Ron Paul on Immigration. Do you agree or disagree with Ron Paul?

[Ekrub]

This is non-sense. Why is the Chinese standard of living rising if they keep increasing their population in a smaller landmass than that of the US? So infuriating!!! It's economic policies that are causing our standard of living to decline, not some amount of people (and I'm not even going to address how ridiculous it is to assume that we have had 150 million immigrants arrive in the country in the last 50 years).

The Chinese have population controls, and you never addressed the point I made about our country turning more socialist with an influx of immigrants. What's your take on how we handle something like that?

 

[ClayTrainor]

77 border state hospitals declare bankruptcy due to illegal immigration Welfare state

Illegal immigrants Welfare State is bankrupting our hospitals

Hospitals Feeling Strain From Illegal Immigrants Welfare State

L.A. Emergency Rooms Full of Illegal ImmigrantsWelfare recipients

Fixed titles for accuracy.

The news stories go on and on.

Trust the media!

 

[charrob]

Would you be willing to shoot people that try to get in?

If we put up proper border securities, they wouldn't be able to get in.

I harbor no bad feelings towards immigrants; my anger is against Americans who hire them. I'd like to see penalities and prison-time increased for any person who hires them; that is the easiest way for them to leave; no deportations necessary.

 

[axiomata]

If we put up proper border securities, they wouldn't be able to get in.

I harbor no bad feelings towards immigrants; my anger is against Americans who hire them. I'd like to see penalities and prison-time increased for any person who hires them; that is the easiest way for them to leave; no deportations necessary.

The proper border securities don't happen to be M240s do they?

 

[ClayTrainor]

The anti-free-market sentiment is strong in this thread.

 

[dannno]

I harbor no bad feelings towards immigrants; my anger is against Americans who hire them. I'd like to see penalities and prison-time increased for any person who hires them; that is the easiest way for them to leave; no deportations necessary.

Well the problem is that most here have no problem with voluntary transactions, including myself. Hiring somebody is a voluntary transaction. You support putting somebody in prison for participating in a voluntary transaction and in my mind that makes you immoral. You are kidnapping them and putting them in a cage when they didn't hurt anybody else.

You have to look to the reasons why people hire immigrants - it is because legal employment costs are too high. If it didn't cost so much to hire somebody legally (required insurance, payroll taxes, etc) then it wouldn't be beneficial to hire immigrants in favor of non-immigrants for most jobs.

It's the government's fault.. not the immigrants, and most certainly not those who provide jobs for said immigrants.

 

[AlexMerced]

If we put up proper border securities, they wouldn't be able to get in.

I harbor no bad feelings towards immigrants; my anger is against Americans who hire them. I'd like to see penalities and prison-time increased for any person who hires them; that is the easiest way for them to leave; no deportations necessary.

I still don't understand people fixation with nominal wages, lower wages arn't bad.

In the recession of 1920 wages droped 11% but prices dropped 40% due to tax decreases and wage decreases, which equals a raise...

 

[ClayTrainor]

If we put up proper border securities, they wouldn't be able to get in.

How many machine guns, communist style walls, and land mines do you think it will take?

I harbor no bad feelings towards immigrants; my anger is against Americans who hire them.

They hire them because they work cheaper than Americans. what do you think will happen to the price of the goods and services that these businesses provide, when you get your wish?

I'd like to see penalities and prison-time increased for any person who hires them; that is the easiest way for them to leave; no deportations necessary.

Wow... how tyrannical of you.

I think cages are for violent people that harm others, not entrepreneurs that try to provide products and services to society, at a reasonable cost.

 

[Deborah K]

Deborah, this is equivalent to covering your ears and screaming. You didn't respond to his points. I'm actually interested in what you have to say about the points he made. Otherwise, it's not a debate, and it makes you look very closed-minded.

His whole diatribe involved stereotyping. Why should I respond to it when my issue is singular?

 

[charrob]

How many machine guns, communist style walls, and land mines do you think it will take?

not many. Once enough employers are penalized, illegals will no longer come in the numbers they now come.

They hire them because they work cheaper than Americans. what do you think will happen to the price of the goods and services that these businesses provide, when you get your wish?

-hopefully these goods and services will go up in price so that low-skilled Americans can once again earn a living wage.

 

[ClayTrainor]

not many. Once enough employers are penalized, illegals will no longer come in the numbers they now come.

When you penalize drug dealers, does that stop people from dealing or buying drugs?

Also, it's going to take a lot of guns and violence to force people to do what you want and throw them into cages, whether you want to admit it or not.

-hopefully these goods and services will go up in price so that low-skilled Americans can once again earn a living wage.

They will go up, and poor people will also pay the higher prices. I guess you probably don't care too much about them though, as long as employers are getting thrown behind bars.

