tangent4ronpaul
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We can do this without the campaign through REVPAC or something else. It's not that expensive... lot less than the blimp - methinks!
-t
Ron Paul, Buy a 15 Minute Block Of TV Time. Subvert The MSM! Speak To The People!
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We can do this without the campaign through REVPAC or something else. It's not that expensive... lot less than the blimp - methinks!
-t
trey4sports
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erowe1
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It cost Obama $5 million. How much was the blimp? I read $600k somewhere.
Professor8000
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We could totally do $5 million for a nationally televised ad. But the money going to that would have to be separate from the rest of the campaign. We would not want to jeopardize the campaign's ability to target the key first primary states. This would have to be a targeted effort separate from the other fund raising operations.
tangent4ronpaul
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Didn't Obama broadcast on a bunch of channels at the same time in primetime? have some sort of a link to that 5 Million dollar figure?
I don't think we can raise 5 Million for something like this and it's probably a bad idea to try. I did hear back as to my inquiry about a ballpark estimate, and the rep said for a non-primetime slor (probably something like 2pm or 4pm) we would be looking at $30-40,000 to broadcast nationally for a half hour show. They do charge more for political ads, and it would have to be negotiated individually. There is no price sheet. To get them to give up a prime time slot, we'd have to offer millions. A afternoon slot wouldn't be bad during the Christmas holidays and should get a lot of viewership. But again, these slots are being filled NOW for that time period.
That $30-40,000 is play'd once and half an hour. Play it more than once or do an hour show, and the cost per play should come down.
I posted earlier about cluster ad costs, post 88 IIRC and again that should be nationally. One alternate idea might be to do 1 minute ads with 1 issue per ad and run a lot of them.
They have different clusters, and each cluster is composed of different channels the ad would play on. The adult cluster has 5 channels so the ad would play once on each channel for the price listed. Days they want $2,000 for a 30 second ad or $4,000 for a 60 second one. So that's about $800 per ad, per channel. One of the channels has 5 million viewers, all the rest have mid 20 million viewers.
Men's cluster is 10 channels and 5K/10K so roughly 1K per channel/ad for 60 seconds.
Woman's cluster is 5 channels and 1.2K/2.4K so roughly $500 per channel/ad for 60 seconds
News Cluster is 5 channels and 2.2K/4.4K so roughly $900 per channel/ad for 60 seconds
Two important notes about the News cluster - It does not include FOX, which we want as more republicans watch it, and it does include the weather channel, so if we are running ads during a hurricane or other inclaimant weather, we'll get a home run on viewership.
Entertainment cluster is 8 channels and 3.5K/7K or about $900 per channel/ad - note that this includes MTV, MTV2 and E! - so best for the youth vote.
Family cluster is 4 channels at 1.8K/3.6K so about $800 per channel/ad
Bottom line, we could run about 100 60 second educational commercials for a budget of $100,000 or about 200 30 second commercials for the same cost.
A lowest cost hybrid might be 100 30 second commercials that were both educational, but that also pointed to the RP special and also running the special once for $100,000.
Overall, we could pull this off for $100-250,000 depending on how much we wanted to saturate the airwaves and how many repeats of the ads / RP special/how long that was 30/60 min.
I think it's very reasonable to believe we could raise this amount of money in short order, but we'd have to raise it soon as slots are filling up if we want to do it over the holidays.
OK, some things people should be aware of as to buying clusters. They are the most cost effective way to buy national broadcast ads. You have to buy 30-45 days in advance and at least with this rate card, some states are not covered at all. Basically the upper mid-west has nothing. From the dakoda's to Idaho is a gap. There are a few others, looks like nothing in Nevada, Oklahoma or Maine. It does reach up to 27 million subscriber households, and 69 Million potential viewers. That's the top 57 cable networks and top 75 demographic markets. It's not everyone.
