Ron Paul is very clear. He is NOT an Anarcho-Capitalist

[Bman]

Ron Paul understands you never go...



Truth is Utopian ideas are impossibilities.

 

[A Son of Liberty]

So, I guess this means that everything that Rand says publicly is exactly how he feels, also?

For the record, I've never really been worried about whether or not Ron was an an-cap... don't know why anyone would be.

 

[cajuncocoa]

ROFL, you guys STILL can't handle it.

You know what you should do? Transcribe the quote and put it in your sig line in 10pt. bold font.

 

[Cabal]

I haven't accepted the idea that tomorrow we can scratch it and have no government.

So, he's not a button-pushing abolitionist, but we already knew this--we've known he is a gradualist for a long time now, so this is no surprise, or great revelation. His inclusion of the 'tomorrow' caveat is interesting though. He doesn't say he hasn't accepted the idea that we can have no government; he says he hasn't accepted the idea that we can wake up tomorrow and have no government.

But, the one thing, I think, where my career was different from so many others... we have heard a lot of people give a good speech when they're running for office, and we say, 'you know, he really sounds good'. It takes about a week, or a month, or a year, and he just joins the gang up in Washington. I would say from what I believed in the very first time I ran for Congress in 1974 compared to now--or even when I left Congress a year ago--I would say that I'm much closer to anarcho-capitalism than I was when I went.

So, unlike the standard politician who ends up getting swallowed up by statism, and political corruption, RP, despite his long career in government, has actually come out much closer to anarchism than when he started. Bearing in mind, when he started, he was rubbing elbows with the likes of Rothbard. Judging by that, in context, I'd imagine if he were any closer, he'd be inside AnCap.

So, I've always gone in that direction, but I haven't sorted all this out. I don't--I haven't been able to figure this out about competing police forces. But, the answer to that, often if you have a corrupt police force whose private, you're going to have some problems--the world's not made up of perfect people. But, what happens when you have a gang at the federal level, and you have a hundred-thousand federal bureaucrats with guns? I mean, that is so bad that we have to reject that. But, I haven't gotten to the point where all problems can be solved without any government whatsoever. I think the competing police forces could become a problem.

So the only thing worth mentioning that is stalling him from going full-fledged AnCap seems to be the issue of competing 'police forces'. OTOH, he admits that the Feds aren't a real alternative either--he says flat out we have to reject that. Seems to me like he's struggling with how figuring out how 'police' could function in a stateless society. He is hardly the only one who has struggled with this issue... MANY anarchists that I have known have struggled with the same issue. So, it seems to boil down to a problem of practicality around 'police'. Not exactly a resounding endorsement of statism, while, again, rejecting Federal authority in the same breath.

In summation, RP perceives a need for some form of government. Guess what? So do quite a few anarchists I've known. Statism is a form of government, it is not the only conceivable form of government.

But of course the statists of the 'liberty movement' (god, that is just as comical as it is sad) will surely disregard all of this context. Just as they'll ignore how he goes on to speak out against political involvement as a priority, or primary goal. Just as you thought the most significant part of this interview was some deluded reinforcement of your statist inclinations, and not RP talking about the significance of a true understanding and comprehension of the message and philosophy of liberty. But that's not a big surprise either. I suppose it's difficult to appreciate the significance of such things when you have yet to grasp them yourself.

 

[LibertyEagle]

^^^
Blah, blah, blah.

“I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,” he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political action.” -- Ron Paul

 

[heavenlyboy34]

^^^
Blah, blah, blah.

“I have many friends in the libertarian movement who look down on those of us who get involved in political activity,” he acknowledged, but "eventually, if you want to bring about changes … what you have to do is participate in political action.” -- Ron Paul

I suspect you're right, but that quote isn't a good way to make your case. Rothbard LOVED being involved in politics, despite being an anarcho-capitalist and thoroughly anti-state. I never understood that, as I find politics abhorrent-extremely boring and pretentious at best. :/

 

[Keith and stuff]

I beleive that Ron Paul is a statist/minarist, as do you. I agree with you that he supports the government. However, he might be a anarcho-capitalist. Here is him saving he is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otK5NsuA4k

 

[heavenlyboy34]

I beleive that Ron Paul is a statist/minarist, as do you. I agree with you that he supports the government. However, he might be a anarcho-capitalist. Here is him saving he is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otK5NsuA4k

RP doesn't believe in the "Social Contract"? He said it with his own mouth there! My goodness! Don't tell teh conservatives around here, cuz they'll abandon RP!