 

[Live_Free_Or_Die]

Well the problem is that most here have no problem with voluntary transactions, including myself. Hiring somebody is a voluntary transaction. You support putting somebody in prison for participating in a voluntary transaction and in my mind that makes you immoral. You are kidnapping them and putting them in a cage when they didn't hurt anybody else.

You have to look to the reasons why people hire immigrants - it is because legal employment costs are too high. If it didn't cost so much to hire somebody legally (required insurance, payroll taxes, etc) then it wouldn't be beneficial to hire immigrants in favor of non-immigrants for most jobs.

It's the government's fault.. not the immigrants, and most certainly not those who provide jobs for said immigrants.

If you do not support throwing the Constitution out the window and trumping peoples Constitutional guarantees to voluntarily contract with implied powers you are unAmerican and anti-government filth. You don't have a right to contract. Government hasn't granted you that right.

These people are criminals who do not deserve to live among upstanding citizens.

 

[charrob]

When you penalize drug dealers, does that stop people from dealing or buying drugs?

the analogy is illogical; drug addiction requires medical intervention to effectively treat--there is no such 'addiction' involved for standard employers.

Also, it's going to take a lot of guns and violence to force people to do what you want and throw them into cages.

-hopefully not; hopefully employers will learn real fast that if they want to hire, they must hire citizens legally here.

They will go up, and poor people will also pay the higher prices. I guess you probably don't care too much about them though.

true-- but the 'poor' people will now be able to afford things because they are now making a living wage since they no longer have to compete with illegal immigrants.

 

[LibertyEagle]

The anti-free-market sentiment is strong in this thread.

Are you implying that Ron Paul is anti-free market?

 

[axiomata]

the analogy is illogical; drug addiction requires medical intervention to effectively treat--there is no such 'addiction' involved for standard employers.



-hopefully not; hopefully employers will learn real fast that if they want to hire, they must hire citizens legally here.



true-- but the 'poor' people will now be able to afford things because they are now making a living wage since they no longer have to compete with illegal immigrants.

your use of the phrase 'living wage' scares me

 

[Kludge]

Just out of curiosity, do any females here support open borders (less the obvious one )? I never realize we have more than a couple female members until either an immigration or abortion thread comes up.

 

[LibertyEagle]

Ron Paul on Border Security and Immigration.



Ron Paul on Border Security


Ron Paul.com:


A nation without borders is no nation at all. After decades of misguided policies America has now become a free-for-all. Our leaders betrayed the middle class which is forced to compete with welfare-receiving illegal immigrants who will work for almost anything, just because the standards in their home countries are even lower.

If these policies are not reversed, the future is grim. A poor, dependent and divided population is much easier to rule than a nation of self-confident individuals who can make a living on their own and who share the traditions and values that this country was founded upon.

Ron Paul’s six point plan puts a stop to illegal immigration:

1. Physically secure our borders and coastlines. We must do whatever it takes to control entry into our country before we undertake complicated immigration reform proposals.

2. Enforce visa rules. Immigration officials must track visa holders and deport anyone who overstays their visa or otherwise violates U.S. law. This is especially important when we recall that a number of 9/11 terrorists had expired visas.

3. No amnesty. Estimates suggest that 10 to 20 million people are in our country illegally. That’s a lot of people to reward for breaking our laws.

4. No welfare for illegal aliens. Americans have welcomed immigrants who seek opportunity, work hard, and play by the rules. But taxpayers should not pay for illegal immigrants who use hospitals, clinics, schools, roads, and social services.

5. End birthright citizenship. As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be citizens, the incentive to enter the U.S. illegally will remain strong.

6. Pass true immigration reform. The current system is incoherent and unfair. But current reform proposals would allow up to 60 million more immigrants into our country, according to the Heritage Foundation. This is insanity. Legal immigrants from all countries should face the same rules and waiting periods.​

Ron Paul is right.

 

[LibertyEagle]

I have a question. How many of you in this thread who are for open borders, would like to see the Constitution and the U.S., for that matter, dissolved?

Just curious.

 

[Kludge]

I have a question. How many of you in this thread who are for open borders, would like to see the Constitution and the U.S., for that matter, dissolved?

Just curious.

About a third, I suspect.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=197986

 

[Deborah K]

That's a very neo-con-ish argument. That argument right there is against IMMIGRATION, not illegal immigration. Illegal immigration is wrong because of national security reasons.....why even bring up jobs, taxes and crimes? ALL immigratns affect that.....very horrible argument. (which is why the neo-cons use it)

No, all immigrants don't affect that. Unless of course you assume they are sponging off the system, which I don't. And my opinion about this is on the record in these forums, I am for legal immigration. They're not the same thing and trying to make them sound like they are is intellectually dishonest on your part.