There is another rate card that is secondary and overlaps a number of channels, however it only reaches 13.8 Million households. Ads are a lot cheaper on this one. For Men's, $228 per channel/ad and Womens $182 per channel/ad. This rate card is being updated, however so expect prices to go up a little. It does broadcast in a lot of areas the other one does not.
Anyway, that should give everyone a firm idea of what it would cost. This is very doable! The hard part is lead time. We are probably going to have to make the ads or at least a sample - before major fundraising so people see what they are going to get. Then moneybomb and after we have cash in hand it's 30-45 days lead time before they run.
-t
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Verrater
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I would not run a whole bunch of 60 second spots. It seems like a bunch of 60 second spots is something the campaign would do, but on the other hand, theoretically, the revpac has money, and will choose to spend their money on tv spots.
I'd prefer the 30 minute spot be produced. 1) Produce the 30 minute spot. Everyone has input, everyone is happy. Then, after the spot is produced, try to air it.
It wouldn't cost too much to air this 30 minute commercial saturday afternoon during infomercial block.
And if you have a nice 30 minute spot, you can do things with it like putting it on a DVD and handing it out when you go door to door in the winter.
The campaign is doing a good job with short tv commercials. I think they'll continue to do a good job with commericals, and if people want more good short tv commercials, they should donate to the campaign.
But the campaign might not be prioritizing at all a 30 minute infomercial, or anything at all like that. It could be that if the grassroots doesn't make a decent enough spot, there will be no video on a dvd to go door to door with, or to play on informercial time.
I'd prefer the 30 minute spot be produced. 1) Produce the 30 minute spot. Everyone has input, everyone is happy. Then, after the spot is produced, try to air it.
It wouldn't cost too much to air this 30 minute commercial saturday afternoon during infomercial block.
And if you have a nice 30 minute spot, you can do things with it like putting it on a DVD and handing it out when you go door to door in the winter.
The campaign is doing a good job with short tv commercials. I think they'll continue to do a good job with commericals, and if people want more good short tv commercials, they should donate to the campaign.
But the campaign might not be prioritizing at all a 30 minute infomercial, or anything at all like that. It could be that if the grassroots doesn't make a decent enough spot, there will be no video on a dvd to go door to door with, or to play on informercial time.
Professor8000
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I like the way you think. You have facts and a well thought out plan. Now, all we need is to shoot this idea to someone who can put the gears in motion as to where to send the money for this, so we can snag some good slots for the holidays.
Wow, calling me in too.
I disagree with most of Nap's stuff.
I do indentify good grassroots people.
These people are doing great stuff right now. I might be missing a couple.
RP08orbust is very on top of robocalling and is very capable of helping your meetup group in smart ways with robocalling.
Dusman is developing a twitter system and the blackthisout and possibly a portal / community websites.
Shemdogg is on the ground in MA and NH and has the right idea about projects.
Justinpagewood is making great designs, is developing kits for meetups to use and has the right idea about projects.
I've given $ to 2 of them.
I noticed that you said that 1 of them is on the official campaign. You are saying this like it's a bad thing. You should be thinking of this as an opportunity to learn what you should do. I know that Steve was on this board. Who is on the official campaign?
The grassroots does have a lot of people who will work for free. Or it should. And it's a lot of effort to make a 30 minute commercial. Make the commercial, and then a chip in to air it.
If I'm a meetup, I'd want to be able to choose to air a quality TV program. I'd be reserving half hour spots in Iowa right before the caucus in hopes that this spot gets made.
So, the idea of grassroots making TV, I'm not against. At all. But the idea that the grassroots is going to bringing the 30 second message instead of the campaign I have a problem with. They're doing TV already, and they're doing a great job with it.
I support some of these ideas, such as an infomercial, because I think that if they just focus on making the thing, which is cheap, there might be useful product, and
there's no committment to spend a lot of money on airtime.
