Ron Paul on Ed & Elaine Brown -- reported in Concord Monitor (NH paper)

[Original_Intent]

I've followed government abuses of power for years. Anyone remember Ruby Ridge? Waco? The Feds are out of control, and there are few if any repercussions when their arrogance gets people hurt - or killed.

Whether or not the Browns broke the law isn't the issue. Neither is whether or not the law is just. The issue here is that in America, people are presumed innocent until proved guilty. I hope and pray every day that I don't turn on the TV and see tanks driving into Ed & Elaine Brown's home... like they've done before, to others.

That being said... I fear that Ron Paul's open support for the Browns is going to hurt his cause in the long run. But, if it does... maybe it just proves the nation deserves what it gets.

*sigh*

Read my last three or four comments and address them please.

Just saying "OMG we are screwed" is not a response.

I will say for the 4th time at least - NO downside!

 

[MsDoodahs]

don't let it get you down.

 

[MsDoodahs]

I will say for the 4th time at least - NO downside!

THAT is the attitude!

 

[Bradley in DC]

How? Paint me a worst case scenario?

For the same reason neither Dr. Paul nor us should make personal attacks, ever. For the same reason we shouldn't name anything for someone while they're still alive: they can still embarrass us.

We don't know these people (I don't at least). They could be crazy or do something terrible (taking revenge for Ruby Ridge and indiscriminately shooting people or something else crazy).

 

[JaylieWoW]

I've followed government abuses of power for years. Anyone remember Ruby Ridge? Waco? The Feds are out of control, and there are few if any repercussions when their arrogance gets people hurt - or killed.

Whether or not the Browns broke the law isn't the issue. Neither is whether or not the law is just. The issue here is that in America, people are presumed innocent until proved guilty. I hope and pray every day that I don't turn on the TV and see tanks driving into Ed & Elaine Brown's home... like they've done before, to others.

That being said... I fear that Ron Paul's open support for the Browns is going to hurt his cause in the long run. But, if it does... maybe it just proves the nation deserves what it gets.

*sigh*

I can't count the number of times I've gotten into a discussion with others regarding "income taxes" and their insistence and absolute unwaivering belief that we MUST pay taxes or else anarchy is sure to ensue. So, my usual answer is to tell them to research the history of income taxes and why they were necessary (as usual, a war). I also tell them it is important to understand that once the gov'ment gets a hold of money, they never let it go.

Also, something just as silly, are those who say, "but I get a refund every year".

"Um," I say, "don't you think its wrong of the government to take TOO much money from you?" They use it and don't pay you any interest for the use of YOUR money. People really think their income is a "co-ownership" and they have a duty to give the government 30% (in straight income taxes) and as much (or more) than 50% total in other taxes as well. These very same people complain about welfare, government waste, living paycheck to paycheck, and pork barreling but seem to be unable to make the connection. It completely astounds me how the link between all of these things is completely lost on them.

 

[MsDoodahs]

I don't know them either but it is my understanding that they are on their own property and their only violation is failure to submit to the income tax.

I don't believe they're shooting at anyone.

Based on what I've read, they've been very clear about their intention to defend themselves.

 

[dspectre]

The Problem is THERE IS NO LAW for taxes.

The reason the MSM has been very careful is that even if they smear Paul unjustly, the truth may get out. Besides if the Brown's go to prison, what will people believe? Oh they are just nuts for not pay their taxes....

If the Brown's go on a rampage, I think Ron Paul will disagree with it.

 

[Bradley in DC]

I don't know them either but it is my understanding that they are on their own property and their only violation is failure to submit to the income tax.

I don't believe they're shooting at anyone.

Based on what I've read, they've been very clear about their intention to defend themselves.

No, nothing violent yet, and that's good. But Dr. Paul's campaign is bigger then this couple's issues.

 

[Original_Intent]

If you are gonna make an omelette, you gotta break some eggs.

Ron Paul is not in a position to play it safe, and I don't think he would dance around issues even if he were leading.

I have complete confidence that he knows what he is doing by making the statements. Ithink any attempt by the MSM to marginalize RP or make him look whacko on this will backfire. If they ignore it (which I think is likely) no harm done.

 

[MsDoodahs]

I agree that the campaign is bigger than that couple's issue HOWEVER - that couple's issue is really an issue for ALL OF US.

Any airtime Dr. Paul gets to do his thing and teach americans about the issue is time well used IMO.

I understand the fear factor, I just don't agree that it's something we need to fear.

I do feel that, if the campaign has him do a "retraction," then THAT would be something to fear would make him appear weak.

Of course, it might trick the MSM into going for it and asking him questions about the issue...hmmm....

 

[BLS]

How? Paint me a worst case scenario?

Three possibilities: The MSM ignore it, they report on it favoring RON Paul's position (Ha!) or they go attack dog on it.

The first possibility hass null effect.

The second possibility ain't gonna happen but if it did, positive effect.

Third possibility Ron Paul responds as I have stated a couple of times above - where can they go with that?

The people that are worrying about this are not thinking it through. Please show me a downside scenario other than just saying it was dumb.

Give Dr. Paul a little credit.

Nice blinders.