 

[TheGrinch]

The most substantial difference between anarchists and minarchists is idealism vs. realism (and no, i don't simply mean pragmatism). I've even seen anarchists on here who admit that the world is nowhere near ready for anarchism.

I'll admit I'm guilty of taking part in what is nothing but a divisive debate, but really, should it be? Its great with me that we're all for dramatically less government as the first logical step. That is a big battle in itself.

 

[heavenlyboy34]

The most substantial difference between anarchists and minarchists is idealism vs. realism (and no, i don't simply mean pragmatism). I've even seen anarchists on here who admit that the world is nowhere near ready for anarchism.

I'll admit I'm guilty of taking part in what is nothing but a divisive debate, but really, should it be? Its great with me that we're all for dramatically less government as the first logical step. That is a big battle in itself.

Indeed! There's a great tendency toward unrealistic beliefs/expectations in both camps.

 

[TheGrinch]

Indeed! There's a great tendency toward unrealistic beliefs/expectations in both camps.

Well, now you're making me depressed that neither is particularly realistic at this juncture, but I'll be damned if we aren't making good progress considering the circumstances. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, because that wind is blowing in our direction. If you told me in 2008 that we'd even be this far...

 

[heavenlyboy34]

Well, now you're making me depressed that neither is particularly realistic at this juncture, but I'll be damned if we aren't making good progress considering the circumstances. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise, because that wind is blowing in our direction. If you told me in 2008 that we'd even be this far...

I don't mean to depress you. I'm just eternally cynical. When you compare the expectations of both sides to their results, it's not encouraging at all (assuming the goal is to affect meaningful change). RP has done a lot in the way of educating people, but he hasn't had any major legislative success and was not able to bring the public discourse toward liberty (except when he was a guest on various shows). Even the End The Fed/Audit the Fed efforts didn't provide us with anything we didn't already know or suspect and certainly didn't create mainstream interest in the issue. Please correct me if I'm leaving something out.

 

[Feeding the Abscess]

I beleive that Ron Paul is a statist/minarist, as do you. I agree with you that he supports the government. However, he might be a anarcho-capitalist. Here is him saving he is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7otK5NsuA4k

I love that interview. Some of the greatest 4 or so minutes of anti-state, pro-liberty message I've ever heard, and it's coming from a guy in his mid 70s in the middle of a presidential campaign.

That interview is the essence and soul of libertarian populism.

 

[erowe1]

I'm not an anarchocapitalist either. I'm just a guy who thinks taxation is theft, like Ron Paul.

 

[cajuncocoa]

RP doesn't believe in the "Social Contract"? He said it with his own mouth there! My goodness! Don't tell teh conservatives around here, cuz they'll abandon RP!

Many already have. They only use his words when it fits their agenda.

 

[Cap]

OP is silly, labels are meant to create divisions. Why even post this? Will this help or hinder the liberty movement? I think it hinders it.

 

[erowe1]

The most substantial difference between anarchists and minarchists is idealism vs. realism (and no, i don't simply mean pragmatism). I've even seen anarchists on here who admit that the world is nowhere near ready for anarchism.

Doesn't your second sentence contradict your first one? If anarchists agree with minarchists that anarchy can't happen in this real world, then how can that agreement be the most substantial difference between them?

 

[Christian Liberty]

There are a lot of people who are purely anti-state that still don't like the term "anarchist." i'm on a school computer right now and so can't get audio, but rejecting the term "anarchist" doesn't mean he supports a State.

That said, I tend to agree that Ron is a minarchist. But, who cares anyway?

 

[cajuncocoa]

There are a lot of people who are purely anti-state that still don't like the term "anarchist." i'm on a school computer right now and so can't get audio, but rejecting the term "anarchist" doesn't mean he supports a State.

That said, I tend to agree that Ron is a minarchist. But, who cares anyway?

Those who wish an-caps would disappear from RPF care.

 

[erowe1]

Those who wish an-caps would disappear from RPF care.

The solution is simple. All the ancaps here should just say they're not ancaps, just like Ron Paul.