Typically, the production costs might be high. Here, anybody could do this on a modern computer. This is something that can be debated endlessly, as people here in the grassroots like to do, and everyone can feel special and important. They could be doing a blimp, you know.
We do have talented filmmakers. And collaborative ads worked well at times last year. I remember one newspaper ad from last time that was pretty much collaboratively produced, and it was considered a big win. This half hour video project could work in the same way as the full page ad.
What grassroots should be doing is the really nasty attack ads. They. just. do. them.
Ron Paul has already given an absolutely clear signal that attack Perry is the way to go.
And we can be a lot more nasty than Ron Paul can. We. just. do. them.
These would not be collaborative efforts where we vote on whether the doctor with the needle is scary enough.
I've made TV commercials, aired em. The only thing I needed help with was the betasp dub.
This was 10 years ago. Computers are much faster, much better equipped to handle video now.
There's no reason why there aren't 100s of negative ads pounding the airwaves once here, once there. The cost to make a 30 second spot is close enough to Zero.
tangent4ronpaul
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Calling you in, as you jumped on the bandwagon bashing this idea, but I believe I also praised you as to your concert project - though that may have been to someone in PM.
...it's a bad thing when someone from the campaign tries to derail a grassroots project. A very bad thing.
As to airing in states - it kind of works like the market. If you are Walmart, you order it from the factory and get a deep deep discount. If you are a smaller chain, you get it from a wholesaler and pay more, but still a lot less than retail. if your a mom and pop, you get it from a distributor and pay still more. To run an infomercial just in IA's 3 markets would cost $7,800 for half an hour. To run that same ad nationwide would cost $12,500. We have found out we don't qualify for infomercial rates because we are political. Running ad's state by state is dumb. We ran into the same thing last campaign when looking to buy a digital white pages. One state was $1,000 and the entire country was $10,000.
I do agree the campaign is producing great TV spots. They are also targeting those to early primary states and just running them there. What we are talking about doing is broadcasting to the entire country - or at least as much of it as we can reach.The ad content would also be different. The campaign isn't doing a great job of telling seniors that Paul has the only plan to save social security and the others don't. At least they don't have one out yet. Their strategy is win the early states and let the lemming factor kick in. We're trying to get the lemming to to get won over and think for themselves. Very different strategies.
-t
...it's a bad thing when someone from the campaign tries to derail a grassroots project. A very bad thing.
As to airing in states - it kind of works like the market. If you are Walmart, you order it from the factory and get a deep deep discount. If you are a smaller chain, you get it from a wholesaler and pay more, but still a lot less than retail. if your a mom and pop, you get it from a distributor and pay still more. To run an infomercial just in IA's 3 markets would cost $7,800 for half an hour. To run that same ad nationwide would cost $12,500. We have found out we don't qualify for infomercial rates because we are political. Running ad's state by state is dumb. We ran into the same thing last campaign when looking to buy a digital white pages. One state was $1,000 and the entire country was $10,000.
I do agree the campaign is producing great TV spots. They are also targeting those to early primary states and just running them there. What we are talking about doing is broadcasting to the entire country - or at least as much of it as we can reach.The ad content would also be different. The campaign isn't doing a great job of telling seniors that Paul has the only plan to save social security and the others don't. At least they don't have one out yet. Their strategy is win the early states and let the lemming factor kick in. We're trying to get the lemming to to get won over and think for themselves. Very different strategies.
-t
I think you're dealing with people who think they know what the campaign would say, and are saying what they think the campaign would say.
They trust the campaign. They're worried about another blimp. So, they're pretty much boilerplate arguing against everything.
I saw this regarding out of staters in Iowa. They would say "no out of staters in iowa" because they heard that from the official campaign. at the same time, out of staters are explicitly stating that steve told them it was ok if she came to iowa.
They're just staying on message, and it's an overall good message, to keep focused on what works, or put differently, on what the proper role and function of the grassroots should be.