Ok...first of all, number 1 already failed..it's all over the place.
2...ain't gonna happen...they'll use it to paint him as a fruitloop. Maybe they'll get him to say Waco wasn't Koresh's fault too (which he has said...)
3 - Where can they go? Um...Let me give you 1 solid example.

1 guys reply to this information on another board I visit.

"Yeah...it seems that every time Paul begins to attract my attention w/all the stuff that I agree w/him on, he says something really stoopid, like this.

IMO he has been officially relegated to Ross Perot status...stir the pot and put the people who I might actually vote for on the spot."

 

[dspectre]

If you fear Ron Paul's credibility, PLEASE DONATE.

 

[MsDoodahs]

Nice blinders.

Ok...first of all, number 1 already failed..it's all over the place.
2...ain't gonna happen...they'll use it to paint him as a fruitloop. Maybe they'll get him to say Waco wasn't Koresh's fault too (which he has said...)
3 - Where can they go? Um...Let me give you 1 solid example.

1 guys reply to this information on another board I visit.

"Yeah...it seems that every time Paul begins to attract my attention w/all the stuff that I agree w/him on, he says something really stoopid, like this.

IMO he has been officially relegated to Ross Perot status...stir the pot and put the people who I might actually vote for on the spot."

It's all over the place? Really? Where?

Um...He's right about Waco.

So what did you post to counter your board friend's comment?

 

[Birdlady]

I only read a few of the replies so please don't flame me for repeating something.

It's known that Ron Paul wants to get rid of the IRS and Federal Reserve.

The Browns are in trouble only because of those 2 private companies. They still pay their local, property, and state taxes as far as I know of.

Therefore, if Ron Paul would get rid of those, the Browns should get a full pardon.

The media just likes to use buzz words like "tax evaders" "militia members" "conspiracy theorists". Once you can wake people up to those buzz words they don't work anymore.

Unless this gets on CNN or FOX News no one will even know about it. People don't read the newspaper anymore.

 

[dspectre]

Nice blinders.

Ok...first of all, number 1 already failed..it's all over the place.
2...ain't gonna happen...they'll use it to paint him as a fruitloop. Maybe they'll get him to say Waco wasn't Koresh's fault too (which he has said...)
3 - Where can they go? Um...Let me give you 1 solid example.

1 guys reply to this information on another board I visit.

"Yeah...it seems that every time Paul begins to attract my attention w/all the stuff that I agree w/him on, he says something really stoopid, like this.

IMO he has been officially relegated to Ross Perot status...stir the pot and put the people who I might actually vote for on the spot."

The difference now between Ross Perot and now is that the MSM isn't as powerful with the internet. People trust it less and less as time goes by. Even if Ron Paul was less bold in his statements, they would still label him a kook.

If people are afraid to vote for someone because they are afraid of being associated with someone who is fringe, or might be strange, or the candidate might lose, well yeah I hate to say this, but we deserve the government we get.

 

[mconder]

This is when they start calling your home a "compound."

 

[AZJV]

Please watch this documentary. It will explain everything. It doesn't just throw out statements, it takes you right to the lines in the tax code.
this can be a very dry subject, but they manage to make it interesting with wonderful animations. It is a must watch doc. on the legality of taxes.

Theft By Deception - Deciphering The Federal Income Tax 1 hr 28 mins
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8325647335088938687

 

[MsDoodahs]

This is when they start calling your home a "compound."

<shiver> yep

 

[FluffyUnbound]

I don't agree with Congressman Paul's stance on the Browns, and I think his comparison to Gandhi is hyperbole at best.

But in terms of the likely criticism he is going to receive, I'd say this: Many Democrats have made no bones about standing up for Native American activists who have actually killed FBI agents during their protest actions. They've made no bones about standing up for Black Panthers who engaged in blatant criminal conspiracies and came very close to declaring open armed insurrection against the government of the United States. If it's OK for them to stand up for "misunderstood idealists" like those, Paul can stand up for the Browns. Even if I wouldn't.

 

[BLS]

It's all over the place? Really? Where?

Um...He's right about Waco.

So what did you post to counter your board friend's comment?

OK Genius...lets go over this again.

1. How did you hear about it? Would you REALLY like for me to find you 5 different links, post them here and then degrade you some more, or do you just wanna 'google' it?

2. Whether or not he's right about Waco...if Ron Paul came out and said Waco was a conspiracy and Koresh was right, the Feds were wrong, etc., his campaign would BE OVER. END OF STORY.

3. Here's my post

"First off, I'd like to state that I think it takes GIANT BALLS to come out and support these people during a Candidacy for President. I also think it's stupid, but the man NEVER wavers from his principles, and to me that says alot.

Ron Pauls' shtick is and has always been that the Constitution does not allow the Federal Government to collect Income Taxes, and basically he states that our government is breaking our Constitution Rights every paycheck.

This is why he says these people are Heros. They are standing up against the government.
To them, this would be no different than if the government said "OK..we've had enough..we're taking away all of your guns", and these people held up in their home, guns drawn and said "you can have em when you pry em from my dead hands". We know they'd be right to fight, because the Constitution clearly provides American citizens the right to bear arms. To them...it's no different regarding taxes or guns.

Me personally, I don't know enough about Paul's stand on Income Taxes to cite what he's referencing in the Consitution, so I can't comment on whether I believe he's right or not.

I will do some looking."