Ron Paul on Immigration. Do you agree or disagree with Ron Paul?

[Kregisen]

You assume too much. This isn't just about jobs. It's about overcrowding prisons, hospitals, and schools. It's about draining tax payer dollars through social services. It's also about criminal elements crossing over. Our fugitives from the law cross into their country and they have a right to deal with them, so should we. It's a problem much bigger than you know.

When someone you know gets mowed down and killed at the tender age of 22 by an illegal driving a company truck DRUNK with FOUR priors - look me up - you'll be singing a different tune.

That's a very neo-con-ish argument. That argument right there is against IMMIGRATION, not illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong because of national security reasons.....why even bring up jobs, taxes and crimes? ALL immigratns affect that.....very horrible argument. (which is why the neo-cons use it)

 

[ClayTrainor]

I agree with the young Ron Paul.

YouTube - Ron Paul on the Deficit, Government Spending, and Military Industrial Complex (1988)

 

[Kregisen]

Because there would not be enough unskilled labor jobs to support the numbers of unskilled laborers in America. Without welfare, they would be forced to return, or go to other countries where such labor is needed.

Up until the recession, there have been more than enough jobs for all of them (I work with some, I see literally dozens standing on street corners around here...)

The wage for labor jobs in much of Mexico is about $3 a day....even in a recession like now, most are still taking their chances landing a job that pays 20 times more.

What's all the welfare they're even getting? Everyone also takes vaguely about the welfare state the reason why they're coming, but never even mention what exactly they're coming for.

Food stamps? Unemployment checks? What? (I don't even know what our welfare state entails....I've never received any of it)

 

[Fredom101]

You can't make claims that the US has the resources to handle 3 billion people and not have some sort of proof and then ask her to respond to that. Fact is, open boarders aren't possible. No matter how nice it sounds, it just can't happen.

This isn't an argument either. We have to get back to first principles. Why are people trying to get into this country illegally? Welfare! Why in the world would we want to focus our efforts on preventing these people from coming here when the root cause of the problem is the welfare state? Preventing people from getting here is anti-liberty, and it keeps our focus on the wrong thing.

Start with the welfare state, otherwise, you're just promoting statism.

 

[Fredom101]

Up until the recession, there have been more than enough jobs for all of them (I work with some, I see literally dozens standing on street corners around here...)

The wage for labor jobs in much of Mexico is about $3 a day....even in a recession like now, most are still taking their chances landing a job that pays 20 times more.

What's all the welfare they're even getting? Everyone also takes vaguely about the welfare state the reason why they're coming, but never even mention what exactly they're coming for.

Food stamps? Unemployment checks? What?

Free schools, free healthcare, unemployment checks, actual welfare checks, and yes, food stamps...very easy to obtain a SS# once they get here, but even if they don't, they still get a lot of goodies from the gubmint.

 

[charrob]

What's best is for America is to NOT become China or India with a population in the billions and not enough resources to handle it.

+1 -very much agree with you: in my lifetime the population has gone from about 150 million to, today, over 300 million: so it's more than doubled. Almost all of this overpopulation has come from immigration. And increases in population correlate to decreases in standard of living. (Years ago, with a decreased population, life was more pleasant imo.)

If it were up to me, i'd stop all legal and illegal immigration. The country is full.

 

[BuddyRey]

Ron Paul says, "A nation without borders is no nation at all."

For crying out loud, man, you say that like it's a bad thing!

Governments/nation-states are the biggest extinguishers of personal and economic liberty. Peaceful exchange and free enterprise are the most effective tools for the preservation of same.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

+1 -very much agree with you: in my lifetime the population has gone from about 150 million to, today, over 300 million: so it's more than doubled. Almost all of this overpopulation has come from immigration. And increases in population correlate to decreases in standard of living. (Years ago, with a decreased population, life was more pleasant imo.)

If it were up to me, i'd stop all legal and illegal immigration. The country is full.

This is non-sense. Why is the Chinese standard of living rising if they keep increasing their population in a smaller landmass than that of the US? So infuriating!!! It's economic policies that are causing our standard of living to decline, not some amount of people (and I'm not even going to address how ridiculous it is to assume that we have had 150 million immigrants arrive in the country in the last 50 years).

 

[The Patriot]

I strongly agree with Ron Paul. Eliminate services for illegals, secure the border, and end birthright citizenship.