Some people talk a little bit too much about phone banking and door knocking. Yes. Those things need to be done. But not really in September. And typically, the campaign coordinates that. The purpose of the meetup group is to grow the meetup group. When the campaign comes in, you want to hand the campaign as many volunteers as you can. You don't want to send 10 people out to walk neighborhoods day after day. You want a ton of volunteers when you really need them, not
a smaller number working more. And justin is developing a set of workable procedures for registration parties. We know we're going to have to do a lot of voter registration, and he's getting on top of it. Shemdoggs projects seem designed to grow the meetups, and are productive.
Ideally, we could pre-organize all the states to the specificiations of the campaign. We can set up the organizational structure, and they can move their people in, and hit the ground completely running. If I'm a RevPac, I'm going to look closely at funding projects coming out of key college towns. Ames and Iowa City to start.
There are more students at Iowa State + U Iowa than voted for Huckabee, the winner last time.
Point is, there are people who say "phone bank and door to door, phone bank and door to door" over and over. And yes, they're necessary, but that's not what you should be doing right yet.
tangent4ronpaul
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Is anyone from REVPAC reading this thread? If so, what do you guys think of the idea?
Looking over the channel listings again, for the first card there are 37 channels so we could run 6 different thirty second ads once on each, or 3 different 30 second ads twice on each plus the RP special once as well as about the same in the secondary market for about $150,000.
That would reach about 40 Million households and pretty much guarantee at least some exposure to a third of the US population. That sounds like a win to me!
They also have satellite (the dish network) that would probably do better reaching more rural / conservative voters. I need to check out that rate sheet, but there are apparently combo offers for both cable and satellite.
-t
Looking over the channel listings again, for the first card there are 37 channels so we could run 6 different thirty second ads once on each, or 3 different 30 second ads twice on each plus the RP special once as well as about the same in the secondary market for about $150,000.
That would reach about 40 Million households and pretty much guarantee at least some exposure to a third of the US population. That sounds like a win to me!
They also have satellite (the dish network) that would probably do better reaching more rural / conservative voters. I need to check out that rate sheet, but there are apparently combo offers for both cable and satellite.
-t
You are saying that there are far superior economies of scale with the national ad.
I know that you just gave the figures - 3 stations in Iowa - $7.8K - 1 channel, nationwide $12.5K.
With Iowa, I'm pretty sure you can get Saturday afternoons pretty cheap. But $2.3K for one station might seem cheap, but it doesn't compare to national.
I'd be interested in the detailed comparison of what you'd get exactly for the Iowa and what you get with the National.
If you're talking about coming up with $12.5 to air this once, well it's unlikely to really suck. And you can put the ad on a dvd.
You mention social security. We can identify seniors, right, and make sure they get the social security dvd. We hit the tv stations they watch with that message
and follow on with the dvd.
A 30 minute program is a versatile item, and one that the campaign might very well neglect.
The official campaign should spend money on the equipment, and hire people to run that equipment. One person can easily do everything, and well, with not that expensive equipment.
Anybody have any hands on experience with the sony hx9v? the point and shoot with 1080p60 ? The audio sounds compressed. But the video is phenominal.
18x zoom. Take a look at the closeup of Bono taken with the hx9v. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjO_PQ0hZuU - really phenominal video for $300
http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=JjhzTpOQHIrW0QGJpo3hDQ&ved=0CJgBEPMCMAA
Ron Paul should have a video camera of unassailable quality. This takes great 1080p60 video. Really amazing. And a huge zoom lens. The audio is compressed, and I'm looking at the Zoom Q3HD because of the superior audio. Apparently uncompressed 24/96, but I would want to look at a file first.
Canon claims 16/44.1or48 LPCM stereo, but I looked at the files, and the data isn't there. The 16/48 stereo is 1536 mbit/sec - if you look at the files from vimeo
with mediainfo or something else, you'll see that the Canon PowerShot SX230 HS
says bit rate 384 Kbps 2 channels 48 KHz 16 bits. What that tells me is that the chip is only giving out 384, not 1536. That's 1/4th. it could be 24KHz and 8 bit stereo.
or 12/32 mono, with fake stereo.
