Ron Paul needs to OWN the income tax issue: It is THE SINGLE #1 ISSUE for MANY Republicans

Karsten

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The other day I was talking with my "average Republican" friend, Ed. He was talking about the different tax plans, and seemed to favor Perry's flat tax plan. I mentioned that Ron Paul wants to abolish the IRS and the income tax and replace it with NOTHING. Ed was shocked, and all of the sudden was like "wow, I like this Ron Paul guy!" Ed is not a stupid guy, he's just never heard that Ron Paul is so opposed to taxation. Even Ron Paul does not bring it up that much in the debates, etc. This SINGLE ISSUE may have converted Ed, and there is nothing much more I needed to say.

Ron Paul has spent debate after debate talking about his $1 trillion budget cutting plan, but very little talking about taxes. Huckabee won Iowa in 2007, partially because of all the talk about his fair tax proposal. Herman Cain became popular because of his 9-9-9 plan (the average conservative was like 9% tax? That sounds good to me!) This campaign has only itself to blame for the discussion not being on Ron Paul's tax plan. Ron Paul needs to make it a centerpiece of his mailing/TV AD/ debate strategy. It is a winner in the Republican primaries, much more so than budget cutting is.
 
Ron Paul believes that we need to repeal the 16th Amendment so that working people can take home 100% of their paycheck. This action is not necessary, and as the Supreme Court ruled the 16th Amendment did not give the Congress any new power of taxation. So, to repeal the 16th Amendment would not take away any power of taxation from the Congress.

The purpose of the 16th Amendment was to lay down a protection for the people on their investments, in regards to the return of their capital, whether it be monetary or physical in nature.

Working people did not pay an income tax on their wages or salaries until 1943 when the Current Tax Payment Act was passed.

Why did they suddenly start? We are led to believe that the Victory Tax Act of 1942 brought the income levels down to $624, which encompassed many workers. Then with the passage of the Current Tax Payment Act the determination of wages, and the withholding of taxes on them, was given to the employers. Who then, because they had been withholding for Social Security for 5 yrs., promptly did not comprehend the difference between employment and services.

The Current Tax Payment Act was championed by Randolph E. Paul, General Counsel of the Treasury.

In an address to the Philadelphia Bar Association, on June 14,1943, Mr. Paul stated the following; (Copied from text of his speech)

The duty to withhold an amount for income and victory taxes is net imposed on all persons making payments of compensation for personal services rendered. First, there must exist, as in the Social Security tax, the employer-employee relationship, as distinguished from the relationship of independent contractors. Then even where this relationship exists, wage payments in certain enumerated types of occupations, are excepted from the withholding requirement. The three main peacetime groups to which this exception applies are (1) agricultural laborers, (2) domestic servants in private homes, college clubs or fraternities, and (3) casual laborers not engaged in the course of the employer's trade or business. In addition, the service pay of members of the military or naval forces is excluded from the withholding provisions. Services performed for a foreign government or instrumentality and services performed while outside of the United States, where a major part of the services for an employer during the calendar year is to be performed outside of the continental limits, are also excluded. In this regard, however, the law specifically states that services performed on or in connection with an American vessel, or as an employee of the War Shipping Administration, are not services performed outside the United States. A further exception, new to withholding, is made in the case of remuneration paid for Services performed by a minister of the gospel.

From the letters we have received at the Treasury while this Act was under consideration, I know that many persons, particularly in the lower wage levels, have been greatly alarmed at the prospect of having 20 percent of their salaries withheld from them. Much of this alarm arises from an inaccurate conception of the withholding provisions. For the most part these persons fail to recognize that withholding does not result in the imposition of any new tax but is merely a convenient method of paying the tax liability which existing law imposes.


Where Obama and the Democrats want to tout that Warren Buffet's secretary pays a higher tax rate on her salary than he pays on his capital gains, and thus the rates should be raised on capital gains, the issue to be raised should be that his secretary is being taxed on much more income than she should be according to the law.


I welcome any discussion.
 
as for me , i don't make enough money to pay income tax , just receive SS .

I have always thought that a flat tax would be the best plan , what i would do is give everyone working a $30,000 deduction , then pay 15% on anything over $30,000 , no deductions for anything , no one could have a grip about this as everyone gets the 1st 30k w/o tax.

as far a corp's go , i would tax then 20% on the income they report to their stockholders , i am tired of corp's telling their stockholders they made ( lets say $300 million ) , then tell the fed's they lost $100 million and get money back. i hear all the bs on tv about 48% of american's pay no income tax , as a fact about 49% of corp's pay no tax.

i do agree that it would be great if the tax rate was zero , but can someone tell me where we would get the money to run the goverment/defence dept's .

its like different states saying they have no income tax , like fla or texas , all states need a certain amount of money to operate.

check the home taxes in florida or texas , they are 3-4 times higher than arizona , where i am , we have a small income tax.

just my 2c


i would add most people do vote their pocketbook , but now the wars should be the big item also.
 
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I'm in favor of a fair tax plan with exemption to businesses earning under 1 million dollars a year. That way if you buy local you pay no taxes. Use a tiered system of three taxes. Global fair tax on imports/transactions. NAtional tax on any goods moving between states. And a final tax to the consumer at the counter. In this system a person buying from a local small business who in turn bought their goods from a local farmer would essentially pay no taxes whatsoever. This would allow pretty fair system to develop with the edge given to local economies.