 

[Fredom101]

+1 -very much agree with you: in my lifetime the population has gone from about 150 million to, today, over 300 million: so it's more than doubled. Almost all of this overpopulation has come from immigration. And increases in population correlate to decreases in standard of living. (Years ago, with a decreased population, life was more pleasant imo.)

If it were up to me, i'd stop all legal and illegal immigration. The country is full.

Would you be willing to shoot people that try to get in?

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

Would you be willing to shoot people that try to get in?

No, most people aren't. That's why they give the State permission to do it in their place. Most people don't rob people, but people don't hesitate to let someone else rob for them, etc.

I think this forum reinforces my belief that this country is not ready for a revolution. Some of their ideas are in complete contradiction, and actually undermine what their supposed beliefs are.

 

[charrob]

The USA could easily hold 3 billion people if the market was left to its devices. Thats why the solution is not to go to the gun, but to let go of the gun and let individuals live freely, with their natural rights intact.
.

are you out of your mind? who would want to live in that infestation of humans? dear God, we wouldn't be able to move!

 

[Fredom101]

No, most people aren't. That's why they give the State permission to do it in their place. Most people don't rob people, but people don't hesitate to let someone else rob for them, etc.

I think this forum reinforces my belief that this country is not ready for a revolution. Some of their ideas are in complete contradiction, and actually undermine what their supposed beliefs are.

BINGO!! Exactly. This is what it all comes down to. Frustrating, I know, but think on the positive side, of all the posters here on a POLITICAL forum who get it, and understand what true freedom is. It's actually encouraging.

 

[Kregisen]

Free schools, free healthcare, unemployment checks, actual welfare checks, and yes, food stamps...very easy to obtain a SS# once they get here, but even if they don't, they still get a lot of goodies from the gubmint.

Free schools and free healthcare? Obviously emergency room can be free, and public schools are heavily subsizided but are they free?

 

[dannno]

I agree with Ron Paul, I don't believe in open borders or amnesty in our current situation, though I wouldn't be against either if we returned to a more free society with no welfare state.

 

[Austrian Econ Disciple]

I agree with Ron Paul, I don't believe in open borders or amnesty in our current situation, though I wouldn't be against either if we returned to a more free society with no welfare state.

How exactly does imposing a Berlin-esque Wall help us return to a more free society? I've asked this question so many times. What policies are people willing to institute to cut down on illegal immigration? Employer databases? Biometic IDs? Papers you have to carry with you at all times with a stamp of approval from the State? What is your solution?

 

[FrankRep]

Free schools and free healthcare? Obviously emergency room can be free, and public schools are heavily subsizided but are they free?

77 border state hospitals declare bankruptcy due to illegal immigration

Illegal immigrants are bankrupting our hospitals

Hospitals Feeling Strain From Illegal Immigrants

L.A. Emergency Rooms Full of Illegal Immigrants

Rising health care costs put focus on illegal immigrants

The news stories go on and on.

 

[Kregisen]

77 border state hospitals declare bankruptcy due to illegal immigration

Illegal immigrants are bankrupting our hospitals

Hospitals Feeling Strain From Illegal Immigrants

L.A. Emergency Rooms Full of Illegal Immigrants

Rising health care costs put focus on illegal immigrants

The news stories go on and on.

Ummmm......yeah we established that.

Obviously emergency room can be free

 

[charrob]

This is non-sense. Why is the Chinese standard of living rising if they keep increasing their population in a smaller landmass than that of the US?

perhaps i should have said "quality of life". China is an overcrowded cesspool, irregardless of their abilities to own materialistic items. When living in a 20-story ant colony, no materialistic item could ever equate to the ability to put a house on a 10-acre piece of property with a stream running through it, deer grazing, and birds singing. THIS: the Chinese will never have because they're overpopulated.

(and I'm not even going to address how ridiculous it is to assume that we have had 150 million immigrants arrive in the country in the last 50 years).

• For every white American who dies, one white American is born. (exactly replacement rate).
• For every hispanic American who dies, nine hispanics are born.
  

 

[heavenlyboy34]

For crying out loud, man, you say that like it's a bad thing!

Governments/nation-states are the biggest extinguishers of personal and economic liberty. Peaceful exchange and free enterprise are the most effective tools for the preservation of same.

You are a WINNER, sir! (you left out private ownership of land, though)