" is because Americans will not work under the table for wages below the minimum permitted by law with no benefits.

Bring it all into the light, and not only will our immigration problems be better controlled, our borders be more secure but the migrant workers who come legally will earn a fair wage and be protected from unfair and unsafe labor practices by the full force of US law.

But somehow if you hold the view that we need to end illegal immigration and expand LEGAL IMMIGRATION, YOU are the racist xenophobic bigot with snakes coming out of your forehead?

I will give the amnesty crowd kudos for turning the argument upside down. The plans I have seen provide even more incentive by "forgiving" law breakers en mass thus providing even more incentive and yet more empty promises to secure the border and hold employers accountable.

You have to take away incentives. Starting with birthright citizenship..extending to social services(you obviously have to provide emergency care to all but I think the next step is for the person to be sent home), and finally employment. Employers caught breaking the law by either hiring illegals or even worse not paying them a legal wage or having them work in conditions that violate law have to be held accountable consistently......

Another thing, I do not think you can do any of this without addressing trade and agriculture subsidies.

 

[kry0nik]

I thought we should deport illegal's and never grant amnesty until I went through the border last week, and had my constitutional rights DENIED by ICE agents. I witnessed first hand how we are as much to blame for the problem as the Mexicans who came here "illegally". Our immigration policy is so messed up, its cumbersome, unfairly restrictive and creates criminals out of people who are clearly not indenting any disrespect. I personally would trade a hard working Mexican immigrant any day for the lazy American who thinks by birth he or she is entitled to a living.

I respect those who jump through the hoops to get here and become citizens. I respect the need for border security. But at the same time you can't fix the border without fixing our immigration and naturalization policy. The way to secure the border is NOT to take American citizens 4th, and 14th amendments away and further restrict your first amendment rights.

 

[braumstr]

I am not sure what you mean exactly by taking rights away. No one here is advocating that.

Your preference for mexicans of one flavor over americans for another, is nice to know, but really I do not see how this flows into the debate.

The rule of law has a place here. I think LEGAL immigration should be expanded.

I know what you mean about how messed up immigration can be. I could go into lengthy stories about how me and my wife sat in New Orleans and Jacksonville trying to straighten out a mess with her green card. But I view that as a separate issue.

 

[kry0nik]

I am not sure what you mean exactly by taking rights away. No one here is advocating that.

Your preference for mexicans of one flavor over americans for another, is nice to know, but really I do not see how this flows into the debate.

The rule of law has a place here. I think LEGAL immigration should be expanded.

I know what you mean about how messed up immigration can be. I could go into lengthy stories about how me and my wife sat in New Orleans and Jacksonville trying to straighten out a mess with her green card. But I view that as a separate issue.

I meant what I said. Its not that I advocate our rights being taken away. The simple truth is that they ALREADY HAVE! I'm not making up an anecdote. If you go through a border check point AS AN AMERICAN CITIZEN, the ICE has complete power over you as they do with a foreign born person. I had no idea this was the case until ICE agents decided to be pricks to me, take my 16 year old cousin from my custody because she had a problem with her visa. Of course I was proud that my rights were non-existant, and proud to have those boys in blue call her a threat to national security.

I don't advocate blanket amnesty because I think everyone has the right to disregard our laws. But at the same time you can't operate immigration like the crooked city cop looking to entrap or make a buck off your unfamiliarity with local laws either.

The problem is you can't seperate the two issues. The illegal immigration is in part caused by the political and economic conditions of our neighbor, combined with our laws being designed to turn a lot of well meaning people into criminals. My cousin's visa problem should have had an easy fix. Rather they arrested her and almost deported a MINOR in nueva laredo with no advocate, guardian or counsel. It wasn't until I got an international lawyer on the phone did the ICE agent change his tune and agree to release her to me.

I don't prefer any non-american over an american. I prefer America to be the best, friendliest, and treat every guest coming to this country better than anyone else. Mexican immigration is a hell of a lot more sane and reasonable than on our side of the river. That should bother every american that we can't do any better. And it SHOULD bother everyone that through legislation, congress decided our constitution and our rights are worthless!