But that's besides the point. Almost anything would be better than the progressive tax code. The real problem with the code is NOT the cause and effect results it's the nature of it. Because the system is complicated it's easily manipulated. We need the tax code to be VERY simple so that in order to make a change in it you have to make a pretty broad change which is very hard to do under in under the table deals in Washington. So whatever it is it needs to be simple. you can't after all have a free society if the people can't understand the laws. The people are the great oversight of the government. They can't do that because of article A subsection B clase nine highlighted on page ten to go back to line 17 of page 103 article subsection rejection elections and systematic convulsions of the eyelids and brain........ Wanna improve healthcare? Make the tax code 1 page and there will be a lot less hear attacks in April lol.

Anyways onto ron Paul. How does ron PAul connect with an audience concerned about taxation?

What type of audience is that? Typically one slightly more informed. maybe not political guru's but at least informed enough to pay some attention. Most of them are likely to be Republicans meaning a good portion of those is likely to disagree with Ron Paul on some social issues. (Some republicans want to BAN homosexual Marriage at the Federal level which is oil and water to a believer of freedom.) So many of these people would not be predisposed to listen to Paul in a positive light. What he needs to do as is always the case is FIRST connect with his audience. And that is easily achieved by Doctor Paul with passion. What issues incite passion? Liberty. Freedom. Principles.. Honesty.,.. And that can at the very least connect to a few of them. That can open their ears. Then he can deliver whatever tax policy mumbo jumbo he likes as long as it's simple. Americans by in large want what Ron Paul is selling. They just don't know he's selling it. He has to connect with them on basic levels first and then move onto other issues. That's most easily achieved by pushing liberty. When Ron Paul gives a campaign speech he can get into specifics and details. But on debates and television where 30 second spots are the key..... He needs to make the highlight reel and that starts by doing two things. Being passionate and defiant in defense of Liberty. And connect with his audience on basic principles ie liberty and freedom.

None of the other candidates can do that. They can try but they look cheap/ Mitt looks like he's trying to sell you a washing machine which will solve all your problems. Newt speaks with passion but there is always a "but" coming immediately after some talking points. Santorum is a decent guy but he doesn't get it. He's still a big government conservative and when he tried to deliver he only appeals to the most socially conservative people who aren't voting for Ron anyways. Paul can take heaps of voters out of those categories by passionately defending liberty. He's the only one on the stage. America is still connected to the idea even if they have forgotten what it means. I have tested this theory on any number of people. Freedom means different things to different people but if you can get their attetnion long enough to make them realize you want to increase theor freedoms it works pretty well.

I would also find a few campaign themes which can be easily connected back to more complicated ideas like the Fed. For example instead of saying the Fed is bad and they've stlen all our money and made us poor (which is totally over the heads of most people) I would simply tackle sound currency. "HAs anybody ever wondered by something used to cost a dollar and now it cost five?" ect ect. On minorities rights I would push drug laws because it not only has shock value but it's a liberty issue. Studies show that up to 70% of minorities smoke marijuanna. But more importantly imagien the economic argument regarding marujuanna.... HEre we have an entire group of people who have managed to build a decentralized underground economy. And they've done it despite the government. "Now whether you believe in legalizing marijuanna or not is beside the point. The point is that if left alone people will create industrie from scratch and it's the key to clawing their way out of poverty." So you hit a double edged sword there. First anyone who smokes MArijuanna is immediately voting for Ron Paul. Second people of an economic mind can make the connection to liberty and a free economy. And finally you put political pundits in the arena talking about you, Dr. Ron Paul, who is making a legitimate and intelligent case for liberty regarding drug laws. That put people like Hannity on the sword because he has to defend the Republican mantra against a free market lol. Hmmmmmm,. Those types of debates can reign in some of the more conservative people who still care about the rest of it. a closer look. I would hammer religion as well. "The greatest gift god gave to mankind is the gift of free will and who is the government to take it away" ect ect. You can't get someone's attention by whispering to them. Sometimes you have to shout in all directions and someone will listen.

It's all about simplicity. When you have two hours to talk by all means talk for two hours. When you have thirty seconds. ... Take your time... don't worry.... find one thing... relate it back to personal liberty and hammer away as it is natural to you.

BTW thank you Dr. Paul for standing up for this. I thought I was the only one who believed in liberty and freedom for a long time. Now I see all these people and it makes me quite proud. Good luck to all of you and remember this is only the beginning.
 
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You are missing the point.

Ron Paul wants working people to be able to receive 100% of their wages.

What I am pointing to is that the Law (16th Amendment) protects the actual working wages and salaries of workers. The pay received for the actual time spent working.

What the 16th Amendment allowed Congress to tax is the residual wages received by workers, fringe benefits in the form of vacation and holiday pay, sick pay and bonus compensation. These are paid from the profits of the business.

Also commissions, fees, and tips which are paid as on the result of the task done and not on the time actually spent doing the task.

Of this last group, Ron Paul is supporting that tips should not be taxed.

I would advocate that these workers should be able to claim the amount of these monies received that would cover the actual hours they have worked (regular & overtime) which would be covered under the minimum wage laws.

So a waitress who is paid $3/hr. + tips in a state that has a $7/hr. minimum wage could claim $4 for every regular hour worked and $7.5 for every hour of overtime worked for the amount of tips received as non taxable and for the federal income tax whatever the difference is between her base pay and the federal minimum.

A car salesman who works on a commission could claim the amount that would cover the actual hours worked under minimum wage as non taxable.

The issue that Ron Paul can expose to the American public, without having to repeal or pass any law, is that the Social Security Act taxed all monies paid for employment (actual & residual wages), while the federal and state income tax laws only tax monies paid for performing a service (residual wages).

All businesses are voluntarily contributing their employees wages to the government because the people do not understand the difference between employment and a service.
 
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