The elph 300 is even worse, as is the nikon coolpix s9100 - they're both AAC 128. That's roughly equivalent to the lowest quality mp3.
I've yet to discover the specs on the sony hx9v except that it's compressed.
tangent4ronpaul
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I brought this up pages ago but it was drowned out by the naysayers. Iowas was like 1 Mid-B market and then there were 2 smaller markets. Nationwide was in the ballpark of 142-172 markets. read market = city or region. IA has 1 million population, national reach is ~60+ million people. Looking at other options w/ potential reach of 100 Million people now.
As I've said earlier today, the rep got back with me and told me that because we are political, we don't qualify for infomercial rates. It would have to be individually negotiated with the network, but expect something between 30 and 40K.
Been looking at channel demographics now, and with seniors as well as other demographics in mind. So far, for seniors, viewership is pretty flat. The only thing I can tell you so far is that they don't watch MTV:
18-34 63%
35-54 31%
55+ 6%
As to camera's we have a number of professional filmmakers and they have their own equipment.
Also, as I understand it, Evan(?) in Alaska and his team are working on another delegate DVD for IA.
-t
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tangent4ronpaul
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Most popular channels by age bracket:
Channels most watched by 55+
CNBC 35%
Fox Sports Net 35%
HGTV 35%
Weather channel 35%
Game Show Network 36%
History 36%
National Geographic 37%
AMC 38%
HLN 38%
MSNBC 38%
CNN 40%
FOX NEWS 42%
Hallmark 46%
Golf Channel 50%
FOX Business – median age 61.9yo SUPRISE!
35-54 basically watches everything.
Channels most watched by 18-34
FX 39%
E! 45%
Comedy Central 46%
Nickelodeon 48%
Centric 49%
Cartoon Network 50%
BET (black) 53%
G4 TV 54%
Galavision 54.6%
VH1 57%
MTV 63%
Fuse 67%
Adult Swim – median age 20.7yo
Channels most watched by 55+
CNBC 35%
Fox Sports Net 35%
HGTV 35%
Weather channel 35%
Game Show Network 36%
History 36%
National Geographic 37%
AMC 38%
HLN 38%
MSNBC 38%
CNN 40%
FOX NEWS 42%
Hallmark 46%
Golf Channel 50%
FOX Business – median age 61.9yo SUPRISE!
35-54 basically watches everything.
Channels most watched by 18-34
FX 39%
E! 45%
Comedy Central 46%
Nickelodeon 48%
Centric 49%
Cartoon Network 50%
BET (black) 53%
G4 TV 54%
Galavision 54.6%
VH1 57%
MTV 63%
Fuse 67%
Adult Swim – median age 20.7yo
erowe1
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Yes. He did all 3 (or 4?) networks at prime time. And it was seen by 33 million people.
Since you were hoping to reach 40 million, you'd have to do the same thing. And even then, given the difference between the level of interest in a party primary candidate a year before the election, and the leading candidate the week before the election, I wouldn't expect more than 10 million viewers for a Ron Paul infomercial even with it being shown nationwide on 3 or 4 networks at prime time.
Of course it would be much cheaper if it were just shown on a single cable channel at 1 am in Iowa alone. But then we're not talking millions of viewers any more. We're talking thousands.
tangent4ronpaul
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Well, look at the hybrid plan. There is a lot of interest in the economy, SS, jobs, etc. and a batch of teaser/educational ads followed by the show could pay off well. Yes, 40 milion is probably a stretch - but we are trying to find primary voters and grass roots volunteers here.
Any idea how many people voted in the last primary?
-t
Any idea how many people voted in the last primary?
-t
erowe1
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Nationwide?
tangent4ronpaul
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yes
